HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Gender & Orientation » Feminists (Group) » Are you literally f*cking...

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:27 AM

Are you literally f*cking kidding me?

Last edited Thu Jun 13, 2019, 06:04 PM - Edit history (4)

Let me tell you a tale of Patriarchy 101 in one of the most diverse cities in the world in 2019.

I am at the senior executive management meeting. I am, of course, the only woman in a sea of men. I am the Director of and run a division which requires an in-depth knowledge of industry specific requirements, a knowledge that I have built up over 20 years in very senior management roles within this particular landscape. None of the other Directors (including the Managing Director) have other than surface knowledge of the complexity of delivery in my division. My division is also the most profitable in the business by miles.

I was leading a discussion on a highly technical detail that was creating barriers to the successful delivery of one of my products and I was interrupted to be told that that was not possible. It did not make sense. The Managing Director then proceeded to go around the table asking every single man there did they not agree that it did not make sense. They all agreed with the Managing Director. One fellow director even suggested that he would ask one of my middle tier managers (another man) for clarification.

Are you literally fucking kidding me? Which is exactly what I said at the top of my voice. I explained very clearly that as the only expert in the room, how dare they suggest that because they did not understand something / did not like the answer that they felt they could imply I did not know what I was taking about. What. The. Actual. Fuck.

The Managing Director apologised. None of my colleagues who were so keen to diminish my expertise in what seemed to be a spontaneous male bonding session of bollocks did not.

Told ya…. A tale of Patriarchy 2019.

I want to punch a wall.
-----------------
EDIT: GMT 1635

A lot of the comments have asked about why I don't move on. I explained this is a comment I thought I would copy and paste here also....
I was working for a company that was hugely female centric as a Director for a number of years. This company was purchased last year and I was the only Director they asked to move across to lead a division, which is essentially my old company...with some part of their company reversed into it. I have committed to staying for a year to ensure the staff that where brought across from the old company are fully settled and leaving before this will risk their stability and I am not prepared to do that. I get head hunted regularly, as I am in a very niche and specialist market place, and am well know within it. I will make the move eventually, but it needs to be in a time and place where I know I have built and sustained my colleagues to be able to cope without me. I know that sounds big headed but it is not meant to be. They had a torrid time during the buy out and if I leave at the moment I fear the work I have put into seeing them settled will be for nought.

This is the first time in my career I have been the only woman in the executive team. To say it is somewhat different is an understatement!
-------
Update here https://www.democraticunderground.com/113912846

42 replies, 9329 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Are you literally f*cking kidding me? (Original post)
Soph0571 Tuesday OP
snowybirdie Tuesday #1
spooky3 Tuesday #2
Ohiogal Tuesday #3
Bluepinky Tuesday #4
Ligyron Tuesday #16
trev Tuesday #28
PatSeg Tuesday #5
underpants Tuesday #6
onetexan Tuesday #22
irisblue Tuesday #7
machoneman Tuesday #10
Soph0571 Tuesday #11
Nitram Tuesday #8
BooScout Tuesday #9
MyOwnPeace Tuesday #12
WinstonSmith4740 Tuesday #13
IronLionZion Tuesday #14
Soph0571 Tuesday #17
K-Dog Tuesday #15
IronLionZion Tuesday #18
Locrian Tuesday #20
Soph0571 Tuesday #33
marble falls Tuesday #19
Kid Berwyn Tuesday #21
pandr32 Tuesday #23
KY_EnviroGuy Tuesday #27
LisaM Tuesday #24
czarjak Tuesday #25
Laura PourMeADrink Tuesday #26
trev Tuesday #29
KY_EnviroGuy Tuesday #30
saidsimplesimon Tuesday #31
Soph0571 Tuesday #34
a la izquierda Tuesday #32
Ginger42 Tuesday #35
BlancheSplanchnik Wednesday #41
Karadeniz Tuesday #36
GeoWilliam750 Tuesday #37
LiberalFighter Tuesday #38
JudyM Tuesday #39
pnwmom Wednesday #40
Farmer-Rick Wednesday #42

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:34 AM

1. I threw in the towel

20 years ago when I found out my intern was making $20k in base salary more than me! He's gone to Yale after all and I was only the product of a local college. The 15 years experience meant nothing. Best thing I ever did! But I'm sorry for your difficulties. There is still so far more to go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:39 AM

2. Good on you!! In 2019 it's awful that this still happens but

I’m glad you stood up to them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:46 AM

3. I am angry, too

That this still happens in the year 2019!

Although not as egregious as your experience, I remember getting things “mansplained” to me when I was the only person working second shift in the prep dept. of the commercial printer where I was employed. After all, how could a mere “girl” know how to fix a run of 10,000 of something. Bossed around by a guy who had only been with our company two weeks and had very limited experience in this field. After I had my journeyman’s certificate, too. When will this ever end?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:47 AM

4. Coming from the top, patriarchy is gaining momentum.

Your company needs more female directors, it’s too male dominated to begin with. I’m glad you stood up for yourself and let them know they were acting like jerks. Hang in there! At least the Managing Director realized his mistake and apologized to you.

I wonder if men prefer to have women out of their workspace so they can freely engage in “locker room talk”, like Trump is known to do. He’s a poor example of a businessman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluepinky (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:18 AM

16. It's not just so they can freely engage in "locker room talk"

I remember when I was in the military my fellow male soldiers hated having to change their behavior when a female showed up. I should say the better raised ones changed their behavior. A certain number would crank up their borderline sexual harassment and a few, of course, just went all in.

I remember reading a quote by someone to the effect that in order to be accepted, a female had to do things better, faster and smarter than a male but that luckily this wasn't all that hard to do.

I found that not only amusing but absolutely true.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ligyron (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:38 PM

28. I guess I was more fortunate.

My MOS was in a highly technical field. We men treated the women as complete equals, judged only on their technical skills. There was no change in behavior around them--and none was needed. So I never had to chastise anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:09 AM

5. That is brutal

I remember similar things happening to me many years ago, but I'd hoped that the work place had evolved more since then.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:14 AM

6. My wife runs into this all the time

Big company everyone knows. She’s shifted fields/duties over the years. Also she is the go to person for a variety of corporate created extra measures. Her boss retired and she was clearly the person for his position. He strongly recommended her. They gave the position to a guy with no experience of any kind in that area of the company. None. Here’s the kicker, a woman was the one who petitioned/cajoled/played politics at the executive level board who made the decision. This woman is quite open in her distrust of women being above a certain level in corporate world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to underpants (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:58 AM

22. i've run into this all of my career as well

For most of my professional life in my career as an engineer, i mostly worked with men. When i did start to work with women, i am usually the only one with a tech background or one of the very few. The men will say subtle things to discredit or throw shade at stuff i've produced, OR try to one-up me by taking my stuff and present it as their original idea.
It's better now, but we've got a long way to go as far as equality for women is concerned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:36 AM

7. I have many questions for you

This-"explained very clearly that as the only expert in the room, how dare they suggest that because they did not understand something / did not like the answer that they felt they could imply I did not know what I was taking about. What. The. Actual. Fuck.

The Managing Director apologised. None of my colleagues who were so keen to diminish my expertise in what seemed to be a spontaneous male bonding session of bollocks did "


I will be very interested in hearing what happens in your company, to you after this.


Can you leave& take your expertise into a new company.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to irisblue (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:53 AM

10. Yes, leave...and make them pay by....

...going to a direct competitor and shine over there!

This from a guy, retired, as former company C.E.O. and Prez.

Go for it girl!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to irisblue (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:58 AM

11. The answer to this is rather complex

I was working for a company that was hugely female centric as a Director for a number of years. This company was purchased last year and I was the only Director they asked to move across to lead a division, which is essentially my old company...with some part of their company reversed into it. I have committed to staying for a year to ensure the staff that where brought across from the old company are fully settled and leaving before this will risk their stability and I am not prepared to do that. I get head hunted regularly, as I am in a very niche and specialist market place, and am well know within it. I will make the move eventually, but it needs to be in a time and place where I know I have built and sustained my colleagues to be able to cope without me. I know that sounds big headed but it is not meant to be. They had a torrid time during the buy out and if I leave at the moment I fear the work I have put into seeing them settled will be for nought.

This is the first time in my career I have been the only woman in the executive team. To say it is somewhat different is an understatement!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:38 AM

8. Thank you for sharing. We need to hear more of these stories.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:43 AM

9. I don't miss the corporate good old boy world...

...AT. ALL.

I've walked away from it on two continents for good now. They can all go fuck themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:58 AM

12. Don't punch the wall............

that will HURT!!!

Besides, you've already punched THEM where it hurts!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:06 AM

13. Just out of curiosity...

Have you noticed the "mansplaining" has increased since Trump? I know the men here at DU tend to be way more enlightened than the average guy out there, and it's been a while since I've been in corporate America. It just seems to me from casual observation that recently some men feel empowered to think they have the duty to keep us in our "place". I mean, did this sort of disrespect happen to you before (as The Ferret describes him) Tangerine Idi Amin stole the presidency?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:09 AM

14. Are there any minorities that might support you?

I've seen white women executives gain momentum by building coalitions of support with minorities, young people, and liberal men.

Most of the women I've worked with have been good at their jobs. It seems a bit suspicious that you'd be the one woman in a sea of men. That says something about the company's culture and leadership. There may be other companies out there that might be a better fit. My quality of life got better after I changed companies a few years back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IronLionZion (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:18 AM

17. I explained why I can't leave right now here:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:10 AM

15. I know it looks bad but....

Perhaps they have more to fear from the Managing Director than you know? You described a meeting of directors. Many people stand so low on the pyramid they don't even know what a director is. A whole meeting of them sounds like having coffee and cake on Mt Everest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to K-Dog (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:19 AM

18. Welcome to DU!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to K-Dog (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:37 AM

20. I've seen this happen a lot

A lot of the middle managers (directors?) are a certain "cut".
And yes - a lot are male because of historical "grooming" for the positions etc.

There are recently more of every demographic - but they all share a "rich sense of entitlement" and extremely "position sensitive". Oh, and they're extremely arrogant and impracticable in terms of understanding real-world problems vs what passes for "management attitude".

There's truly a dumb-ing down of management ongoing in this country right now - business think they're the "smartest *guys*" in the room and they're just entitled, idiots.

The OP sounds like someone who really knows whats going on etc - maybe it doesn't fit patriarchy but also the attitude of the "new business" culture. I've been in a LOT of these meetings and it's painful to see what is "allowed" to be said because it fits their world view framework vs reality. A lot of business strategy is dogma and superstition. Heretics are filtered out very quickly.




But there were some unfortunate side-effects of this heightened corporate consciousness. First, according to one former middle manager, it was virtually impossible for anyone outside the company to understand this new language the employees were speaking. Second, the manager said, the new language “led to a lot more meetings” and the sheer amount of time wasted nurturing their newfound states of higher consciousness meant that “everything took twice as long”. “If the energy that had been put into Kroning had been put to the business at hand, we all would have gotten a lot more done,” said the manager.


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/23/from-inboxing-to-thought-showers-how-business-bullshit-took-over

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Locrian (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 04:52 PM

33. Directors are the most senior team within a company. We are the Board of Directors.

I have not been a middle manager since I was 27

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:25 AM

19. And update your resume?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:38 AM

21. Tell them what Gen. George S. Patton was wont to say.

'When everybody is thinking alike, nobody is doing any thinking.''

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:02 PM

23. I love that quote

I am saving that one!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:34 PM

27. That's exactly how Republicans roll.

Actual thinking is done by secretive billionaire-sponsored think tanks that most people never heard of and all visible Republicans are just lemmings repeating the tune.

........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:24 PM

24. Why should YOU move on? Who would ask that?

Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2019, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

This reminds me of a piece I heard on college English professors about fifteen years ago who were trying to teach the classics, and the students would ask things like why Captain Ahab didn't take anti-depressants.

The correct question would have been, why did the others earn management positions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:24 PM

25. Knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:26 PM

26. Easy and common to happen! I always get buy in before meetings.

Then typically won't get any surprises. Especially from the one asshole guy who disrupts. Another thing I've learned is to keep things on high level. If people want detail they will ask. Makes them feel a part of it and makes you look good when you have immediate access to detail.

Just my two cents ..learned along the way

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:42 PM

29. In my last job

most of the employees in the office were women. Women held all the top supervisory positions, and many of the lower echelons.

Of course, this was in liberal Portland, so that may have made a difference.

Sorry you have to put up with that crap.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:56 PM

30. Soph, I wish you could just buy the damn place.

.........

Back in the day, I had a drinking buddy who was one of the few that was quite wealthy. If we went out to party and the barkeep wasn't doing to suit him, he would say "we'll just buy the damn place". He never did but probably could have....

I think all companies of any size I worked for were run by incompetent psychopaths and I believe statistics support the theory that they tend to migrate either into big business or to crime and prison.

Best of luck and thanks for sharing that inspirational story......

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 01:59 PM

31. Brava, Soph, excellent post as always.

"I want to punch a wall."

"why, I don't move on" is another reminder of my past corporate employment. My career goal had been to obtain a management position in the world's largest corporation. It remains male dominated at the executive level. I do chuckle every month when they deposit my pension check.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 05:14 PM

34. LOL. Cash is the best revenge!!!! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 03:36 PM

32. I've had this happen in faculty meetings.

Man colleague tries to mansplain to me and the rest of the department about a region of the world of which I am the only expert in the room. Man colleague gets angry when I interrupt him to suggest he’s wrong. Man colleague asks other man colleague what he thinks, despite the fact that second colleague is not an expert either.
Stay in your lane, bros.
Now I have tenure. They’re all in for a shock when they discover I have a voice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 05:22 PM

35. I once had the audacity

to do a man’s job better than he did it. Production department at a TV station. Production Director was awful at his job – he loved to let the work pile up until the salespeople were frantic about their ads getting done, then he’d slop them together at the last minute. No one could do anything unless he specifically told us to, so some days we just sat around while the work went undone and it looked like we were loafers but we were forbidden to do any little thing unless he specifically told one of us to do it.

He went on vacation and the GM put me in charge (since there was no male alternative.) I got that shit organized. Everyone had assignments, they were empowered to do what needed to be done, and the salespeople always knew what was being shot/edited for their clients and it was all done well before airtime with plenty of time for review and client approval.

Production Director comes back and the GM calls us into his office and wants to know why the hell everything goes great when PD is gone and goes back into the shitter when he gets back. His exact words: “You leave, she takes charge, and suddenly my salespeople are happier than pigs in shit! She’s even getting work out of (station owner’s daughter.) Then you come back and it all stops. What the hell is up with that?”

I knew I was doomed. Six months later I was “laid off.” Doing a job better than a man was a cardinal sin at that station.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ginger42 (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 07:27 AM

41. 🤬

That makes me angry on your behalf.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 06:33 PM

36. You had the right(ful) reaction!❤

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 08:54 PM

37. My compliments on your ethics and professionalism - it is not as common as it needs to be

You are properly looking after your staff, whose livelihoods and families depend on you. It is indeed very much about them, and again I compliment you for putting them first - as the best leaders do.

When you have completed your objectives, largely secured your employees immediate future, and moved along in an amicable departure, I have a funny feeling that when the non-compete clauses run out, the very best of your people will happily - joyfully, even - help you in making your new place even better.

Wishing you the every success.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 10:29 PM

38. You have integrity. It should follow you well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:06 PM

39. Kudos to you for speaking up so strikingly and having the heart to stay for your more junior team.

Ive been there, done that. Haven’t spoken out like you did, just took it in and felt badly about it. Your way is better!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:59 AM

40. On behalf of your employees, I would like to thank you. Maybe they know

how much you have supported them but probably not .

Good luck on your continuing career. I'm sure it will be amazing.

:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 08:02 AM

42. My wife spent 20 years in the military

She went head to head with many a man who thought he knew better. Then she would come home and tell me all about it. It was a tough career but she was a tough woman. I did notice it got better as the years passed.

I thought society was getting better than came Trump and this country had a massive social downgrade. Hang in there. Once we get rid of the wannabe mobster mysogonist in the white house, we will go back to improving.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread