LGBT Community In Iraq Face Total Hell

[MNBrewer]

http://www.davidmixner.com/2012/09/lgbt-community-in-iraq-face-total-hell.html#more

WARNING: Graphic images at the link could be very upsetting to some, like me, for example.

[MADem]

1. Don't pin this on Iraq alone--it is a disturbing cultural issue and it is a problem in that

region of the world, particularly in areas where religious influences of the fundamental sort hold sway.

I think Egypt is going to get ugly in future. Iran is already ghastly--they hang children for being gay.

[MNBrewer]

2. This is an article about the treatment of GLBT people in Iraq

I realize the whole muslim world is lousy with gay murders.

[MADem]

3. I know--but the issue is way bigger than just Iraq. It's a real problem.

Iran is BRUTAL, and to children, even.

I really think that being gay in many countries--like Iran, Iraq, and SA, for example--is a life-risking enterprise. I think people in that circumstance should be granted refugee status in Europe, USA, Australia, Asia, where laws guaranteeing basic human rights will be upheld.

This idiotic idea that "murdering all the gays will make 'it' go away" is just beyond stupid, as well as horrific.

[okasha]

15. Don't forget Uganda,

which is not only not Muslim but whose government is closely affiilated with the American Dominionist "Family."

[MNBrewer]

16. The situation in Uganda has been extensively discussed in this forum

Fortunately for the GLBT people there, the Kill the Gays bill hasn't become law, yet. We can also include Nigeria, which is at least partly muslim as well as christian.

Africa and the Middle East are cesspools of homophobia, largely. South Africa and Turkey are somewhat different. Israel has virulent homophobes in the ultra-right factions but at least offers its GLBT citizens some protections, not afforded elsewhere in the region.

[MADem]

17. Uganda is predominantly Christian. Only ten to twelve percent of the population there is Muslim.

Your facts are not in order.

[MNBrewer]

18. I was referring to other nations that are not part of the "Middle East"

My facts are perfectly in order, not that it matters.

[MADem]

19. Well, since I wasn't talking to you (my reply was to okasha--not you) I'd say you've

just stepped in it a bit with that retort.

It really helps to follow the thread.

You have a nice day now.

[xchrom]

4. But they're FREEEEE!

Free to be murdered by their culturally insecure neighbors.

[MNBrewer]

5. Reminds me of when the Nazi prison camps were liberated

But the queers had to remain imprisoned because they were in the camps "legitimately". We've mostly gotten beyond that now, some 70 years or so after the fact. Islam will keep GLBT people in terror for much longer, I think.

[pinto]

12. I think we and they will get beyond it, eventually. Look at these memorials, many set in the 80's.

And many in towns that held holocaust concentration camps. I think the trend toward social equality is inevitable for gays, women, ethnic minorities, religious minorities, non-religious minorities, etc. Ironically, given the focus today on a bizarre anti-Islam internet video, the internet will be a big player in the move towards equality, imo.

http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/holocaust/ho08.html



1984 - Mauthausen
Since 1984, memorials to homosexual victims of the Nazi regime have appeared in various cities and memorial sites at former concentration camps. Former concentration camp Mauthausen got the first monument acknowledging gay prisoners in 1984. This was possible because the control of the site was with the Ministry of Interior, not the various survivor groups, which would have objected.



1985 - Dachau
The survivor groups prevented a similar plaque from being mounted in Dachau for ten years. In 1985, on the 40th anniversary of the liberation of the camp, gay and lesbian activists staged a demonstration - angering the organizers, but supported by the public. By now, they have gotten used to the gay participation in these yearly commemorative events, and the gay and lesbian ceremonies are announced in the official programme.



1985 - Neuengamme
Memorial to homosexual victims at Neuengamme concentration camp. One hundred homosexuals were imprisioned at Neuengamme. At least 33 of these men lost their lives. The exact count is probably much higher.

<more at link>

http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/holocaust/ho08.html

[Old Union Guy]

20. Very good, but remember one other thing ...

In the era when the Nazis were sending gays to the camps, all the "good guy" countries had similar policies.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. The allies liberated all the others from camps, they moved the gay people to prisons

That's what the United States did. Yep.

[pinto]

22. Yeah, the Allies acquiesced to Paragraph 175, which the Federal Republic of Germany upheld.

Wasn't till the 90's that Paragraph 175 was stricken entirely from the legal codes.

[Plantaganet]

6. Religion is the problem.

No surprise there. In countries where religion is more fanatical, our people suffer more.

[mitchtv]

7. what size country would we need to give sanctuary to the world's Gays?

too bad it's all taken already.

[msongs]

8. so much for the religion of peace nt

[MNBrewer]

9. It IS a religion of peace, as in "Rest in peace"

for GLBT people, anyway.

[Fearless]

10. More likely rest in pieces. n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. No one died to create " an open and free society" in Iraq.

>>>So hard to believe that over 5,000 American citizens died to create an open and free society in Iraq.>>>

They may have believed that lie, and they may have thought they were doing that but they were in reality dying to secure a second term for Bush, Jr. and to secure US access to Iraq oil. Round-up of lgbts is an intended or unintended( it's not, at this time, entirely clear) secondary consequence. But certainly a PREDICTABLE consequence. No?

Sorry... if I have to choose between an Iraq under Saddam ( w. live, generally tolerated, gay people) and systematically murdered gays, a Bush second term, and US companies w. low-cost, profitable access to Iraqi oil, I gotta choose Saddam.


So where the F is "our" media? Where are "our" elected officials?

K and R

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. Kick because this is fucking disgusting. The Iraq "government" is a USA puppet.

Everyone on planet Earth w. an IQ above 75 knows this.

If it is "turning over the names of lgbts " to the militias " so that they can be liquidated, it is doing so because it is thusly enabled by the US Govt'.

So, I ask you: where does the responsibility for these murders lie?

[dickthegrouch]

14. How can we teach Gays to name their oppressors?

If the suspected gays are being asked to name other gay or suspected gay people, they should name every homophobic cleric, politician, prosecutor, and police chief they can think of. When the oppressors start having to defend themselves, things might change.