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De Leonist

(225 posts)
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 01:02 PM Dec 2013

I can't take this anymore.



I think its time we, those who suffer and have suffered from, mental illness and neurological disorders. Get up off our collective asses and rock this fucking boat. Raise our fists and our voices and fight our way into the open. No more Stigma, no more having to endure a population who inflicts cruelty upon us through their ignorance. That we are human beings and that we are entitled to something other than poverty and misery or imprisonment. That we have our various disorders, disabilities, and emotional issues. That we are sick of hiding what we are just so "normal" people don't have to feel uncomfortable. How many people out there dealing with mental illness must struggle alone in a silence so dark and painful that no words can possibly describe it's depths? How many each year kill themselves or lash out in violent episodes because they have no other outlet for their desperation and rage? How many of those could have been saved if our society extended a compassionate hand instead of reviling in disgust or fear at the slightest sign? I know I'm not the only who feels this. How many here have had to suffer the ignorance and apathy of bosses, teachers, friends, coworkers, etc ? How many here have had their struggles invalidated by people who've never had to look in the mirror and see their own wretched despair constantly looking back at them? Ask yourselves these questions. Than tell me that inside you there is no burning ember of anger. Not hate but anger. An anger at what you know is wrong. We have every right to struggle for our wellbeing. To push back against a society that at best sees us as annoyances or at worst burdens and dangers. I am sick of being given this excuse " that's just how it is". For all the talk, social events, charities, and platitudes they still do not see as equals. But than equality in this country has never been simply acknowledged as it should but rather to be treated equal one must grasp with one's own hands and declare with one's own words. This is ultimately what we must do. We must teach them what we are and show that their ignorance is painful. That their apathy causes causes us despair. That we are tired of pain, tired of despair. I ask you all now to in some way no matter how small join this fight along side me. Be my brothers and sisters in arms. For while for us some small victories have been attained true ground must be gained and the only people who win can that ground is us. I will fight for my self. For my little cousin who has to deal with three different neurological disorders. For my second eldest brother who is Learning disabled. For my best friend who must live constantly with a shadow of dread at his heel. Also I will fight so that those yet to be born who will struggle like we struggle will do so in world that is more compassionate towards them. THIS MUST STOP!
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I can't take this anymore. (Original Post) De Leonist Dec 2013 OP
Maybe we could get the "Chief" Bromden to throw the fountain through the window. HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #1
I disagree BainsBane Dec 2013 #2
It's impassioned, yes. When did the Admin change rules to allow calls for armed fights? HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #3
You misunderstand, De Leonist Dec 2013 #4
Did you also read the DU Terms of Service available at the bottom of DU pages? HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #8
I get what you mean. De Leonist Dec 2013 #10
The SOP De Leonist Dec 2013 #5
If mental illness was a club, HS would have paid his dues. Tobin S. Dec 2013 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #7
(I loved the Chief in that Movie) libodem Dec 2013 #12
I understand your frustration. Tobin S. Dec 2013 #9
Anger has it's place De Leonist Dec 2013 #11
My opinion, why anger is very risky personal approach to ending stigma HereSince1628 Dec 2013 #13

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
1. Maybe we could get the "Chief" Bromden to throw the fountain through the window.
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 01:55 PM
Dec 2013

I understand stigma...but...

The SOP on this group states posters should make an effort to not make posts that arouse others. Inciting readers to join you in an armed fight seems on its face to violate that principle.

You might want to rework that post into something more appropriate to the operational limits of the group. Perhaps something that might enable some of the members of the group to discuss whatever particular stigmatizing event is currently bothering you.


HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
3. It's impassioned, yes. When did the Admin change rules to allow calls for armed fights?
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 02:18 PM
Dec 2013

Great we disagree.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
4. You misunderstand,
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 05:23 PM
Dec 2013

Not violence but to fight for acknowledgment of our struggles and also our inherit worth. I may used combative language but that's the point. I view combative language as probably the best tool for demographic of people that often are so easily victimized with out any real hesitation. Perfect example, here in Iowa a young child named Levi Null was bullied by classmates for his "odd" behavior and was, if I remember correctly provoked enough by his bullying classmates enough to strike one of them. One of the children had filmed the entire exchange and put it up online. When this was brought to the attention of the parents' the parents of the bullies essentially said he brought it on himself. Let me repeat that, on himself. A 13 yr old boy who because of his Autism is not always able to control his own behavior brought his own victimization on himself, how is that not disgusting? While some rather light punishments were doled out nothing substantive was done to prevent future bullying despite this not being the only incident of him being bullied. Another, a man with Down's Syndrome was essentially suffocated by police officers despite being told repeatedly by that man that he could not breath. No officer involved has been sent to prison. They may have been fired, but still had an ordinary person accidently choked someone to death they would received jail time. The list could go on and on. While you may not like the combativeness of my language I don't care. This is a real issue that affects everyone living with mental health problems and/or neurological disabilities. Its time something was done. Again, not a call for violence but rather a declaration of self worth and a demand that society live up to all it's talk of equality.

WE ARE HERE AND WE SHOULD DEMAND REAL EQUALITY!

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
8. Did you also read the DU Terms of Service available at the bottom of DU pages?
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 06:52 PM
Dec 2013

"Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like. "

Because you posted this: "...fight along side me. Be my brothers and sisters in arms".


I understand the injustice of stigma. I understand this group is for support of people with issues that can make them emotional,impulsive and not careful.

I understand the struggle to try to make others understand. It doesn't include calling people to use weapons, to which the phrase 'in arms' refers.

On edit, I apologize for linking this to the wrong reply...working with a handheld device...

De Leonist

(225 posts)
10. I get what you mean.
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 07:02 PM
Dec 2013

I get what your saying and yes I realize some folk do have issues that make them impulsive but I never said I'm advocating open violence. All of what you quoted was intended metaphorically I thought that would be rather clear quite frankly and yes I've read the terms of service. Believe me this was not posted haphazardly on my part. There many ways of fighting politically, violence only being one of them and certainly the least desirable.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
5. The SOP
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 06:06 PM
Dec 2013

I have read the SOP. The reason why I put it here is because I think it's the best place. I have already, posted a thread in Ask the Administrators for a Mental Health Activism Group. I see, like many on this site, a rising of spirit of rebellion. I'm not just talking about Stigma, I'm talking about everything. The ignorance, The Apathy, The Bullying, the denial of self-determination to so many of us who are actually capable of it. The homelessness of so many who aren't. I don't know if you yourself have to live with any sort of diagnosis or have problems with mental health but I KNOW much of the stress that people like us deal with comes from a society that does not see us as equal to them, not really anyway. I put this here because I've been living with many of the same issues that are talked about commonly in this group. Thoughts of Suicide, Depression , Stigma, the painful willful ignorance of even one's own closest family. It's time that we pushed back. It's time that we demanded what is ours by Birthright. The OP was meant to be empowering and it was also meant as call for the community of mentally ill and neurologically disabled to come together improve things for ourselves as a group. Perhaps I could've posted this elsewhere. But I knew the best way for it to get to the people who I most intended it for was to post it here. It's time normal people realize that we aren't something they can just push off into a lonely room whenever our presence becomes inconvenient. We have a right to live our lives based on our own goals and dreams. We also have a right not to be shamed, stigmatized, or dehumanized for what we are. Ultimately the only people we can rely on for empowerment is ourselves and I think the first step in doing so is openly say what is often the case for many. That Normal People as a whole don't really care about our rights very much. The only thing they care about is that we don't cause them trouble. I realize those last two statements is painting with a VERY broad stroke. But with what I've seen, the people I've known, and than you add on the statistical facts and this is the conclusion that I've come to. It's one I find intolerable.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
6. If mental illness was a club, HS would have paid his dues.
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 06:28 PM
Dec 2013

I think he just thought that your OP was too violent for the group. He is one of the smartest people we have speaking as one of us on DU and is the founder of the Mental Health Information group.

Now I'll quit trying to speak for him and respond to your OP. I just wanted you to know he's a good guy.

Response to De Leonist (Reply #5)

libodem

(19,288 posts)
12. (I loved the Chief in that Movie)
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 07:33 PM
Dec 2013

In the 70's, I was a Therapy Tech, at a State Hospital, it looked very much like the building in that movie. It was one of my most interesting and educational experiences.

The thought of that story brings back memories for me.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
9. I understand your frustration.
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 06:58 PM
Dec 2013

BTW, I've been a fan of metal since for 26 years. It's been a good outlet for me when I was angry, and I used to be angry a lot. The music probably kept me from getting into more serious trouble than I did.

One of the best ways you can effect change in people's minds on any issue is to start with the people and places you know. DU is not always a welcoming place for those of us with mental health problems, but it is much friendlier than it used to be. Bigotry regarding people like us was rampant on here at one point. But because of this group (one of the oldest on here) and people like HS and you and me, the board as a whole is much more informed and empathetic on issues that affect us. It's a success story that might only be apparent to those of us who have been here a long time. I've been a member since 2003. I changed my handle in and ditched my old account with the approval of admin.

So you can't just go out there and start metaphorically knocking heads. Well, you can, but I think you'll get a lot more traction on the issue if you use a more nuanced approach. People often respond to anger with anger. When that happens you don't get anything but a bloody nose.

If you think about your own hometown or maybe your own neighborhood, I'll bet you can think of ways, peaceful ways, to raise awareness on issues that affect the mentally ill. It's a good place to start. I don't have much time to do stuff like that, but I do support NAMI of which there's a local chapter in my community.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
11. Anger has it's place
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 07:26 PM
Dec 2013

While I see what your saying, the op was meant to be a call to action and it's often the anger and the frustration that actually fuel real change. Certainly not always positively but it doesn't mean anger doesn't have it's place in the struggle of for a better future. That anger is real and palpable. It's part of what motivated Malcolm X and Huey P Newton. Not anger itself but an anger at the state of their people. An Anger that the misery is so unnecessary and unjust. While my tone was certainly accusatory it doesn't mean I hate people (well generally speaking, I don't deny a bit of a misanthropic streak) Anyway whatever ends happening to this thread. I'm sincere in what I said and I'm sincere in my inability to tolerate the current state of things anymore. We deserve acknowledgment of our humanity and we deserve full equality. We are not going to get it by not saying that ignorance and apathy causes that current state of inequality. Just as the Civil Rights Movement brought to light the ugly face of White Supremacy so should a M.H. Activism movement bring to light the prejudice of normal people.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
13. My opinion, why anger is very risky personal approach to ending stigma
Wed Dec 11, 2013, 02:10 PM
Dec 2013

As an emotion, anger often arises following the perception of being offended, wronged, or denied. It provides an internal cognitive and physiological platform that motivates and facilitates defensive thinking warranting self-defensive behaviors. It's easy to understand how being subjected to stigma leads to anger.

But, as stated in a recent article in the Rochester City News, a quite troubling thing about prejudice and stigma about mental illness is the notion that "mentally ill individuals are violent, dangerous, and poised to erupt without notice or cause". Members of the stigmatizing public are positioned by that fear of expected danger. It's important to realize that what appears a righteously angry response to unfairness and discrimination may be translated into behaviors that can look exactly like something dangerous. Voice raises, skin flushes, facial expressions and posture communicate that a point of intolerance to further perceived injustice well be vigorously rejected. Anger translates into interpersonal communication that's known to immediately precede hostile interactions.

Much of what we know about anger and aggression in the mentally ill comes from institutions that detain the "dangerous" mentally ill...primarily prisons but also secured mental health wards. The statistics the public hears about dangerousness of the mentally ill refer to occurrences of violence against caregivers and security within those facilities. Much less well know are the handful of studies that looked at such violence and which found that it mostly occurs when the mentally ill perceive threats and/or mistreatment. The inmates/inpatients, believe their behavior was a justifiable defensive response the folks running those places see it only as violence of the mentally ill.

What the general public and people like Wayne LaPierre take away from these biased sources of information on violence of the mentally ill is a warped general understanding that suggests all mentally ill persons represent monsters among us; who, regardless of their diagnosis, are unpredictable time-bombs of dangerous behavior.

Consequently, attempts to end stigma by "fighting" or direct action for justice are unlikely to be effective. They could be potentially dangerous. Average members of the public, just like psychiatric and corrections staff, are very likely to see an angry "fight" as symptomatic of illness rather than a justified and reasonable reaction to injustice. The "crazies" end up in detention and that has great significance on their personal lives.

That posibility makes the struggle to end stigma and the discrimination that flows from it rather unlike other struggles for equal rights. It is a struggle that really must minimize signals of angry resistance even though anger against injustice is completely understandable.

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