The 'occupation of Gaza' canard

[Fozzledick]

Enemies of Israel, who are seeking to justify Hamas rocket and tunnel attacks against Israeli civilians, are mendaciously claiming that Israel has continued to occupy the Gaza Strip, even after its soldiers and settlers left the Strip in 2005. They claim that because Gaza was unlawfully still occupied, despite the absence of Israeli soldiers, resistance to the occupation - including the murder of Israeli civilians - is justified as a matter of international law. This claim is wrong for several independent reasons.

First, it is never justified to target and murder enemy civilians. Even if Israel did have a military occupation, as it does on the West Bank, it would still be a double war crime to fire rockets at Israeli civilians, using Palestinian civilians as human shields. It would also be a war crime to use terrorist tunnels to murder or kidnap Israeli civilians. The only legitimate resistance to occupation is to target the soldiers who enforce the occupation.

Second, a military occupation of Gaza - as distinguished from civilian settlements - would be entirely justified, both as a matter of law and common sense, because Hamas, which controls Gaza, is at war with Israel and has repeatedly refused to make peace with the nation-state of the Jewish people. A military occupation is proper as long as a state of war exists.

Third, and even more important for any future peace, is the indisputable fact that Israel, in fact, ended its occupation of Gaza in 2005.
...
On January 25, 2006, the Palestinian Authority held elections. Gazans were free to vote and did in fact vote in large numbers for Hamas which achieved a significant political victory. But that wasn’t enough for Hamas, which conducted a bloody coup d’etat that killed numerous Palestinian civilians who were associated with the Palestinian Authority.

Hamas also resumed rocket attacks against Israeli civilians and increased their building of terrorist tunnels into Israel, which they used to kill and kidnap Israelis. It was only after these acts of war by Hamas that Israel instituted its blockade in 2007 - nearly two years after it ended its occupation. So the truth is that the blockade has not been the cause of Hamas’ rocket and tunnel attacks. The blockade has been the result of these attacks. It is an entirely legitimate defensive military response to war crimes committed by Hamas. Yet there are some - including Marc Lamont Hill and Peter Beinart, with whom I debated on CNN - who insist that Israel continued to “occupy” Gaza unlawfully between 2005 and 2007, before it instituted its blockade. It’s this kind of rigid, un-nuanced argument that makes a compromise peace so difficult.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/The-occupation-of-Gaza-canard-369370

[oberliner]

1. Author is Alan Dershowitz

For those keeping track at home.

[Warpy]

11. Thanks, it reads like something out of Propaganda Central

and I was just going to look up someone who would post such an, er, "mendacious claim" that anyone has said those unguided rockets were justified. In fact, people outside Gaza deplored them as ineffective instruments of war and a serious block to any peace process.

Odd also how Dershowitz focuses on "occupation" rather than "blockade and siege" since the latter has been true for the past seven years. Nothing has gotten into Gaza above ground without Israeli inspection and approval for 7 years. Think about that, Mr. Dershowitz, when you consider why they had to build those tunnels.

The Gazans are correct when they describe Gaza as an open aired prison, guarded and blockaded on all sides. They can't leave. They are utterly trapped there, serving life sentences caught between their own hotheads and the hell fire of a modern military campaign. It is horrible to contemplate, Mr. Dershowitz, and how would you feel were the roles reversed?

Wikipedia has a chart of rocket attacks for the year 2013. Most of those rockets landed on fields and did little to no damage. Is the leveling of homes, hospitals, mosques, and infrastructure supplying electricity and water warranted by these attacks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2013

Mr. Dershowitz, the overreaction of Israel against one of its neighbors is going to be calamitous for that country in the court of public opinion around the world. Israel is going to find itself with few supporters here and elsewhere. The damage has been done. And you are not helping by writing screeds like the one I am responding to.

[Aerows]

2. Deny people the ability

to have anything with which to build a life, enjoy life or improve their quality of life - which the blockade has intentionally done - and eventually, they will get fed up.

"If you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose."

That right there is the primary mistake that Israel has made in handling the Gaza strip blockade.

[Purveyor]

3. Well put, indeed. eom

[Aerows]

4. I'm no enemy of Israel, either

No matter what the OP tries to imply. I'm speaking up because continual injustice leads to desperation. This is nothing new - it's human nature.

"Enemies of Israel" do this, that and the other thing. I'm sick of it. I can criticize a government that is misguided without wholesale being an enemy of the state itself.

I'm so sick of that being implied. If I don't want Palestinian children dead and robbed of a childhood, well then by gosh, I despise Israel and I'm an anti-Semite.

[Fozzledick]

8. The problem is when someone condemns them for defending themselves against terrorists

then it's natural to infer that they actually want the terrorists to succeed, and the more vitriol they pour on the harder it is to escape that conclusion.

[Aerows]

12. I'm sure two year olds

are terrorists. As are 70 and 80 year olds. If two year olds and elderly people scare you and are terrorists, maybe you need to re-examine your life, because you know what that sounds like? You are frightened because they EXIST.

I don't know if you are an American or not, but we are in peril every time we go down the street due to gun nuts. Do we indiscriminately bomb neighborhoods where people are shooting at one another? No. We have a lot of problems, but we don't resort to bombing the hell out of children.

Are you an American? If so, let me know how many people in your community get gunned down on a regular basis and how scared it makes you that you need to bomb the crap out of them.

[Fozzledick]

15. That's the kind of disingenuous evasion that raises questions about your motivation.

I think you know that if we were under attack by an endless rain of artillery rockets our response would be a great deal less restrained than Israel.

[Aerows]

17. Well if I'm disingenuous

I'll take it as a compliment coming from you. It means I said something you don't have an answer for, and you need to resort to insulting my intelligence and the intelligence of the folks reading our posts.

[Fozzledick]

18. Your suggestion that Israel should just send police into Gaza to arrest Hamas proves my point.

Do you really expect anyone to take that garbage seriously?

[Aerows]

19. I wonder

if anyone takes killing children, bombing hospitals, ambulances, schools and homes as a serious step to reducing hostilities or a pathway to peace.

If so, you are definitely on your own arguing that one.

[Fozzledick]

20. I've tried being polite with you but I see it's no use.

I understand now why you've brought so much criticism on yourself. Don't try to pretend you haven't earned it.

[Aerows]

21. Well that's

very nice of you to say, Fozzledick.

[stranger81]

44. I guess if you have no intent to leave any of your adversaries alive,

it doesn't matter how much they hate you. They'll all be dead soon anyway.

[stranger81]

43. Yes, that international law garbage.

Who needs it? Not Israel.

[Purveyor]

22. Indeed. eom

[Fozzledick]

5. You really think the problem is that Gaza can't import enough rockets?

They had plenty of opportunity to live in peace before the blockade was imposed as a defensive reaction to the rocket attacks, They chose not to. This is the result.

[azurnoir]

6. umm when was that exactly? enlighten us please .......

[Aerows]

7. I must be an

"Enemy of Israel" then, if I believe that people that are repeatedly deprived of any opportunity to improve their lives are going to eventually get desperate.

Like I said, when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

That is a fundamental of human nature. Look at the timing of this, too. Right when Palestinians should be celebrating, they are in utter ruin and fear.

Every single chance at joy is being robbed of them and their children. I guess since I mentioned that, I'm one of the "enemies of Israel." Criticism of a government when criticism is DUE is not being an enemy, it's being a friend and pointing out when your friend is making a huge mistake.

[daleanime]

9. What mention of rockets was there?

Set up all the straw men you want, none of it makes actions like this right or appropriate.

[Fozzledick]

10. That's what the blockade is all about.

And the fact that the Palestinians in Gaza were just as belligerent BEFORE the blockade was imposed proves that the blockade and it's effects are not the real issue.

[Aerows]

13. If you are an American

You probably live in a community where people are killing each other every night. Do you know how we handle it? We arrest people. We don't bomb the shit out of them, deny them musical instruments, candy and try to rob them of every sliver of joy they can get out of life because their neighbors do something awful.

That is what this has come down to - LOOKING for excuses to bomb the piss out of people, reduce the amount of land they have in hopes that you can take it over completely.

Nobody is dumb enough to believe otherwise.

[azurnoir]

26. Before the blockade there was Gush Katif the block of 17 Israeli settlements occupying Gaza

the blockade started almost as soon as the settlements were evacuated, after the 2007 Hamas 'takeover' it was intensified

[Aerows]

16. Precisely

It's time to say how the cow ate the cabbage - this isn't about defense, it's about robbing people of joy so harshly that they get desperate, and then you have an "excuse" to bomb them and take their land.

[Purveyor]

23. The problem is that Gaza can't import the 'right kind' of rockets/missiles. eom

[Fozzledick]

24. Is that another vote for more violence?

Scratch the surface and find...just what's expected.

[Purveyor]

28. More violence? Indeed. Have you rejected the violence the apartheid state

is exacting on the Palestinians? Please provide a link if so.

Now as far as scratching the surface...just what are you suggesting here?

[Fozzledick]

31. I hate it when I think the worst of someone... and they go out of their way to prove me right.

[Aerows]

34. When you look for the worst in people

you typically find it, whether it is there, or not.

Interesting point you made there - finding the worst in people.

Kind of makes peace difficult, doesn't it?

[Fozzledick]

36. No need to keep belaboring the obvious - you've already proven my point.

[Aerows]

39. I will continue belaboring the obvious

Bombing hospitals, ambulances and convalescent homes is neither just nor honorable. Neither is bombing homes and killing children.

[Aerows]

30. Was there a previous vote

(or any vote) for more violence in this thread? I must have missed it. Please point out where that occurred. I'll wait.

Oh, and do you still hit your wife?

[Fozzledick]

32. There have been quite a few around here lately.

You can find the other threads on your own if you want to. I've had enough of your silly games.

[Aerows]

33. Can't say

I've enjoyed yours, either. If you expect to just bludgeon a faulty point home, expect the nail to crack and take a lot of time for you to dig it out - if you can.

[MFM008]

25. so you live in peace...........

with nothing. No jobs, no advancement, food and basic supply shortages. No freedom of movement, no fishing past 3 mile limit. mal-nourishment, substandard housing, no technology and no hope. The only guarantee is you MAY wake up alive? I think we are seeing the result of this policy.

[Fozzledick]

29. If they chose peace they wouldn't have those problems.

[Scootaloo]

40. "Peace" of course, being on the terms of the people that enacted ethnic cleansing...

And who right now are sitting on hilltops, laughing and cheering as children die, and are roaming Jerusalem in mobs screaming "death to arabs."

[newfie11]

41. Not to mention water being cut off nt

[azurnoir]

14. this started before the Hamas takeover in 2007

Remember reading about the greenhouses that the Israeli settlers graciously left when they evacuated Gaza? Well they left them after being paid a sizable sum not to destroy them, in any event we're told that the Palestinians immediately destroyed them, whether out of hate or ignorance is unknown, but that isn't quite true in fact the Palestinians put the greenhouses into production and got quite a successful harvest worth several million dollars from them so what happened? Using the rockets as a pretext Israel refused to allow the highly perishable fresh produce to leave Gaza as told here from March of 2006 (the Hamas take over was in June of 2007)

Left to Rot in Gaza

The harvest is underway inside a row of greenhouses here on the grounds of a razed Israeli settlement. But most of the tomatoes and sweet peppers, usually shipped to European markets, will rot in a nearby ravine.

"We keep getting it, but we don't know what to do with it," said Abdul Fatah al-Eilah, the greenhouse manager, as workers stacked boxes of vegetables in a storage shed while tractors towing flatbeds full of produce lined up to enter.

The main trade passage between the Gaza Strip and Israel has been closed for much of the year, despite an agreement brokered by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in November that required Israel to "ensure the continued opportunity to export." Israeli security concerns, heightened by Hamas's parliamentary victory in January and the almost daily rocket fire from Gaza, have rendered the deal largely moot.

To protect Gaza's small farmers from competition by Eilah's Palestine Economic Development Corp. and its 1,000 acres of greenhouses, the corporation is barred from selling its produce locally. But without regular access to the outside world, the corporation has had to donate some produce to local charities and dump the rest. Losses so far add up to millions of dollars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/18/AR2006031801329.html

IMO Gaza is has been and is still being punished for the settlers leaving

[Aerows]

27. Given the huge "buffer zone"

increase, I think it is abundantly clear what this is all about. Not to mention the gas reserves right off of the coast.

I was born at night - but it wasn't last night.

[azurnoir]

35. The buffer zone even prior to this extended a kilometer or more into Gaza

eating up around 25% of the arable land there, now about the gas deposits I'm not sure Israel intends to take them they were discovered more than 15 years ago and Israel has since discovered gas fields off its own waters albeit at least one extends into Lebanon's waters, what I am sure about is that Israel intends to never allow the Palestinians to develop them

lastly this time is so different the response on DU in support of the Palestinians has surprised me in a positive way, I was here during Cast Lead and do not remember it being this way

[Aerows]

38. I think the hard sell

got a little too hard and that made people suspicious. I know it made me suspicious. If you have to try that hard to convince me of something, I'm going to look into it. I did, and discovered that there was a turd under all of that delicious frosting.

When will people learn that propaganda only gets you so far.

[Scootaloo]

37. Gaza is not independent of Palestine

Palestine is occupied.
Gaza's borders - all four - are under Israeli military control. Yes, even the southwest, owing to a 2005 security agreement with Egypt - if Israel orders the border closed, Egypt closes it.
As is its airspace.
As is the sea.
As is a broad swath of territory within the strip.
And as we see now, the entire strip very quickly falls completely under said control.

Gaza is occupied. This status did not change in 2005 - Israel simply abandoned its obligations as occupier.

[intaglio]

42. Well, considering that this article is wrong in matters of fact ...

Via The Nation

Despite removing 8,000 settlers and the military infrastructure that protected their illegal presence, Israel maintained effective control of the Gaza Strip and thus remains the occupying power as defined by Article 47 (actually article 42) of the Hague Regulations

Correction mine

The Israeli have lied about "Human Shields" before, why should we give their claims any credence is beyond me.

What differentiates a "terrorist tunnel" from one used to import needed supplies.

Israeli apologists, seeking talking points from any old garbage