Secret Tunnels Under Israel Reveal Intricate Threat From Gaza

[King_David]

Slipping into a tunnel under Israel’s southern border and heading toward the Gaza Strip, the scorching summer heat suddenly turns cooler and the boom of artillery fire above fades away.

The passage, built by Gaza militants to infiltrate Israel, is just high enough for a person carrying a weapon to walk through upright. Its sides and arched ceiling are made of prefabricated cement slabs. Two metal rails run along a poured concrete floor, to accommodate carts that removed dug-out earth and transported weapons, the Israeli military says.

Israel, which has acted for years against smuggling tunnels Gazans built under their border with Egypt, is now on a campaign against what it says is an unexpectedly intricate network of underground passages militants dug into Israeli territory to carry out attacks. Its three-week-old offensive in Hamas-controlled Gaza has presented an opportunity to demolish these tunnels that didn’t exist in quieter times, analysts say.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-27/secret-tunnels-under-israel-reveal-intricate-threat-from-gaza.html

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

1. It still doesn't justify Israeli murder of civilians...and children.

But I'm sure some will try.

[hack89]

2. Hamas could pull back and let the IDF destroy the tunnels

They will have to be destroyed anyway in any peace deal.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. Re-read post #1.

[hack89]

6. If the IDF has unobstructed access to the tunnels

Then no more civilians will be killed. You do agree that the tunnels must be destroyed sooner or later?

[HooptieWagon]

14. End the economic blockade...

... and the tunnels are out of business. Israel's own actions created the need for the tunnels.

[hack89]

15. Sure. Once an inspection regime is agreed to

That prevents any weapons from entering Gaza.

[HooptieWagon]

16. Good. Lets not allow weapons in Israel, either.

They only use them for terrorist attacks on women and children.

[hack89]

17. I thought you were serious about this

I see you are not. Bye

[shaayecanaan]

19. if the tunnels extend into Israeli territory

Then presumably they could be accessed...from Israel.

[hack89]

24. Two issues

1. The tunnels are usually completed without an exit into enemy territory - they are too easy to find. What they do is build the tunnel to their target but don't break through completely to the surface. When they decide to use the tunnel it takes a very short amount of time to remove the remaining earth and break through to the surface. That is what we saw with the North Koreans, who have built some of the most extensive military tunnel systems in history under the DMZ. As the South Koreans have discovered, it is very hard to find these tunnels.

2. There is a vast amount of military equipment stored in these tunnels at the Gaza end. That gear needs to be destroyed.

[shaayecanaan]

26. you're dealing with a much smaller piece of geography than the Korean peninsula

If the tunnels are close enough to the surface they can be detected with a radar survey. Even digging long ring ditches where tunnels might be would uncover them eventually.

Slow and painstaking work but preferable to the alternative. Besides hamas will only start digging again after they leave, unless they find a way to permanently keep shovels out of their hands.

[hack89]

27. Hamas could stop shooting at the IDF in Gaza

and let them destroy the tunnels. The sooner they are destroyed the sooner there will be a permanent ceasefire. Your suggestions would take months if not years and would actual give Hamas an incentive to use them before they are discovered.

[shaayecanaan]

29. maybe Hamas could offer the IDF soldiers back rubs as well

That would make for a nice invasion. Not terribly likely though.

Yes, finding the tunnels would take a while. And yes, I suppose there is the theoretical risk that they might be used in the meantime. Probably less risk than in traipsing around Gaza looking for them though.

[hack89]

32. Hamas will fight tooth and nail for the tunnels

they don't want to be put in the position of explaining to the people of Gaza why they wasted hundreds of millions on them only to have them destroyed.

Hopefully the IDF will destroy them soon and they can withdraw.

[HooptieWagon]

3. Completely ignoring the commercial reason for the tunnels...

To smuggle food, gasoline, and other commodities difficult to obtain with Israel's economic blockade on Palestine. If there was no blockade, there would be no tunnels. I wonder if the pro-Likud propagandist is going to address that?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

4. doubt that aspect will ever be raised by them

The only use for the tunnels is obviously to smuggle missiles or send people into Israel to wreck havoc if we were to believe most pro-Israel people on the topic

I would wager that if we did a comparison between the ones Hamas uses for weapons and the ones used to smuggle commercial goods then the result would skew strongly toward the commercial side(my speculation so can't provide proof its accurate.)

[hack89]

7. These are different tunnels

The smuggling tunnels go into Eygpt. These tunnels into Israel have only one purpose - terror attacks.

[HooptieWagon]

9. How do you know they have one purpose?

How many terror attacks via tunnel have occured? Why haven't Hamas invaded Israel via tunnel?

[hack89]

10. Besides the attack last week that killed three IDF soldiers?

What other purpose would the tunnels have? Can't imagine a lot of smuggling going on in an Israeli high security zone.

[HooptieWagon]

11. So, no attacks before Israel waged a holocaust on civilians.

Ya think maybe the tunnels were used for smuggling, before Israel ginned up shock and awe?

[hack89]

12. So in an IDF high security zone

Hamas has established a smuggling operation so large that they need 30 tunnels? Really?

[HooptieWagon]

13. Produce a map, lets see where the exits are.

OP describes carts on rails in the tunnels. Completely unnecessary for an attack. Combatants would be armed with small arms... shit they can carry. However, carts on rails very necessary for moving large amounts of heavy goods.... gasoline, heating oil, water, food, building supplies... stuff Israel blocks them from buying.

[COLGATE4]

18. Many of the tunnels do not yet have an exit. They

are left unfinished to prevent detection by the Israelis. When Hamas intends to carry out a strike they finish off the last few meters, creating the exit and attack. So the only way to find many of these is by finding the start of them in Gaza (which is what the iDF on the ground is doing).

[HooptieWagon]

20. If no exit, they haven't been used for a terror attack.

And don't claim they CAN'T Be found... ground penetrating radar will easily detect partially built tunnels. Sensors can detect digging, etc.
Do the tunnels pose a security risk? No question. But they are a result of Israel's own policies. So far, they are no more effective militarily than the home made rockets. Using the tunnels as a pretext to slaughter close to 1000 Palestinian civilians is disingenuous. The tunnels could easily have neen eliminated by other means not lethal to civilians. Israel is just attempting to rationalize collective punishment. Or maybe Netanyahu gets a hard-on by killing people, like Dick Cheney.

[COLGATE4]

21. I strongly suggest that you immediately contact

the Israeli authorities with your information about how the tunnels can "easily be eliminated by means not lethal to civilians". I'm sure they'd love to learn how to do it.

[HooptieWagon]

22. .

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[King_David]

23. But they do pose a risk

So they must be destroyed.

[HooptieWagon]

31. A commercial jet...

can be used as a weapon also. Did we destroy all commercial jets?

[King_David]

34. I guess the people living next to the threat

Will destroy the tunnels and attempt to limit the threat against their lives.

The airport in Hamas governed Gaza was destroyed for that reason - jets as weapons .

[King_David]

8. Those are the tunnels to Egypt

The ones to Israel have different functions .

[bemildred]

25. If the blockade were lifted, the motivation for the tunnels would be gone.

Nobody digs long, elaborate tunnels when they can just walk where they want to go.

[King_David]

28. Blockade started with rockets

Like chicken and egg .. That's the challenge.

[HooptieWagon]

30. Didn't stop the rockets, though.

So it appears the intent is not to stop rockets, but to inflict economic pain on civilians.

[bemildred]

33. How's that working out? nt