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Mon Feb 15, 2021, 08:28 PM

I need to find a particlur type of connector

I've got some vintage cast iron horse and wagon pieces. Various wagons - grocery, Coca Cola, ladder wagon, fire tank wago, and a beer wagon.

Most are in good to very good condition but I just bought two that while in good condition, need some work. There is a piece, maybe a screw that holds a pair of horses to the double yoke that helps them pull the wagon. Since on the horses that are already attached you only see the brass ends, I am not sure if they are similar to Chicago screw or a rivet. The brass ends are flat on both ends, with no place to use a screw.

I only have two pairs of horses without this attachment, the beer wagon horses need a piece about 3 1/2" and the ladder wagon horses need one only about 2 1/4"

If I knew what this was called, I might could find what I need

By the way, these pieces are vintage, not true antique. They are probably between 40 and 60 years old. They are fairly crudely made, but overall they make a nice collection so I'd love to have the whole set ready to display.

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Reply I need to find a particlur type of connector (Original post)
csziggy Feb 15 OP
LunaSea Feb 15 #1
csziggy Feb 15 #3
LunaSea Feb 15 #7
rampartc Feb 15 #8
rampartc Feb 15 #2
csziggy Feb 15 #4
Clearly fogged in Feb 15 #5
csziggy Feb 15 #9
Kali Feb 15 #6
csziggy Feb 15 #11
MN2theMax Feb 15 #10
csziggy Feb 15 #12
csziggy Feb 16 #13

Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 08:54 PM

1. Got photos?

They would be very helpful.

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Response to LunaSea (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:03 PM

3. Here are a couple of good close ups from an eBay auction

Not my pieces, but this is the same vintage wagon I have:



You can see the flat brass end just in front of the screw that holds each horse together.

This next picture shows the silver shaft of whatever the connector is, going through one horse, the double tree, then through the second horse.



The auction I stole these images from is at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cast-Iron-Beer-wagon-and-8-horses-Nice-piece/164610553314?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D5d963be5c7164eaeb524bb7006aa8b6b%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D233893151926%26itm%3D164610553314%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

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Response to csziggy (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:31 PM

7. Much clearer now

thanks.
Rivet seems likely, but test if one of the others might unscrew. I've seen custom bolts that have screw on heads or thread in the middle from this era.

A quick solution might be to find a couple of nails with similar head shape and enough length (or can be cut to) to meet in the middle. A bit of epoxy to hold it and a dab of brass paint to match the others.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:31 PM

8. i'm tempted to say that looks like a chicago screw

IF that hole is 3/16" or larger that might be the first thing i'd try. they come in varying lengths and the cheapest/easiest to procure are at the office depot. different finishes and materials are available but that 3/16" diameter is constant.

https://www.binding101.com/binding/binding-supplies/screw-posts?msclkid=a2c2c71cba5716ab08daa737a319ab21&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NX_NTM_Search_Binding%20Supplies%20(L)&utm_term=chicago%20binding%20screws&utm_content=Screw%20Posts%20-%20Aluminum

carriage bolts come in every diameter and length at your local hardware store. some thread might show between horses but that could be covered by running through tubing stock or even heat shrink tube.

sort of puts me in mind of a "20 mule team" model i had as a kid.

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 08:55 PM

2. any photos or manufacturers data?

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Response to rampartc (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:05 PM

4. See my reply to the first response above.

Some of the eBay auctions mention a manufacturer, but it was not important to me, so I didn't make note of it.

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:19 PM

5. Sex bolt

Maybe look up some of the names suggested here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_bolt

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Response to Clearly fogged in (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:34 PM

9. Yeah, I saw a post about those the other day maybe in the Lounge

They would do the job but I can't find any with flat heads and without even a slot for a screwdriver. I'll hunt some more with that as my search parameter.

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 09:20 PM

6. Looks like some kind of rivet, but

I would bet you could make something with some sort of hollow tubing or long ferules that you could use a screw in, or even some kind of epoxy type of a situation.

Of course I would use bailing wire.

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Response to Kali (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 10:00 PM

11. Well, bailing wire would hold them together

But I'd really like to emulate the originals even if I'm not doing a full restoration.

I'm thinking the easiest thing to settle on would be a sex blot aka Chicago screw. I had a whole stash of short ones that were melted down when the barn burned. If I use the male ends where visible and used some sort of tube the right size to screw (or glue) them into, that might work.

Another option would be binding posts like are used to hold big scrapbooks together. You can get extensions to lengthen them and one end is flat, while the other end has a very shallow slot to screw them together. Problem is, they don't often come in brass - but I could paint them brass color. I might even have some of those, if I can remember where they are.

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Response to MN2theMax (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 15, 2021, 10:10 PM

12. Yes, that is what I am thinking would be easiest

I've used binding posts a lot with scrapbooks. They come in different lengths and you can get extensions to make them longer. I know I don't have any brass ones, but if I can find some brass ends, I can use the extensions I have in the middle.

OOOH! McMaster-Carr has brass binding posts in the lengths I need! They're a bit expensive, but they would be as close as possible.
https://www.mcmaster.com/brass-rivets/brass-low-profile-binding-barrels-and-screws/

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Response to csziggy (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 16, 2021, 06:00 PM

13. Well, I dug out the binding posts I have and they are too fat to go through the holes

I measured the shafts of the fasteners on the other horses and the shaft is 1/8" in diameter with heads 1/4" in diameter.

This makes it much more difficult. McMaster-Carr's smallest binding posts diameters are 3/16" which might possibly fit, but I am not willing to pay for them on the off chance. Plus they don't have plain flat heads, they have Phillips/flat slots.

So my next idea is to find brass nail head double cap rivets and a shaft (piece of heavy wire or thin rod) that will fit between and drive the rivets onto the wire or rod. Although in the original the heads on the sides are brass, the shaft between is gray color, some generic metal.

Since the double cap rivets are used in leather work, I may call a local shoe shop and see if they have them. Or, my husband knows a guy who makes belts - he probably has them by the hundreds and I only need four - unless I replace all the same parts on the rest of the team for the beer wagon, then I'd need eighteen. Sixteen for the eight horses on the beer wagon and a pair for the horses on the ladder wagon.

OK, I found some "rapid rivets" at Tandy Leather with the right size heads, 100 for $3.99 that might work. That's little enough money to try them out!

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