About the U.S. Military Code of Dress

[ancianita]

Link to tweet

While we get distracted with tweet fighting over "both sides do it" politics, both sides DO do it when they gender discriminate.

See the standard mess hall dinner dress here?

Making gender code dress "standard" doesn't make it right.

It's a distinction with a difference. Dress that disables equal freedom of movement standardizes INequality of performance.

The disabling of women by any other means -- clothing, bound feet, high heels, poorer quality clothing design, etc. -- is the same mentality that disables people of color's lawful representation -- crippling, cheating, enforced impoverishment, enforced consent, then calling them inferior -- is the male issue across the planet. Of course, as with racism, they can't say any of that.

I realize it's not always christian, but was just responding to a comment in this particular context. In male run religions it's their issue (called 'culture,' 'tradition,' or any other cover name) -- to 'declare,' 'name,' 'brand,' then dress code half of the population to publicly mark them as spiritually inferior -- across continents. Not all and not always, of course, but enough to maintain gender hierarchy.

The ugly truth is that present 'systems' of governance of bodies (enforced free labor and fucking) without their consent ("Control your women." "Rule of thumb: keep them in hand, rein them in. Make them love their masters" ) are the old school illegitimate systems of forced male supremacy, forced on those who won't kill them in self defense, but run, instead. That armed women in the military are still raped tells us all we need to know about males who groom and train each other to not tolerate equality. Force and death threat maintain dominance.

The US Military should be disgusted to carry such Iron Age baggage in the 21st Century.

I doubt that male brass (or SECDEF Austin) will change the gender inequality in the military.
Women and their 'allies' in the military will have to change it along with the UCMJ.

I picture a President Harris, CiC, having her Secretary of Defense, a former female general, order an all-forces stand down order to get to the bottom of sexist practices, policies and unreported crimes.

[niyad]

1. Wish I could rec plus several gazillion! Thie issues that you bring up do not receive anywhere

near the attention they deserve. The clothing of the upper class women in GB, for example, nearly forty pounds of fabric, made rapid movement impossible. The raging hysteria over bloomers. Over women in trousers, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum. . All outrage because women could finally move, run.

Thank you so much for beginning this discussion. I am looking forward to responses.

[ancianita]

2. Photos of military dress of females in the Israeli military would be good to see, too.

[LiberalFighter]

3. Makes absolutely no sense for anyone to be attired in a dress for the military.

For any reason.

[qazplm135]

4. So the Army gives women the choice

Of slacks or skirt.

In my experience, most women pick the skirt.

It should be about women having choice and freedom, not that they should never look even a tiny bit different from men.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

5. The Air Force does as well

They changed their policy last year. Either the picture is an older one, or the women in it chose to wear the skirt.

[link:https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/08/05/say-goodbye-to-the-floor-length-skirt-air-force-now-allows-women-to-wear-pants-with-mess-dress/|]

[ancianita]

6. By all appearances a choice seems fine if men can have the same choice.

The question I'd think they both would ask is, why is there not a choice for men.
Another question: Why would different dress be "standard."
Another question to men and women: if there were a sudden attack, who'd be better prepared in dress for evasion and battle movements.

The military doesn't run on polls of its troops, so the decision has been made somewhere. And that decision should not be a secret to a multi-gender public.

[qazplm135]

10. You aren't wearing your dress uniform

in a combat zone. And the male version is no more practical for that possibility. It's stiff, tight, and heavy.

[ancianita]

11. I know that. What if a non combat zone is attacked, is the question.

Stiff, tight and skirty might work even less.

[qazplm135]

14. What if aliens invade?!

If Colorado Springs is attacked, I'm guessing we will have enough warning to change into fatigues. What, you think they have their weapons under the dinner table?

[ancianita]

15. Haha okay, fine. On a daily basis I'd call one kind of dress 'one less thing'.

[CrispyQ]

9. Do men get to choose a skirt?

I know, I know, but recently there was an FB post asking why gender neutral clothing always looks like men's clothing. I thought it was a valid question. That said, I hate dresses. I'll never wear a dress again.

[ancianita]

12. Yeezy does -- Givenchy! So does Vin Diesel.

[quaint]

7. My USAF sergeant granddaughter wears dress blue pants.

[ancianita]

8. By choice? Or by dress standard for both genders?

[quaint]

13. I don't know but plan to find out.

[qazplm135]

16. I'm confused as to why

women having MORE choice than men is a problem.

[ancianita]

17. More choice isn't better if the "choice" repeats a gendered civilian look

that distracts from military focus on order, unity, uniformity and equality in the military context.

No matter the gender there is utilitarian clothing and there is style clothing. If women in the military want a gendered skirty look, fine. If a gendered appearance doesn't affect their performance or how they're esteemed by peers, fine. But I don't think gendered outer clothing, even for parade dress, should exist.

How women dress when they're on leave is, of course, their choice.

[qazplm135]

18. the choice

allows women to either embrace OR reject that gendered look. It's THEIR choice. Isn't that the whole point? Giving women choices over their appearance? Their bodies? IF they want to embrace traditional genders, what's the problem with that? If they don't, what's the problem with that?

Nothing about that choice affects order, unity or equality. As for "uniformity," there are multiple different types of work uniforms, dress uniforms, even physical fitness uniform options. I spent 22 years in the Army and plenty of times I saw people wearing different uniforms for dress events based on personal preference. I never bought the mess dress even though I was an O5 because I thought it looked like a waiter's uniform. I preferred the Blues. Other field grades liked and wore the mess dress. And back when we still had the green's, you saw up to three different types of uniforms at a formal function. (which is probably the same thing you see now that they have the "pinks and greens."

So, no to "uniformity" as well.

Dress uniforms are the epitome of "style clothing." And even then, the women's uniforms of all types have different styling from the men. Why? Breasts. You can't put pockets on a woman's chest. And you can't have the same cut for women and men for fit purposes. So even when the uniforms are "the same," they ain't the same. Women's bodies are different from men. So this mythical exact sameness you are looking for doesn't exist, and it shouldn't exist. Equal does not equal same.

If this was a situation where women were required to dress one way ("feminine" ) then I'd be the first to say, that's bullshit. But they aren't. They have choices. Sorry but there's zero wrong with that.

[ancianita]

19. Fine. I accept your arguments and see nothing wrong with the meaning of 'choice' here.

The twitter photo reveals only surface. I don't want to see sexism where it doesn't exist.

I thought bodily differences don't hinder uniformity in the general sense, not down to pocket placement perfection or a cloned look. And so my use of those terms is in the spirit of military order over a gendered sorting.

Though I've spent time at Fort Gordon and Fort Sill, I was just an officer's wife who worked on base, familiar with different kinds of uniforms. That was 50 years ago, and times change.

I appreciate your post.

[qazplm135]

20. I'll give you credit

Most people here never admit to being anything other than 100 percent right, so being able to back down after an exchange of ideas is fairly rare here or anywhere on the internet. So kudos!

[ancianita]

21. In my case

I'm always open to correction. You're qualified enough and logical enough for anyone to accept your argument. So kudos back!