Brining the Thanksgiving turkey - suggestions?

[csziggy]

I went out today and tried to do all my Thansksgiving dinner makings. This will be the first time in a long time I have cooked my own Thanksgiving meal. Usually we go to the in laws, but there has been no invite this year so I'm planning on my own!

On the way home, NPR Science Friday had a segment on the chemistry of cooking the Thanksgiving meal. They dealt with cranberry sauce, making mashed potatoes that are not gluey, and finally cooking the turkey. The chemist who Ira Flato had on said she was in favor of brining the turkey.

I've never brined anything but this sounds interesting. According to the guest it would be moister and actually cook faster. Since I've gotten the turkey early - and found once I got home that there really isn't room in the freezer for it - I have time to thaw out the turkey and brine it before next Thursday.

I've looked at a few recipes for brining - on the Food Network (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alexandra-guarnaschelli/thanksgiving-turkey-brine-recipe.html), Good Eats (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/good-eats-roast-turkey-recipe.html) and AllRecipes (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/thanksgiving-turkey-brine/). So far, I'm tending towards the last recipe. The first two seem very sweet and I prefer a more savory bird.

Any suggestions, recipes, links?

[littlewolf]

1. brining is good for the white meat makes it moister.

America's test kitchen is usually where I go for recipes

[csziggy]

2. I didn't think about America's Test Kitchen!

Meanwhile, I found this site: http://whatscookingamerica.net/Poultry/BriningPoultry.htm Which has a nice set of guidelines without a specific recipe. Using those giudelines, I can brine the turkey with seasonings to mesh with the rest of the meal.

Off to America's Test Kitchen!

ETA - Dang, you have to be a member to even read their turkey brine page. And I'm tired of signing up for sites I seldom use or need.

[Warpy]

3. You don't need it for a lot of commercial birds

because they've been pre brined to add to the weight. Yes, I'm cynical.

If you have one from a local grower, the best way to do it is in a clean food grade 5 gallon bucket in a garage that stays cold but not freezing and is safe from predators including thieving bastard pet dogs.

Just a basic salt and sugar mixture, available online, should do it. What it does is salt the meat and add a little extra moisture, good in meat that tends to be totally flavorless and dry. The sugar doesn't make it sweet at all, it just ups the osmotic pressure to get the water and salt into the bird.

Seasonings don't penetrate poultry all that well, IMO.

I usually cook a very plain bird because all the fancy stuff I've tried has been rather a flop, the bird has always tasted like turkey, meaning not much, and the pan gravy has been weird. The advantage to buttering it up and shoving into the oven with maybe a little black pepper, onion powder and poultry seasoning with the butter is that the pan gravy is always wonderful.

Turkey is one meat that desperately calls for flavorful sides.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

4. Check the label on the turkey

If it mentions anything about a flavor enhancing liquid, or mentions salt or sodium of any kind. DON'T brine it. I had one that had been placed in the wrong bin or something like that,and ended up brining it twice.
It tasted horrible, way too salty.

The written word was invented to help others avoid making the same mistakes you did.

[Warpy]

5. I can read, too

and ASSuming I made that mistake is insulting.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

14. Taking offense where none is intended?

Last edited Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I only want to warn others not to repeat my mistake. I was meaning to "second" your post.


Posting from a tablet most of the time means I have to be brief.

And ASSuming I was talking to you, not the whole board, is a bit much. Get over yourself.

[The empressof all]

6. That is absolutely dead on correct

If you do happen to get a natural turkey that is not already injected with chemicals and you do choose to brine be aware that the salt content of the bird could impact your gravy.

I never brine but I do use lots of butter under the skin and baste frequently. I have used the cheese cloth method but Meh....it never seemed worth the effort to me

The last few years I used an inverted cooker so the turkey actually sits on a ceramic cone that is filled with liquid. I use white wine and butter. This is basically a larger sized version of the beer can chicken approach.

The bird almost comes out too juicy and fall apart tender and the wine enhanced drippings are great for gravy

I have a new oven this year. It's a terrific double oven but I'm not sure if the cooker will fit. Guess I better get it out and try it.

[csziggy]

7. Yeah - this bird has stuff already added, so I can't brine it

Oh well, now that I know how to do it, next time (maybe for Christmas) I will look for a locally grown turkey or one not treated. They did have "natural" turkeys - for five times the cost per pound.

I wonder if I could soak the bird with unsalted liquid that include lots of flavor. Heat up some cider with some herbs and soak the turkey overnight? Would that work or just make it soggy?

[Warpy]

8. Flavors without brine (salt) do nothing

except create a few gallons of expensive water.

With salt, some of the flavors might penetrate the skin, but the bird would then be oversalted.

Best advice: leave it alone this year. Just butter it up and shove it into the oven. Enjoy the sides and the gravy and be thankful you didn't have to fuss.

[csziggy]

10. I think I'll do the other method of flavoring - putting stuff under the skin

Melt some butter, mix in some herbs, let it cool and set up a little, then spread it under the skin over the breast. I've done variations of that in the past and it does add moisture and flavor to the breast. I also like to put aromatics inside the body - usually I just use the trimmings from the onions and celery I put into the dressing, maybe cut up a carrot and add to them.

Next year - if I remember - I'll look for a turkey that has not already been injected and try brining!

[fizzgig]

9. here's a link to the atc turkey recipe we use

http://www.madeinmykitchen.com/2014/10/atk-old-fashioned-stuffed-turkey.html?m=1

the bird comes out beautifully.

[csziggy]

11. That's a lot like what I did the last time I cooked a turkey

But I won't put salt under the skin because this turkey has been injected with stuff. Maybe I'll put herbs and butter under the skin. I do like their dressing recipe (even if they call it stuff despite the fact it isn't cooked inside the bird ) - I've added eggs to the dressing and it keeps it moister and makes it hold together better.

I also like the idea of cooking the turkey breast side down - and they give some good timing on how long and to what temperature to cook it before turning it over.

Thanks!

[fizzgig]

12. we did a compound butter under the skin one year

i think it is a brilliant idea to combine the two

[csziggy]

13. Thanks - couldn't think of the name "compound butter"

Right now I don't even want to think about cooking. We just finished dinner - meatloaf, mixed vegetables (Normandy blend from Costco with broccoli, cauliflower, carrots and summer squash), and onion baked potatoes (red potatoes cut into bite sized pieces mixed with oil, onion soup mix and Kirkland's salt free seasoning mix, baked until crispy outside, soft inside). It turned out good!

[MrMickeysMom]

15. The brine I'll be using for my smoker has gotten down to simplicity

If I'm gonna smoke that bird, I'll brine it.

I'll gather stuff (like tomorrow) like a large bird (18-22 lbs, preferred).

I use a combination of water, picking salt, some maple syrup, dry vermouth, crumbled dry bay leaf, some small chopped onion and garlic and fresh ground pepper. I will bag the thawed, clean bird in clean (non fragranced) garbage bags. I'll turn a few times over 1 to 2 days in the fridge, then the day of smoking, I'll pour the brine down the sink, rinse the heck out of the bird, then air dry the bird for an hour in open air prior to smoking it.

[betsuni]

16. Once I started brining, I couldn't go back.

I have some chicken wings sitting in a cranberry/cinnamon brine right now. Will make a cranberry-mustard sauce to coat after baking and serve them nestled in a bed of rosemary (the only herb on my balcony garden that survives my ungreen thumb management). My favorite brine for turkey, chicken, pork, or salmon is apple juice brine, especially good for smoking. Salt, brown sugar, juice or cider, cinnamon sticks, bay leaves, rosemary, onions, black peppercorns, fennel and celery seeds (in winter I like to add stronger spices like cloves and allspice). Apple juice reduction with a little rice vinegar to dribble on after cooking. I've brined with lots of fruit juices and it has never turned out too sweet. Maybe try brining with chicken or salmon before a turkey? As someone else mentioned, the drippings from a brined turkey will be very salty, so if making gravy caution is advised.

Oh, and when I bake apple-brined chicken I layer the baking pan with slices of potato, sweet potato, squash, onion, celery and the like and add a little apple juice, some rosemary, and dust them with black pepper. The chicken goes on top so the salty fat gets absorbed by the vegetables as the meat cooks. Remove the chicken when it's done and put the vegetables back in the oven until they're done.

[grasswire]

17. whether brining or not...

...I always roast my turkey on top of some celery stalks and quartered onions. Makes for wonderful drippings.

And I meant to find some Bell's poultry seasoning in homage to my New England grandmother, but none in stores nearby. Gotta find some. That little paper box with the red turkey on it equals Thanksgiving to me.

[csziggy]

18. I usually put the aromatics inside the carcass - but I like the idea of putting some underneath

I don't have a rack, so a few stalks of celery would hold the turkey up off the bottom of the pan nicely. I use celery, onion, carrots - and this year I think I will get one lemon to put inside the cavity of the bird.

My poultry seasoning is one I got from the bulk herb bins at the local natural food store. They get all their herbs and spices from a local dealer who custom mixes any spice blends. Everything is very fresh and I can take my spice jars in, fill directly, and be sure I have the best quality from a local source.

Here's a copy cat Bell's seasoning recipe: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/669904 I'm not too sure about the oregano or ginger. Leave those out and that's what I used to mix on my own for my turkeys.

Yesterday I cut up all the vegetables for the dressing, sauteed them and put them up. I did three batches and froze two for future use. Today I need to go clean the kitchen, but the weather is awful and I'm really achy.

[Major Nikon]

19. There are some down sides to brining turkey

For one thing, the skin will turn out rubbery. Another problem is the natural flavor of the meat will be diluted by the brine solution because while the salt molecules are going in, natural flavor molecules are going out. Another problem is you have to figure out how to keep your turkey and the brine solution between 33-40F for a day or two while it's brining.

There's basically two reasons to brine. One is to prevent moisture loss during cooking and the other is to season the interior of the meat. You can accomplish both of these goals by simply salting your turkey. The process is very simple. You just dust the outside of the turkey liberally with kosher salt, wrap with plastic cling wrap, and store the turkey in the fridge overnight. The salt will combine with the turkey's natural juices and migrate into the bird the same way a brine does, except you are not diluting and removing the natural flavors from the bird.

If you do chose to brine, I recommend a simple 7% brine solution (salt makes up 7% by weight) and forget using any other seasonings, sugar, stock, and especially anything acidic. Salt is a very small molecule and can easily penetrate the muscle meat fibers. Other seasonings, not so much.

[csziggy]

20. I may just reserve brining for some year if we ever bag a wild turkey

I can see how with a wild bird, it would be good to brine since they are leaner and the meat drier.

I don't want to salt the turkey - no need to add extra sodium to our diet and it makes the drippings and stock too salty. I always use the carcass to make stock!

For this year I will make compound butter with lots of herbs and spread that under the skin over the breast. Then I will put some aromatics in and around the turkey - they may not add a lot of flavor to the meat, but they will to the drippings and to the stock I will make.

Thanks!

[SheilaT]

21. I have never brined a turkey, but then I'm always buying a commercial

one that probably already has salt water injected.

I don't get the complaints that so many people make about turkey not having much flavor. Excuse me? It's vastly more flavorful than chicken, especially the dark meat, which I love. Or that it's impossible to cook properly without the breast being dry and inedible. Again, what are others doing wrong? Maybe not stuffing it, which has become so popular because supposedly it's not possible to cook the stuffing inside the turkey without somehow giving all the guests food poisoning, maybe that's the problem. The inside of the bird is empty, so the breast part simply heats up way too much.

Or, I am beginning to wonder if the popularity of the disposable aluminum roasting pans is the source of the problem. Some twenty or more years ago I bought a heavy duty metal roasting pan and rack (I think it's a Calphalon brand) and not only does the turkey bake faster by a very noticeable amount, because the metal retains heat in a way aluminum does not, it simply roasts better.

I also love turkey, so back when I was married and my sons still lived at home, it was something I'd bake more often than just Thanksgiving and Christmas. For a lot of people they only make a turkey once a year, at Thanksgiving, and so never get the chance to feel confident in doing in.

Anyway, happy turkey baking to all!