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Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 02:48 PM Oct 2013

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (Tobin S.) on Sat Dec 24, 2016, 06:06 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) Tobin S. Oct 2013 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author libodem Oct 2013 #1
No, and I don't think I can. elleng Oct 2013 #2
That's okay, ellen Tobin S. Oct 2013 #5
Thanks, Tobin. elleng Oct 2013 #7
Bitter is my middle name now. Denninmi Oct 2013 #3
Maybe so Tobin S. Oct 2013 #6
If holding a grudge bothers you, yes. Otherwise...not so much. HereSince1628 Oct 2013 #4
It depends on what you mean by forgiveness. easttexaslefty Oct 2013 #8
I agree. I forgive for me TexasBushwhacker Oct 2013 #11
understanding maybe mopinko Oct 2013 #9
Yes, it's crucial BainsBane Oct 2013 #10
Ditto ifyousayso Dec 2013 #12
I have tried and I can't. Wish I could. But it's not happening. n/t auntAgonist Dec 2013 #13
It's something you do for yourself, not others. hunter Dec 2013 #14
The only person I have had trouble forgiving is my mother's No Vested Interest Dec 2013 #15
It may not be necessary or even possible to forgive. Tobin S. Dec 2013 #16
You are , of course, correct, Tobin. No Vested Interest Dec 2013 #17
If the person in question hasn't tried to become a better person, then it's not worth it. Neoma Dec 2013 #18

Response to Tobin S. (Original post)

elleng

(130,126 posts)
2. No, and I don't think I can.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 04:01 PM
Oct 2013

Sorry, but not 'evolved' enough, I guess. Still angry when I think about it, even tho have received some 'compensation.'

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
5. That's okay, ellen
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 06:06 PM
Oct 2013

I didn't mean to imply that people who do not forgive are un-evolved.

I wrote my thread fully understanding that some people have no need for forgiveness, either receiving or giving.

elleng

(130,126 posts)
7. Thanks, Tobin.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 07:42 PM
Oct 2013

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
3. Bitter is my middle name now.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 04:36 PM
Oct 2013

I say it depends in who and how they hurt you.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
6. Maybe so
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 06:09 PM
Oct 2013

And like I said to ellen, forgiveness, received or given, may not be necessary for some people.

And I can think of situations where I doubt I'd be able to forgive, like if somebody killed my child.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
4. If holding a grudge bothers you, yes. Otherwise...not so much.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 06:05 PM
Oct 2013

A few months ago, I realized my older brother (by six years) modeled my parents behavior.

I don't forgive him for that, although I understand how he came to bad behavior.

One day while he was baby sitting me while I was 6-7 he hit me, actually punched me in the face, for 'not obeying him', he knocked out 2 teeth, broke a 3rd, and the force of the mis-mash of broken enamel and dentine cut my gum to the bone. The bone stayed exposed for 3 years...until an elementary "Dental Hygiene Day" resulted in my parents being called into the school to explain why they accepted the trauma as a part of my natural childhood...the delay took out 2 more teeth.

easttexaslefty

(1,554 posts)
8. It depends on what you mean by forgiveness.
Thu Oct 24, 2013, 09:03 PM
Oct 2013

I have forgiven. Doesn't mean I have to allow them back in my life.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,043 posts)
11. I agree. I forgive for me
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:19 PM
Oct 2013

because I think holding a grudge against the offender hurts me more than it hurts them. However, I do not forget what they did (or didn't) do and I don't trust them.

mopinko

(69,803 posts)
9. understanding maybe
Fri Oct 25, 2013, 10:05 AM
Oct 2013

i tell my kids- i am all flaws, held together by good intentions. they are slowly, as they get to be adults, starting to figure out that i did the best i could, AND that it was not THEIR fault. i want so badly for them to understand. i couldn't love them any more, and for them to not feel that from me is so frustrating. so i hope for forgiveness, for sure.

but i also, as i get really older, understand my own parents more, especially my dad. he too, was all flaws. a terrible alcoholic. but also a genius, charming as could be, and when he could be, a great dad.
i mostly hated and feared him all my life. but now i find myself accidentally on a path and in a place that he would have done just anything for. and i see my kids with the same love of animals, and growing things, which were his gifts to me. and i have finally found something to really thank him for. and for that i am quite grateful.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
10. Yes, it's crucial
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 09:40 AM
Oct 2013

When we hold on to grudges, we are the ones who feel that pain, not the person we are angry with. You forgive them for yourself, so that you can move forward with your life. In the case of parents, they can't change the past. None of us can. All we can do is create a meaningful relationship with them in the present. My sense is that you would not be leading the charmed life you describe if you had not found a way to move on from past resentments.

Also in the case of bi-polar disorder, you probably already know there is a very strong genetic component to the disease. You could have had the best parents in the world and still developed BPD.

ifyousayso

(19 posts)
12. Ditto
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 10:28 PM
Dec 2013

Ditto what BainsBane said. (I wish there was a way to give comments positive or negative marks.)

auntAgonist

(17,252 posts)
13. I have tried and I can't. Wish I could. But it's not happening. n/t
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:24 AM
Dec 2013

hunter

(38,263 posts)
14. It's something you do for yourself, not others.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 06:05 PM
Dec 2013

If forgiveness doesn't work, flee. Put it behind.

Revenge or schadenfreude have rarely worked out for me.

Well, schadenfreude maybe once... there was this kid in middle school who used to torment me. He beat me bloody a few times. His dad was a tough guy and he was a tough guy. My middle school identity was science geek "queer-bait." I was a skinny, squeaky, clumsy, clueless, and a highly reactive kid. Picked last for sports. This guy got an "A" in Physical Education. All I got an honorable mention for "trying" and a "C" for mostly staying out of trouble. I'd wear the pink and violet P.E. uniform when I forgot my own. (Heh. I solved that problem in high school by never taking my P.E. uniform home to be washed... by the end of the year it was stiff and smelled bad. Maybe one of the many reasons I decided to quit high school.)

So this middle school bully and I crossed paths years later. He was the boy-toy of an older professional woman.

I'd "grown up" to be taller than he was, stronger than he was, I had my kids with me, and I was happy.

But Good God, I was a gentleman. His lady friend sparkled to hear the better things of his past. Like he and I were old school chums. The poor guy's expression moved from terror when he first saw me to eternal gratitude as we all chatted.

On the other hand there are people I avoid, people who hurt me badly. It's not about forgiveness, psycho-babble" avoidance, or anything like that. It's just dark empty places, holes in my life I don't want to fall into again.

Best one can do is solve the problems and then forgive one's self. After that forgiving others is much easier.


No Vested Interest

(5,156 posts)
15. The only person I have had trouble forgiving is my mother's
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:48 PM
Dec 2013

second husband, married to my mother after my father had died.

I was long married, with a family, and initially happy for my mother, for she cared for him.
But after 10-12 years, when she started suffering from dementia, he effectively abandoned her.

She tried to phone him, but his daughter always said he was sleeping and he never called or spoke to her again.
He never sent her a Christmas card or contacted her in any way, and even on her dementia, she was hurt.
He died never having spoken to her again, and mother died about five years later.
How do truly forgive such an action?

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
16. It may not be necessary or even possible to forgive.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:57 PM
Dec 2013

As I mentioned above, there are circumstances where I think it would probably be impossible for me to forgive. I don't think it makes you a bad person if you are unable to forgive someone. After all, it is you who has been wronged.

However, for me, personally, in my unique situation, I felt it was necessary to forgive for my own well being. I also felt that it was unfair to hold a grudge after so many years for people I knew had changed for the better and had probably recognized their own mistakes. But that's my situation. I realize that this is a very personal issue and I'm not going to try to tell you how you should feel.

No Vested Interest

(5,156 posts)
17. You are , of course, correct, Tobin.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:10 PM
Dec 2013

Forgiveness is best for the one hurt.
I don't dwell on my mother's situation; it's years ago, and growing longer every year.
But whenever the subject of long-held grievance comes up, that is the one thing I return to.

Neoma

(10,039 posts)
18. If the person in question hasn't tried to become a better person, then it's not worth it.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:11 PM
Dec 2013

If they still treat you like crap, there's simply no use in forgiving when they're still toxic. Distancing yourself and soothing out yourself from what happened to you is probably the way to go.

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