question about bread making...

[Javaman]

I've got the basics down for making a loaf of white bread, but I noticed that after it's baked and I slice it, the center is a little thin.

I'm thinking this is because after I punch it down then put it in the loaf pan for the second rise, a "gap" is formed in the middle.

my question is: after I punch it down and get it ready for the second rise, can I kneed it again to form the the loaf?

Thanks

[Jilly_in_VA]

1. How do you form your loaf?

Do you just make a loaf shape and plop it in the pan, or do you flatten it out, expelling the bubbles, roll it up pretty tightly, pinch it closed, fold the ends under and pinch them closed too? That makes a much "tighter" loaf.

[Warpy]

2. Exactly right

Rougher handling makes for a tighter sandwich loaf. Commercial bakeries have machinery that really flattens the dough out before it's rolled up tightly they get the dough down to about half an inch. Home bakers can get it down to an inch or so and still get decent results. Just make sure it's rolled up tightly.

Another problem might be dough that's just a little too dry, one of my problems for ages until it dawned on me that might be the problem after bread on a sloppily foggy day on the coast came out better.

Bread is one of those things that has to be done by practice, but even a loaf that comes out wrong, like the brick that represented my first effort, can be edible. That brick made the best Melba toast, ever.

[Javaman]

3. after I punch it down, scrape out of the bowl onto a floured surface...

then just form the loaf.

I don't kneed it or anything.

I will try what you suggested in the second part of your response. roll it out etc.

Thanks for the help.

[Major Nikon]

4. The process of kneeding develops gluten

Gluten is the protein that retains the loaf structure as the CO2 creates leavening. If you have airspace in the middle of your loaf, gluten isn't your problem and kneeding isn't the solution.

That being said you should be forming the loaf between fermentation (first rise) and proofing (second rise).

I'm not sure what shape of loaf you're after, but it sounds as if you're doing a traditional loaf in a loaf pan. If this is the case I'd suggest punching your loaf down until it's relatively flat and rolling it into your loaf shape before depositing it into your pan. This should allow your loaf to develop more evenly.

[hippywife]

5. I agree with Jilly.

Flatten/roll out the dough flat after the 1st rise, then tightly roll it as you would cinnamon roll dough to shape it into a loaf. Pinch the seam and place it seam side down into the loaf pan.