Philadelphia transit authority ordered to run pro-Israel group's Hitler ad

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Philadelphia transit authority ordered to run pro-Israel group's Hitler ad

Associated Press in Philadelphia
Thursday 12 March 2015 21.02 GMT

Philadelphia’s transit system has been ordered to accept provocative ads that include a 1941 photograph of Adolf Hitler with a former Arab leader after a federal judge ruled in favour of a pro-Israel group’s free-speech lawsuit.

The proposed bus ads carry a tagline saying: “Jew Hatred: It’s in the Quran”.

The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority believes the ads violate “minimal civility standards” and will consider an appeal. The Philadelphia Inquirer first reported on Wednesday’s ruling by US district judge Mitchell Goldberg.

The ad in question features a photograph of a 1941 meeting between Adolf Hitler and Haj Amin al-Husseini, described by the group as a Palestinian leader and Hitler ally.

The ads are produced by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, a New Hampshire-based group that opposes US aid to Islamic countries and has filed similar lawsuits in New York and other cities.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/12/philadelphia-transit-israel-islam-hitler-ad

[Jefferson23]

1. Pamela Geller is behind this. n/t

[azurnoir]

3. she most certainly is and another of their initiatives anti-New Israel Fund

On Sunday, I wrote, “It’s time to out the Jews who fund BDS.” And so now that is exactly what my organization, the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), is setting out to do.

We have begun a new nationwide ad campaign to expose Jewish groups and leaders who are funding Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns. It is unbelievable but true: Jews in key leadership positions in American Jewish institutions are funding and supporting the most vicious Jew-hatred campaigns; BDS (the 21st-century version of Kristallnacht) is just one of them. Our AFDI ad campaign is intended to bring public awareness to their activities and ultimately move them to stop harming the Jewish State of Israel.

The initial five ads target some of the principal Jewish organizations and philanthropists that are aiding the enemies of Israel, noting that they fund “New Israel Fund’s (BDS) Boycott, Divestment and Sanction. Stop the Jewish Destruction of Israel.” The individual ads name as BDS funders the UJA, its President Alisa Doctoroff, Carole and Saul Zabar, the Bronfman Foundation, and Edith Everett.
One ad from the AFDI campaign.



http://freedomdefense.typepad.com/

[Jefferson23]

4. Vile on steroids...she is nuts. n/t

[Israeli]

5. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

[King_David]

6. Do you think your going to score points among non-Jewish Americans by trash talking American Jews ?

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them.

Just because you believe yourself to be the "only righteous " Jew around and you think you alone are the only Jew here with a very special kinship with the non Jews does not make it acceptable to anyone to trash talk The American Jewish community.




You do understand this?

And I don't think they will accept this either....

[Scootaloo]

7. Dave, I'll leave the core of this argument to you and Israeli... but some advice?

Maybe try to sound a little less like Pam Gellar and Caroline Glick, if you're going to be upset at being associated with them. Will give you a stronger position to argue from.

[King_David]

8. Another bizarre accusation

Because you sound far worse than the Jewish extremists that are despised by the sites you belong to.

Far more right wing.

Your accusations are meaningless because we know where you are coming from

[Scootaloo]

10. Is "another bizarre accusation" just a preface to the rest of your post?

It's either that or you honestly have no idea what it is you're trying to say, and are just imagining you can actually insult me.

You can't. Sorry. I thought you would have figured this out by now.

Anyway, go to atlasshrugs, research what you find there. Compare it to your own posts. One area of interest might be Gellar's "interest" in GLBT and women's rights. Do you imagine she is genuine in her support, or is she just using hte rhetoric and manipulating the ideas in order to justify hatred of someone else?

[King_David]

13. I'm not trying to insult you,

I do not need to , your posts are public.

[Scootaloo]

15. That's clever!

I will award you a banana sticker for that!


Seriously though, examine the stuff Glick and Gellar get up to. Compare it to some of th stuff you read, even if you're too squeamish to compare it to what you post.

[King_David]

16. I don't think anyone takes your posts seriously,enjoy your 2 week stay nt

[Scootaloo]

19. I strive to not be entirely serious

After all, at the end of the day, we're all just chair-warmers flicking our fingers (or thumbs, in your case) at each other.

I'm just trying to give you some advice for your argument with Israeli, "Dave"

[King_David]

9. So you agree with "Israeli" about what she says about American Jews?

[Scootaloo]

14. What's with the scare quotes around Israeli's name, "Dave"?

And why are you asking me about Jews all of a sudden? You need to make up our mind

But since you asked? No, as stated, I don't. You should know this already Dave, I don't believe that blanket statements against whole ethnic groups are ever correct, nor appropriate.

However, I'm willing to extend Israeli the benefit of the doubt, to see where she's coming from, if there were some missed qualifiers in there. 'Cause hey, a point could be made in this regard - Baruch Goldstein was from Brooklyn, for an easy example. i think Israeli may be getting at extremism being imported from the US to Israel.

[King_David]

18. It's easy to give a pass when they talking about Anerican Jews ,

Imagine if someone said the same about American blacks or American Muslims or American Gays ?

[Scootaloo]

20. Not a "pass" Dave

Benefit of the doubt. meaning, I'm familiar enough with Israeli's writing style and somewhat aware of her beliefs, and am willing to see what, exactly, she meant by an odd comment.

But then maybe she'll do a "Dave" and refuse to be "interrogated"

[Israeli]

22. Good question Scoot ...

...the answer is obvious ...he doesnt believe I'm Israeli .
I dont fit his stereotype .

As for .. " i think Israeli may be getting at extremism being imported from the US to Israel. "

Most of our extremists have been imported from the US ...most , not all .

Not surprising really ...most of our immigrants are from the US ... most are motivated by their religious believes .

[Scootaloo]

23. So you weren't meaning that ALL American Jews bear the responsibility?

[King_David]

29. You hoping that's true nt

[Israeli]

65. of course I was not ....

...I thought that was perfectly obvious .

I was referring to those behind that ad and against the New Israel Fund , in other words Right wing American Jews .

[King_David]

30. Of course in your mind you are not the stereotype

And in your mind you are one of very few righteous Jews around and in your mind you almost singularly are able to get along and mingle with non Jews and be accepted when the rest of us are not.

[Scootaloo]

31. Wow. Look at all those words you're putting into Israeli's mouth

Not a one of them actually said by Israeli, of course.

[guillaumeb]

39. When you respond to Israeli's post:

are you reading the entire post or merely the signature line?

The post reads:
Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

The signature line reads: "there are no legal settlements."

I am speculating now, and I do not know you nor have I read all of you posts, but I think the abovementioned statement is the crux of your disagreement with Israeli. What is written by Israeli does not matter because the settlements represent the greater Israel that many, but not all Israelis feel represents the true vision of Israel.
Any deviation from the greater Israel fantasy must be met with anger and condemnation.

When you responded:
"And in your mind you are one of very few righteous Jews around and in your mind you almost singularly are able to get along and mingle with non Jews and be accepted when the rest of us are not."
I feel this is very illuminating. I do not get a sense of a "righteous person" from what Israeli writes, but a sense of one who recognizes that there are legitimate differences of opinion that are not based on anti-Semitism. I am a Christian and have Jewish and Muslim friends and acquaintances. I try to judge people by their actions. I have had religious discussions with Muslims and Jews and find that most people do recognize that the three Abrahamic religions are all branches of the same root.

If I disagree with someone here I do not do so because the person is a Jew, or Muslim, or other faith, or non-believer, but because I have a different opinion.

[King_David]

40. Do you think it's an acceptable comment to broadbrushing the entire American Jewish people like that

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Imagine if someone said that about American Muslims that "the Boston Bomber was a product of the American Muslim communites culture ",it would be considered vile islamaphobia , and rightly so.

[guillaumeb]

47. I will suggest an alternate reading, based on my exposure to

Israeli's posts:

When Israeli wrote: "We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them", I see two possible interpretations.

1) "the American Jewish community", or AJC, refers to ALL Jews who comprise the community, or

2) only those Jews who produced them.

The first interpretation sounds like the entire AJC is being labeled. The second interpretation refers to those member of the AJC who produced and/or supported them.

Unless I see or you can produce other examples of Israeli attacking entire groups I will give the benefit of the doubt and my choice in this case is #2. I side with Israeli here.

And no, broad brushing is not my debating style. It is, in my opinion, an intellectually dishonest way of putting an opponent on the defensive.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

90. I'm an American Jew and I didn't read Israeli's comment that way.

Context and history are very important, Dave.

[Israeli]

67. Always guillaumeb....

Ref :

" Any deviation from the greater Israel fantasy must be met with anger and condemnation. "

or accusations of anti-Semitism.

It goes like this over here .....you are either pro settlements or anti settlements , pro occupation or anti occupation , depending if you are Right or Left , or as we define it ...Blue for Israel Proper ...Orange for the greater Israel fantasy followers .
If your for the status quo you are Centralist ....in other words doesnt care either which way .

[guillaumeb]

73. There is much the same division here in the US

No matter the issue, it seems that there can be no middle ground for too many. In Israel the Palestinians/Arabs are seen as the problem while in the US the non-whites are seen as the problem.

Your words:
" Any deviation from the greater Israel fantasy must be met with anger and condemnation. "

the fantasy is just that. One cannot take away all the usable land from people who had lived on the land for many thousands of years without some reaction from the people. When I hear talk of a "birthright" or "land promised by God" I am hearing fantasy history.

But the continual occupation is not good for the Israeli economy and not good for the Israeli people. Continuous war is slowly destroying the US economy and it will do the same in Israel.

I am thinking from your writing that you live in Israel and the problem for you is much "closer" than for those of us in the US. I also know from my reading that people in Israel are divided on the settlement issue. The problem in the US is that AIPAC has much support among US politicians from both major parties.

[Israeli]

66. I get along just great ...

....with " non Jews " KD , of course most of the " non Jews " I know are arabs .

My apologies if that bothers you but its the environment that I was born into .

[King_David]

71. Which had nothing to do with what I wrote but I'll answer:

So what ? Of course you think you're somehow unique .

Plenty of Jews have Arab friends in Israel especially In the Gay community

[Scootaloo]

78. Well, what you wrote had nothing to do with what Israeli said, so that seems fair

[Israeli]

11. Was Mosby trying to score points by trashing Russian Jews ????

NT.

[King_David]

12. We talking about what you wrote,

On an American website about American Jews.

Do you see any one defending this disgusting post of yours bigoted against American Jews in general ?

Anyone at all ?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. Are you chomping at the bit to excommunicate israeli, dave?

Or perhaps you will tell her she can't speak her mind in I/P?

[King_David]

33. Think it's acceptable to talk about all American Jews like that ?

I won't be answering most of your posts .

And unlike you btw, Israeli is very much involved in this struggle .... She did not adopt another people's cause and make it here prime number one life's focus.

[azurnoir]

34. guess you missed this part of Israeli's post

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[King_David]

35. That's irrelevant to the Blatant anti Jewish Bigotry in this post :

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Even when it's broadbrushing Jews.

[azurnoir]

36. Are you comparing Israeli to Gilad Atzmon even rhetorically without expressly saying it?

you keep going on about her "anti-Jewish bigotry aka antisemitism

[King_David]

38. No idea what that question even means,

You may think it's acceptable to say :

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

But myself being a member of the ethic group in question, I think it's class A bigotry against my people .

Are you going to say that that is an OK thing to say about American Jews?

[azurnoir]

41. look at the entire comment it gives light to what is meant rather than what is claimed as meaning

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[King_David]

42. So you think it's acceptable to Broadbrush the entire American Jewish people

And that is not bigotry?


If someone said "The Boston Bombers were products of the American Muslim community,we owe so much to them " that would be the worst kind of islamaphobia but because the post was about Jews that's ok with you?

Okay thanks for this clarification. Now we know.

[azurnoir]

43. who is we? what do we know? No one was broadbrushed the comment was rhetorical in nature

I'm editing in the comment so it is clear what is being spoken of here

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[King_David]

44. Yea sure it was...

As long as the bigotry it was aimed at Jews a minority ethnic group it somehow acceptable?

Good to know , thanks for your view.

[azurnoir]

45. Are you accusing me of antisemitism ? sure sounds like it YES or NO or apologize NOW

Heres the comment again so reader can decide for them selves

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[King_David]

46. Accusing you of defending a bigoted statement agains American Jews

And somehow you believe yourself an arbiter of what is or isn't bigotrd against another people .

If someone said :

We owe so much to them and to the American Muslim community that produced them .
Same American Muslim community that produced The Boston Bombers.

That would be viewed as extremely islamaphobic , and rightly so...

Now your defending this statement:

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Your defending a statement of bigotry against American Jews , a minority group.

And I've had enough of this sickening topic and defense of the indefensible.




Bye

[azurnoir]

48. Are you accusing me of antisemitism yes or no? you said I found bigotry against Jews acceptable

Here is the comment you paraphrase to fit dubious claims

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

and here is your comment aimed at me

Star Member King_David (11,320 posts)
44. Yea sure it was...




As long as the bigotry it was aimed at Jews a minority ethnic group it somehow acceptable?

Good to know , thanks for your view.
הַסְבָּרָה? hasbará, "explaining

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post48

[King_David]

50. Your still defending that repugnant bigoted statement.

And somehow you believe yourself an arbiter of what is or isn't bigotrd against another people .

If someone said :

We owe so much to them and to the American Muslim community that produced them .
Same American Muslim community that produced The Boston Bombers.

That would be viewed as extremely islamaphobic , and rightly so...

Now your defending this statement:

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Your defending a statement of bigotry against American Jews , a minority group.

And I've had enough of this sickening topic and defense of the indefensible.




Bye I will not continue this ugliness.

[azurnoir]

52. why don't you post the entire comment, instead of that cherry picked sentence is there a reason?

here once again and IMO you owe Israeli an apology too

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[King_David]

54. What a disgusting comment about Jews

Imagine if such was said about Muslims?


If they said :

We owe so much to them and to the American Muslim community that produced them .
Same American Muslim community that produced the Boston Bimbers.

And I never thought anyone would ever defend such blatant bigotry .

Even Scootaloo recognized it for the bigotry it is .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post14

And your still defending this anti Jewish bigotry ?

[azurnoir]

55. the point you think you make actually ponts out what Israeli was really saying

that because one poster made a derogatory comment about a Jewish politician's Russian root's does not it make it okay to same the same about American Jews and then goes on to point out that in reality all Rightwingers are the same no matter where they come from

and I'll add I agree whether it be Canada, America, Australia, or even Israel actually anywhere on the globe

[King_David]

56. What a fantastical stretch

But no that was not it at all....

And now I have definitely had enough of this uglyness in this thread.

[azurnoir]

57. Not really not at all in fact and I am not the one hurling vile accusations at others am I?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

60. Once again dave gets schooled and doubles down

on baseless accusations.

Shameful.

[azurnoir]

49. you hurl vile false accusation at me and then run away? After cherry picking a single sentence from

a comment that said exactly the opposite of what you claim ?

[King_David]

51. Cherry picking ? Peleeze , if it were said about any other group such as Muslims and not Jews ....

And somehow you believe yourself an arbiter of what is or isn't bigotrd against another people .

If someone said :

We owe so much to them and to the American Muslim community that produced them .
Same American Muslim community that produced The Boston Bombers.

That would be viewed as extremely islamaphobic , and rightly so...

Now your defending this statement:

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Your defending a statement of bigotry against American Jews , a minority group.

And I've had enough of this sickening topic and defense of the indefensible.

[azurnoir]

53. yes cherry picking very much so how many times do you wish me to post the comment in it's entirety?

. Pamela Geller and ...

....Caroline Glick about as nuty as it gets Jefferson.

We owe so much to them and to the American Jewish community that produced them .
Same American Jewish community that produced Kach .

Mosby thinks to blame Avigdor Lieberman for his Russian roots .
Therefore is it okay to blame Pamela Geller and Caroline Glick ,Baruch Goldstein and Baruch Marzel for their American roots ??

Right wing fascists are the same the world over ...does not matter which religion they follow or in which country they originated .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497258#post5

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

63. Thank you. Shine the hard light if day

on the fake outrage machine.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

58. Don't answer any of my posts if they hurt you so much.

And I find it comically sad that you are still thumping the bogus argument that unless you are a Jew, Muslim, Israeli or Palestinian that one can't express their opinion on a Democratic message board.

I don't take too kindly to edicts, fatwas, or jihadi tantrums.

[Israeli]

68. Sure looks that way RDO ....

...but I'm not paying him the slightest bit of attention

[Ken Burch]

84. Why are you trying to silence "Israeli"? Why are you obsessed with preventing open debate?

She wasn't "trash talking the American Jewish community" and you know it.

And she doesn't gang-up with non-Jews against Jews-it's just that you yourself aren't entitled to claim to speak for the American Jewish community(if for no other reason than that you're Canadian).

Dissent is not disloyalty.

And the fact is, the "Grand Mufti" has been dead since 1973.

It's totally unfair to demonize the Palestinian Muslims of today because one man, a man who's been worm food for forty-one years, made a bad choice of allies seventy-three years ago.

Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust. Only dead Europeans are responsible for that.

And even though Israel's existence(within the pre-1967 lines)is justified, the Holocaust doesn't justify anything the Israerli government does in the West Bank or to Gaza. In those places, the issue is Palestinians not wanting to be dispossessed and driven into exile, not bigotry. It serves no purpose and achieves no legitimate goal to claim Palestinians are driven solely by bigotry. any group anywhere else who had been treated by any political/military entity as Palestinians have been treated by the Israeli government would have resisted that treatment just as Palestinians have. You don't have to be a bigot to fight against being driven off your ancient land or forced to live under military occupation, for God's sakes.

Oppression on one continent doesn't justify inflicting oppression on a different people living somewhere else.

[Jefferson23]

21. I can only imagine how infuriating it is to know how the "special" relationship

the US and the Israeli government have that centers around a strategic alliance
and AIPAC..woohoo. The alleged help you receive has cost lives, both Palestinian
and Israeli Jews., but no biggie. The Palestinians can survive in Bantustanville and
take their repressed life and like it!

Right winged fascists are the same everywhere, we have ours..one was POTUS
for 8 long years. Dumb neocons, they're driving themselves crazy right now
as Obama pushes back on their lunacy with Iran.

It is amusing to me how some members here believe they can tell who is
and who is not Jewish. You have to laugh, it is right out of the play book.
I would not waste my time if I were you on their posts..but that's just me.

[whathehell]

59. Who is Kach?

[Jefferson23]

62. Kach and Kahane Chai

Kach Hebrew: כ"ך? was a far-right political party in Israel. Founded by Rabbi Meir Kahane in the early 1970s, and following his Jewish nationalist ideology (subsequently dubbed Kahanism), the party entered the Knesset following the 1984 elections after several electoral failures.[1] However, it was barred from participating in the next election in 1988 under the revised Knesset Elections Law banning parties that incited racism. After Kahane's assassination in 1990, the party split, with Kahane Chai (Hebrew: כהנא חי?, lit. Kahane Lives) breaking away from the main Kach faction. The party was also barred from standing in the 1992 election, and both organisations were banned outright in 1994. Today both groups are considered terrorist organisations by Israel,[2] Canada,[3] the European Union[4] and the United States.[5] The groups are believed to have an overlapping core membership of less than 100 people.[6][7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kach_and_Kahane_Chai

[whathehell]

64. Than you

for all that detailed.information. I appreciate it.

[Israeli]

69. Kach are still very much alive ....

their party Yachad are running at around 5 seats in the polls .

see :

http://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbis-throw-weight-behind-far-right-yachad-party/

[whathehell]

72. Okay, thanks. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

76. While there are some Jewish-Right extremists in America, there are certainly not typical of

American Jewish opinion. For example the Anti-Defamation League explicitly and strongly condemns Geller and her gang , and similar groups:

http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/anti-muslim-bigotry.html#.VQXhDRFybhk

[Israeli]

85. honestly LeftishBrit ...

I would not know .

I have never been to america.... I have however been in Hevron and the area around Hevron.

Its a hotbed of hate .

The one thing that strikes you most as a Hebrew speaker is the lack of Hebrew and the use of english with an american accent .

Most Jewish residents of Hevron are American ...most are followers of Kach .

Two reports worth reading :

http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=68228

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/03/hebron-fund-israeli-settlers-tax-exempt-irs-avaaz

[LeftishBrit]

86. Can certainly imagine that around Hevron there are plenty of haters; ideological RW-settler types

I suppose a lot of them would be American; but not typical of Americans, Jewish or otherwise (I am not American but do have some relatives and other contacts there)

[Israeli]

87. Not " typical of Americans, Jewish or otherwise " ...

You are living in cloud coo koo land LeftishBrit.

The Hevron settlers are classic typical Right wing Kach Americans .

The same classic typical Right wing Kach Americans that supported Yigal Amir .

So where did we get this murderous gene from ??

America or Russia ?

Maybe we are no better than any society that basis itself on racist supremacy ???

[LeftishBrit]

88. Huh?

I was not saying that they weren't American.

But seriously do you think that most Americans support Kach, or that this is specificallythe case for most American Jews (of whom 69% chose Obama over Romney)?

Perhaps you are intending to say, 'Most far-RW Hevron settlers are American Jewish immigrants', but it sounds as though you are saying 'Most American Jews are far-RW', which is clearly not the case.


'So where did we get this murderous gene from ??

America or Russia ?'


Both, I'd say. And from being part of the human race, with all its faults and failings.

Mark Twain once said, 'Jews are members of the human race; worse I can say of no man'. He was right. It applies, of course, to every ethnic group.

[Israeli]

91. " But seriously " ...

" do you think that most Americans support Kach " .....no I dont LeftishBrit.
I seriously doubt that " most Americans " have any idea what Kach is all about .

" Perhaps you are intending to say, 'Most far-RW Hevron settlers are American Jewish immigrants', but it sounds as though you are saying 'Most American Jews are far-RW', which is clearly not the case. "

I'm not " intending " to say .... " 'Most far-RW Hevron settlers are American Jewish immigrants' " ,
they are .. its an indisputable fact .

As far as i understand most American Jews voted for Obama .. therefore they cannot be "far-RW"
.....most of the Hevron " settlers " have dual nationality ....who do you think they voted for ??...in the American elections that is ...not ours ... ??

probably the best news of this election is that Yachad never made the threshold and that Yisrael Beiteinu came close to being irrelevant .

" 'So where did we get this murderous gene from ??

America or Russia ?'

" Both, I'd say. And from being part of the human race, with all its faults and failings. "

and both I would agree with ...being an atheist I blame religion ...

Mark Twain once said, 'Jews are members of the human race; worse I can say of no man'. He was right. It applies, of course, to every ethnic group.

As long as it applies to the Palestinians to LeftishBrit.

[LeftishBrit]

92. Of course it also applies to the Palestinians.

I always object when people imply that the Palestinians don't deserve a state/ are an untrustworthy group/ have a 'culture of death/ need not be regarded as civilians because (less than half in fact) voted for Hamas/ any of the other canards.

No group should be broadbrushed or demonized.

[Israeli]

93. sure you do LeftishBrit ......

Your stance against shira stands out like a shining star .

[Scootaloo]

24. "Stop the Jewish Destruction of Israel"?

Uhhhhh...

someone should have a word with their editor, 'cause, as-written, that line asserts Jews are destroying Israel. And that hashtag doesn't help. "Jewicidal" isn't something you want to use to refer people to your organization.

[King_David]

25. Yep disgusting

[Scootaloo]

26. The sign?

[King_David]

27. Was agreeing with you

[Scootaloo]

28. Careful, you might accidentally take me seriously

And then I'd have to interrogate you or something.

[LeftishBrit]

89. Agree

The attitude of the extreme Israeli and pro-Israeli Right to left-wing Jews sometimes isn't as far off a form of anti-Semitism as it might be. Isi Leibler once accused us of having the 'Jew flu'!

[blm]

2. Run a photo of Hitler and Bush family patriarch. Wouldn't that be more appropriate?

.

[Scootaloo]

17. Given that Grandaddy Bush held a position of power, as did his descendants? Yep

Haj Amin al-Husseini was a deposed exile with no temporal power by the time he reached Berlin.

It always amuses me when people try to use the guy to smear Palestinians, too. it demonstrates a profound ignorance of history when they do it.

[guillaumeb]

37. What Quran did they read?

The Quran teaches that the three Abrahamic faiths are true expressions of the word of God. All three are to be respected. Some Muslims interpret the Quran to justify intolerance and violence, as do some Jews and Christians.


In the Qur'an there are many references to the Jewish and Christian Holy Books. In fact the Qur'an addresses Christians and Jews in terms of the Book: O People of the Book! (5:68 AYA).

God's Mission For The People of the Book

Christians and Jews are mentioned in the Qur'an as the custodians of scripture: For to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book (5:47 AYA/44 MP). God gave the scripture to the Christians and Jews so that they could make known to the whole world and every nation the true knowledge of God: And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it (3:187 AYA). Some of the Jews and Christians fulfilled this mission, others did not. Just as there are faithful and unfaithful Muslims so too the Qur'an distinguishes between the faithful and the unfaithful Christians and Jews.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/onbible.htm

[Aerows]

61. I don't know to much about Caroline Glick

But I do know that Pamela Geller isn't playing with a full deck.

[Israeli]

70. Time you started to learn ....

....here is a great place to start , her own website :

http://carolineglick.com/

[Mosby]

74. some links for you

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/russian-immigrants-have-pushed-israel-to-the-right

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/17/israel-soviet-immigrants-transform-country

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/02/168457444/on-multiple-fronts-russian-jews-reshape-israel

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/politics/60189-150206-who-will-inherent-lieberman-s-russian-vote

[Aerows]

80. I didn't see Caroline Glick as the author of those articles

I also find the premise of them puzzling. Is this about something else other than this subthread?

[Aerows]

79. Oh.

Another one that is nuttier than a pecan pie in a peanut factory.

[LeftishBrit]

77. You haven't missed much; she is NUTS

Slightly more superficially respectable than Geller, but a similar type in attitudes.

[LeftishBrit]

75. As I said on another thread...

how can buses be forced to carry hate-messages?

Pam Geller is a true hate-merchant (she is also a sponsor of the English Defence League in the UK).

She hates Muslims first and foremost, but seems to hate everyone who disagrees with her; and left-wing Jews hold a pretty high place in her demonology. Her vile comments about the New Israel Fund spurred me to donate more than I was donating already.

We actually had a slightly parallel bus situation in London, not with Islamophobia, but with homophobia; and I am happy to say that the court judgement went in the other direction from the one here. A Christian-Right organization tried to get the London buses to bear messages supporting 'reparative therapy': 'Not gay. Ex-gay and proud of it!', etc. This was too much even for the Tory Mayor of London, Boris Johnson; and he banned the adverts. The organization took him to court, and lost.

[Jefferson23]

81. Does the UK have hate speech laws?

To give you an idea of how free speech like Pam Geller's works:

Frank is an adamant defender of free speech, and was one of only three House members to vote against barring the horrendously antigay Westboro Baptist Church from protesting at military funerals.

“It was me and Ron Paul and one other member,” he said of the vote in the House to defend the free speech rights of the church members who’ve threatened in recent days to protest at the funerals of the victims of the Newtown school shooting. “The test of free speech to me is whether you support the right of people to say vicious things you strongly disagree with.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/barney-frank-retirement-prostitution-antonin-scalia_n_2338055.html

This happened in NYC too:

snip* The MTA said the ads violated its “no demeaning” language policy. But a judge ruled that rejecting the ads violated Geller’s First Amendment rights.

“If you read the court decision on this, our hands are tied,” said MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/shocking-anti-islam-ad-campaign-okd-mta-article-1.1945174

[LeftishBrit]

82. We do; though I don't think these were explicitly used in the London bus incident

I think Johnson and a lot of Londoners just didn't want the city buses to be used for offensive messages. Maybe hate-speech laws would have been invoked if the fight had gone further.

As regards free speech: the problem IMO is that if it's on a bus or other form of public transport, the passengers have no choice but to be linked to a mobile hate-advert. People may arguably have a right to hateful speech, but not to (literally) drag me along with it.

[Jefferson23]

83. Yes and those bus routes may be the only ones they can use. Yet, in the long run,

best not to be afraid of these messages, and there are ways to counter them as
opposed to shutting it all down. Tempting, but if you have enough money and power
a countered view point can be shut off too...and we don't want that.