Why “Yes, But” Is the Wrong Response to Misogyny

[redqueen]

Not sure if anyone here has read about the incident on the atheism sub reddit thing (I don't do reddit, for reasons which will become clear shortly), in which a 15-year-old girl posted a picture of herself holding a book she got as a gift, and was responded to with an avalanche of misogynistic idiocy.

Anyway this blog concerns the type of responses that too often crop up when discussing incidents like this.

I saw it at feministe.us, but I'm including the link to the original post as well.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/01/04/why-yes-but-is-the-wrong-response-to-misogyny/

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2011/12/29/why-yes-but-is-the-wrong-response-to-misogyny/

“Yes, but… not all men are like that. And if you’re going to talk about misogyny, you have to be extra-clear about that.”

“Yes, but… misogyny doesn’t just happen in (X) community (atheist, black, gay, etc.). In fact, it’s worse in some other communities. So it’s not fair to talk about misogyny when it does happen in (X) community, as if it’s something special that we’re doing wrong.”

“Yes, but… (X) community where misogyny happens has some great things about it, too. It’s not fair to paint everyone in it with the same brush.”

“Yes, but… the woman/ women in question could have done something to avoid the misogyny she got targeted with. She/ they could have stayed anonymous/ concealed her gender/ dressed differently/etc. I’m not saying it’s her fault, but…”

More at link.


Edited to add: I agree overall, but disagree with the decision to describe this nonsense as if it comes solely from men. I never see this happen without at least one or two women cheering/dismissing/excusing/rationalizing misogyny right along with the men. Never.

[ZombieHorde]

1. I am going to post a paragraph that I feel offers practicle advice to those with the urge...

If you want to talk about starving people in Africa, or whether misogyny is worse in (X) community than (Y) community, or male circumcision, or some possibly mean and unfair things that some feminist said at another time, or whether moderation of online forums constitutes censorship? Fine. Those are worthwhile topics. (Except for the last one, which is just silly.) But they are worthwhile topics FOR A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. Post them in another thread. Start another thread. Do not freaking bring them up every single time the topic of misogyny comes up.

This is good advice that I will try to keep in mind.

[redqueen]

6. Indeed. Bigots of all stripes profess not to hate

the groups they are bigoted against. Some do openly embrace and proudly proclaim their hatred, but many swear they're only seeing what to them are just basic differences. Some never open their eyes to the fact that they are being hateful.

I don't know of any other minorities who are so overwhelmingly invested in their own subjugation that they will protect and defend the bigots who mistreat them.

[BlueIris]

3. I hate the "not all men are like that" response.

How does that excuse the ones who are? And wouldn't the time of the MRAs who spew that nonsense be better spent eradicating misogyny among both men and women? Why attack those of us pointing out the reality of misogyny in society, unless it's to try to deny and minimize that reality?

[laconicsax]

4. It's an attempt to deny and minimize.

The whole point of the response is to put the person talking about the problem on the defensive.

[redqueen]

5. It is, at its root, about privilege. Power.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.