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kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:33 PM Jan 2013

On Sharpening Knives

On sharpening knives

I really like cooking. I guess. It’s not the cooking that I don’t like…it’s the prep work. The chopping is tedious. And for me, dangerous. I am a noted clod and slack-ass mofo. These two traits do not go well in the kitchen. The clod part of it results in blood shed, the slack-ass part means sometimes we don’t eat until 9PM.

I enjoy cooking for me and Dan, I really do. And I do it a lot…6 days a week we eat a home-made meal, using organic ingredients if practicable and affordable. Affordable being the ruling ethos….40 years after the organic movement first told us organic foods could be cheap…some items are finally becoming comparatively priced with the normal grocery store brands. It took them long enough.

Now, when my dad died, I came into a little bit of money….I was a thousand-aire of the less than 20K variety. For me, that’s a lot of money. So, I paid off most of my bills, and bought myself a nice opal ring. Then when I sat down and thought about things that would really help me in my everyday life, I thought some good cooking equipment would do the trick.

I looked at reviews, and bought the “economy” Calphalon…a 12” skillet, a 2 quart saucepan, and this smaller pan that weighs 10 lbs. Can I just say I’m in love with the skillet? Eggs just slide out, unbidden. I don’t have to wash it…I just wipe it out. The 2 quart saucepan is the same…the food slides out, and clean up requires a swipe or two with a paper towel. Can I also say that they are delicate flowers that metal utensils must not come near? Can I just say that I live with a man who doesn’t understand delicate flowers? I am so glad he can’t be bothered to put his dirty dishes in the sink……

So now I got the pans….I need a good chef’s knife. I go to America’s Test Kitchen for product reviews. I was looking for a decent chef’s knife. For not too expensive-ish. I mean, I’m sure that $250 Wusthoff is brilliant…or that $500 Japanese Santoku…but I don’t want to spend that much money. I need a decent, serviceable chef’s knife.

I found it in the Victorinox Chef’s Knife. $30. It arrived promptly and sharply.
It was so sharp that after its first use, I got the woozies . You know what they say; a dull knife is dangerous, blah blah blah…well….so are sharp knives. Sharp knives are….sharp. Oh, the cut is prettier, and easier to stitch, but they still make me bleed. Hard.

So, in not too much time at all, my new knife lost its edge. I went from making pretty, easily stitched cuts in my fingers to making these raggedy type things that bled even more profusely, if such a thing is possible. It was time to take the knife to the local sharpener dude.

Sharpener dude works out of the local mom & pop Ace hardware store. She’s in her 40’s, and she and her parents grew up in this town. However, there is a 10 day turnaround time between the time you drop off your knife, until the time you get it back. In my frivolous youth, that was okay. As I have gotten older and more demanding and crotchety…it is not enough.

I started reading up on the local, organic, DIY lifestyle thingy and decided I wanted to grab some o’ that gusto for myself. And I would start….by sharpening my own chef’s knife. I read and read on about.com, and in other places, about how you sharpen your own knife. Quick hint…put a small binder clip over the top of your knife while you’re sharpening it, for the proper angle.

So I went to the local mom & pop Ace Hardware store, and bought a sharpening stone. Not an oilstone…no, this one you soak in water for 5 minutes before you use it. I soaked the stone. I used the prescribed angle when drawing the blade across the stone. One side of the blade, then the other. The rough side of the stone, then the smooth. Then, after that, you have to hone the blade on a honing steel. Which I didn’t have. But because I did further research, I found that one can use the bottom of a ceramic coffee cup as a honing steel!

I didn’t have too much hope, because I’m a clod…but I’ll be damned that knife cut through an onion like nobody’s business! And through potatoes like butter! And through my finger like a flippin’ cloud.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On Sharpening Knives (Original Post) kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 OP
you need these:http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/24729-cut-resistant-glove.aspx MichiganVote Jan 2013 #1
I am so glad you posted this because I have been meaning to sharpen cbayer Jan 2013 #2
The info I got kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #5
What is honing exactly? I've just been using the sharpening stone. cbayer Jan 2013 #7
From what I understand kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #8
Oh, ok. I'm not going to do that every time I use it, but I can definitely tell when the burrs cbayer Jan 2013 #10
I've always used something like this: struggle4progress Jan 2013 #3
I tend to favor super hard MAC knives Warpy Jan 2013 #4
Be careful - the Mac knives originally come with a 15 degree edge... SeattleVet Jan 2013 #18
Thank you for the good info! kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #20
i got a wustoff sharpener for xmas and i love it. mopinko Jan 2013 #6
Hey you! Where in the world have you been? cbayer Jan 2013 #9
busy as a one armed paper hanger. mopinko Jan 2013 #11
Well, huge congratulations on you acquisitions. cbayer Jan 2013 #12
it's ok, but mopinko Jan 2013 #13
Which sharpener did you get... one_voice Jan 2013 #27
this one. mopinko Jan 2013 #28
Thank you!! Gonna go find myself... one_voice Jan 2013 #29
That is a picture of a knife steel guardian Feb 2013 #32
I use the Chef's Choice 3 stage Major Nikon Jan 2013 #14
Ditto LancetChick Jan 2013 #19
I too ditto the Chef's Choice. Jazzgirl Jan 2013 #31
For years I've used a EzeLap Steel, BarbaRosa Jan 2013 #15
A "reliable source" told me that really sharp knives are safer than dull ones. pinto Jan 2013 #16
Hi Pinto... kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #21
Hi. I've emailed her. pinto Jan 2013 #24
I appreciate it! kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #25
Here's her response - pinto Jan 2013 #26
Excellent info! kurtzapril4 Feb 2013 #33
I've been using the same knife for over 20 years now. hobbit709 Jan 2013 #17
Good, Sharp Knives Are Wonderful. Paladin Jan 2013 #22
Apparently, it gives a good angle. kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #23
I have two Henckles and a Chef's Choice sharpener Tab Jan 2013 #30
 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
1. you need these:http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/24729-cut-resistant-glove.aspx
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:39 PM
Jan 2013

You can find similar items on Amazon and other cook stops. A sharpened knife is a good tool but you don't need big money unless you are a practicing chef.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
2. I am so glad you posted this because I have been meaning to sharpen
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:42 PM
Jan 2013

my knives and always remember at the exact time that I actually need them. Consequently I am always putting it off until tomorrow.

I recently bought knives, something I have needed for a long, long time. I also chose Victorinix and could not be happier.

I got the chef's knife, a carving knife, a paring knife and an angled bread knife (because I make that kind of bread that has the crispy outside and very soft inside). It was a relatively big initial investment that has made cooking much easier and much more fun.

Like you, I can be a real klutz, so I pay close attention when chopping, etc. So far, no injuries (knock on wood).

I got the stone that you put oil on and watched a video on the correct angle and direction for sharpening. It amazes me how well it works and how easy it is. I also keep them in their original sleeves and wash/dry them separately. They are my treasures.

Anyway, off to sharpen! Congrats on your new knife and on your learning how to sharpen it.

kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
5. The info I got
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:58 PM
Jan 2013

from many sites was that you hone your knife before or after every time you use it. You sharpen it every 2-3 weeks, or depending on how much you need to do it. I have been honing my knife before I use it, every time. It does make a difference.

kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
8. From what I understand
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jan 2013

sharpening gets the blade to the correct angle, and honing gets rid of any burrs that may be left behind by the sharpening.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. Oh, ok. I'm not going to do that every time I use it, but I can definitely tell when the burrs
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:33 PM
Jan 2013

are off while sharpening.

I enjoy taking care of them, but am highly unlikely to become obsessive about it, lol.

Anyway, finished up the sharpening and looking forward to using them!

Warpy

(111,254 posts)
4. I tend to favor super hard MAC knives
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:50 PM
Jan 2013

that are sort of in the middle of the good knife price range. They are not easy to sharpen, but generally last a good 10 years if you just take off surface burrs with a piece of exposed clay on a hand thrown pot, of which I have dozens.

I have resharpened 30 year old MAC knives, but I had to get this to accomplish it:

http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-220-Sharpener-Stainless/dp/B0039SLUI6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_2/175-7659293-3282110

I sharpened every knife in the house and it's time to use it again on everything but the MAC knives. Those won't be due for another 10 years or so.

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
18. Be careful - the Mac knives originally come with a 15 degree edge...
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jan 2013

They recommend the 'Rollsharp' and sell them for $16.50 through the Mac site, but it is *exactly* the same as the Fiskars roller sharpener ($9.99 at amazon) and this one from Ikea:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/57145296/

The Ikea one is $6.99.

I *love* my Mac knives. They came from the box with a razor-blade-like edge that made cutting anything a pure joy. I got the 8" MTH-80 Chef's and 6-1/2" MSK-65 Santoku from their 'Professional' series. Quick touch-up with a ceramic has kept them fine-edged. They can still slice a radish so finely that the slice is a transparent window with a little red edging (not generally useful, but great fun to show people).

For other general sharpening (other than hard-bladed, 15-degree Japanese blades) the best I've seen is the V-Sharp Classic-II 'Warthog', but it only goes down to a 20 degree edge angle. (It looks complex, but it is great for a person who is unsure about their sharpening skills, as it will get the perfect blade angle pretty much every time.)

Spending a little money on good knives and keeping them sharp is one of the best things you can do for your prep skills. One good side-effect is that if you're handling a blade that you know is as sharp as a razor you tend to pay a little closer attention to what you're doing at the time.

kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
20. Thank you for the good info!
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:15 PM
Jan 2013

I always like to try new things, so having heard about MAC knives from you and other people, I may try one.

I guess there are really just 2 reasons I cut myself so much. The first one is that I have MS, and my left hand doesn't work so well. Since I'm right handed, my left hand is the one that holds what I'm cutting. I've done the "curling the fingers under" thing, and cut my knuckles. So, Dan bought me one of them there Kevlar gloves, and it works a treat. When I remember to wear it. So that part is my fault, LOL!

But you are correct...now that I have sharp knives all the time....I definitely am more careful!

mopinko

(70,089 posts)
6. i got a wustoff sharpener for xmas and i love it.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:12 PM
Jan 2013

just makes it so easy and quick. has a polisher for a quick touch up, or for serrated knifes.
but, yeah, if they aren't wicked sharp, they are far more dangerous. and tedious.

mopinko

(70,089 posts)
11. busy as a one armed paper hanger.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:36 PM
Jan 2013

we bought the 2 flat adjacent to the farm out of foreclosure, and it has me tied in knots. great deal, great interest rate, and a great deal of protection for our property rights. but so much work, also so much brain crushing planning and shopping. got a couple good workers, but keeping up with them is a lot of work and a lot of pressure.
did take a few days off to go to the inauguration, which was extremely fucking awesome.
dying to get back to just being a farmer again, tho.

how are things with you? when you going to sail up to chicago?

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
12. Well, huge congratulations on you acquisitions.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jan 2013

We will be taking an extensive road trip this summer and will be stopping at my son's farm in Texas, which I can't wait to see.

But no plans to get up to Chicago this time.

Glad to see you back and hope you are enjoying what you are doing.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
27. Which sharpener did you get...
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:54 AM
Jan 2013

if you don't mind me asking. Those are the knives I use. My husband bought me my beginner set a few years ago and we are always adding to it. I love those knives. I would like to use the sharpener if you say it's good. Currently I use this..

mopinko

(70,089 posts)
28. this one.
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:26 AM
Jan 2013

you really need to grind them from time to time. i have a real motley collection of knives, and it is great to be able to really sharpen them any time i need to. i have several wustohofs, but also several "heirlooms" that i can't bear to part with.



ps- the place i snatched this pic has this for a decent price.

 

guardian

(2,282 posts)
32. That is a picture of a knife steel
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:21 AM
Feb 2013

It helps smooth out roughness, leaving a nice straight edge on the knife. But after a certain point a knife will need to be resharpened by actually grinding away some steal. You'll need an actual sharpener for that.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
14. I use the Chef's Choice 3 stage
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:09 PM
Jan 2013

I have sharpened knifes many different ways. The Chef's Choice sharpener is probably not the best way, but it does do a good job and it's fast. I have a lot of knives to sharpen and this knocks them all out at once. I only have to do a full sharpen a couple of times per year. I use the stropping stage before each use in lieu of steeling which maintains an edge longer.

LancetChick

(272 posts)
19. Ditto
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 05:59 PM
Jan 2013

Using that "sharpening steel" slot before each use is so important because, as you said, it maintains the edge for much longer. I didn't use to bother doing that, and had to sharpen my knives more often. After a while, I noticed that one of my older knives wasn't chopping thoroughly (sliced green onions still attached to each other, for example) and realized that the blade had been sharpened so many times it was narrower than the "hilt" and the back of the knife wasn't even touching the cutting board. So now I buzz it once through once before every use and I haven't had to really sharpen them in forever.

As far as sharpening knives on the bottom of a mug, I saw a Jacques Pepin show where he sharpened a knife on the unglazed bottom of a ceramic dinner plate (he put water on it)... it worked really well! I like my electric sharpener, though.

Jazzgirl

(3,744 posts)
31. I too ditto the Chef's Choice.
Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:36 PM
Jan 2013

I've had three of them. I had the two stage my Mom gave me back in 1983 that I used for years. Then a couple of years ago I bought the M150 which is an excellent sharpener, especially for American and European knives. I gave it to a friend of mine a few weeks ago and bought the Pro 1520 which is awesome. I have also been acquiring Japanese knives and needed something that could handle the angle of all of them. This one does.

Chef's Choice sharpeners are about the highest rated sharpeners there are. They are easy to use and very safe. After 30 years I haven't ruined any knives.

I have never been able to tolerate a dull knife. Even when I was young with my few knives every few weeks I would go to my favorite butcher and they would sharpen all my knives beautifully. I got pretty spoiled. I get so disappointed when I go to other people's homes and help out by dicing veggies. It's usually like using the backside of a knife!

BarbaRosa

(2,684 posts)
15. For years I've used a EzeLap Steel,
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:18 PM
Jan 2013

it's an (approx.) 2"x4"x1/4" chunk of steel with a diamond coating on one side for sharpening and a Case ceramic hone for honing.

I find the trick is to sharpen regularly and hone often. Easier to keep knives sharp than to sharpen from dull.

My 2¢

pinto

(106,886 posts)
16. A "reliable source" told me that really sharp knives are safer than dull ones.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:25 PM
Jan 2013

(That would be my niece, she's a professional chef so I appreciate her opinion.)

Keeping in mind that you have to watch what you're doing, she said a fine edge does the work. Let the knife do it...

If it's a struggle to slice up stuff you either have the wrong blade for the job or it's just dull. And that leads to those inadvertent accidents.

She offered this advice, along with the first knuckle down style slice since I've had a few notable cuts.

kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
21. Hi Pinto...
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:20 PM
Jan 2013

I would like to ask you for a favour. Could you please ask your niece a question for me? Even with a sharp knife...cutting hard shell type squash, like butternut, or acorn, scares the hell out of me. What would your niece suggest for cutting this type of squash? A cleaver? I never know what to use, and I end up using my chef's knife, but it seems inadequate for the job. Thank you!

pinto

(106,886 posts)
24. Hi. I've emailed her.
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:27 PM
Jan 2013

She works at a winery / resort so Sunday is probably a pretty busy day for her, but I'll let you know what feedback I eventually get.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
26. Here's her response -
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jan 2013
I have a link for this article... hope it helps.

I always use a large chef's knife and carefully cantilever it as I work my way around a squash (keeping in mind at all times what is most likely going to happen with the blade tip... sometimes I let the gravity work for me by inserting the knife tip far enough in the squash so that it is stuck, then lift the squash and knife together and carefully thump the squash down onto my cutting board so that the knife begins to crack the flesh.

Once I have cracked more than half the squash, I can carefully pull out the knife and just smack the squash down onto the board and it will split based on the fact that it is already so far along.

http://www.ciaosamin.com/2012/01/home-ec-guide-to-knives-you-actually.html

I also like to use a two handled cheese knife for toggling back and forth until you split the squash.


~ pinto

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
17. I've been using the same knife for over 20 years now.
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 08:33 AM
Jan 2013

It was a cheap carbon steel 8 inch blade with a wooden handle. I think it cost me about $5 at the time. Whenever it gets dull, I give it a few strokes on a whetstone and I'm good to go. The blade is now about half as wide as it was from all the sharpening. I use it for everything. Veggies, meat-even as a joint separator, breads. At times it's even functioned as a can opener.

Paladin

(28,254 posts)
22. Good, Sharp Knives Are Wonderful.
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:22 PM
Jan 2013

We have a set of Sabatier knives that we've been using for almost 30 years, and they are still great. We generally take them to a professional sharpener when they need it; putting a serious edge on a knife is a skill which I've never quite mastered. Thanks for the small binder clip idea; I might give that a try.

kurtzapril4

(1,353 posts)
23. Apparently, it gives a good angle.
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 06:28 PM
Jan 2013

I *think* that for most chef's knives you want a 20-22 degree angle. Which is where the binder clip comes in. The Japanese knives, from what I understand, use a 15 degree angle, and are hyper sharp.

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