Right now, NPR: Chicago's 506 murders are very "concentrated, local" problem.

[Eleanors38]

More "clique problem than gang problem." Violence also linked to tearing down large public housing facilities, causing "spread" of violence. Noted same kind of homicide characteristics in Phil., Dallas, others. Interviewees also say the street murders are concentrated in areas of extreme poverty, while other areas of Chi have few homicides. This, while the murder rates are declining nationally, suggests a more local problem than a uniform national problem.

KUT, Austin.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. socioeconmic and geographical factors. imagine that.

[jimmy the one]

2. the local problem, in chicago

eleanors: Interviewees also say the street murders are concentrated in areas of extreme poverty, while other areas of Chi have few homicides. This, while the murder rates are declining nationally, suggests a more local problem than a uniform national problem.

Agree. The 2010 supreme court decision made chicago's handgun ban illegal, & now chicagoans can have handguns. So you introduce more guns into chicago & you have more murders, over 500 last year. What a surprise.
Thus I agree with you, that is the 'local' problem. More Guns in chicago.

[gejohnston]

3. no they can't

In its place is a registration scheme that requires range time. Problem is that there are no ranges allowed in Chicago. So, it is still a defacto ban. That is why Chicago pays so much money to SAF and NRA.
Since all gun owners in Illinois are registered, are gang members getting FOIDS?
So, there are no more more legal handguns in Chicago than before.

[DonP]

4. Except ... you don't have "more handguns" in Chicago

That's a popular gun grabber myth, that immediately after McDonald everybody is suddenly carrying in Chicago and stocked their house with guns. Sure, Otis McDonald got a nice presentation model .45 ACP that he wanted from Springfield Armory, but everybody else, not so much.

Between the requirement for training (city council still hasn't defined the required training) and range time at an approved range (and there are no approved ranges in the city) in the current set of Chicago laws and the need to still have your gun registered with the police, there hasn't been a whole lot of change in the number of legal guns in Chicago.

Well, except Alderman Richard Mel (a big gun collector) just paid 5 figures for a nice pair of matched sequential serial numbered 1st generation Colts at the Rock Island auction last month.

[Eleanors38]

6. Uh, you still can't get a gun. Unless you're a criminal.

Chicago's leaders are still fighting the ruling.

Things don't change overnight by just adding water and...PRESTO! Chicago remains a gun-ban town. Until they lose some more tax-payer-funded lawsuits.

[Dkc05]

5. Ban all guns to get them off the street

Enough is enough. Guns kill innocent people. Get them off the street. Ban them. If the House and Senate won't do it then President Obama has a Mandate from the people to invoke a gun ban. He just needs to have the ATF do it our elected officials don't have the guts to deal with this issue.

[Clames]

7. Chicago tried that gun ban thing.

It was a failure too. President can't ban them and he had no such mandate. ATF can't do it either. Sorry, never going to happen...

[Dkc05]

11. For the good of our country he needs to ban them

There are so many senseless killings happening because of them. Guns are for law enforcement only. EOM.

[Clames]

15. The President doesn't support your idea.

He won't ban guns in violation of the Constitution. Just something you will learn to live with.

[krispos42]

16. You mean the attack dogs of the plutocracy? n/t

[DonP]

19. Did you ever take basic civics course? You know 3 branches, balance of powers stuff? N/T

[cmclane28]

27. Please compare the CDC numbers

Compare the number of senseless killings with guns to the number of killings by automobiles. If we are talking purely about senseless deaths, ALL firearms deaths (including suicides, which I don't think should be counted, but I am in this case) total about 31,000 per year (18,000 are suicides), whereas car accidents are about 34,000.

So cars are only for professional drivers? Sorry, I just don't believe the amount of fear that guns cause in some people, causing them to want the president of the United States to bypass the Constitution and just be a dictator because it will be best for the people. Give me a break please.

[Puha Ekapi]

8. Our President...

...has no such mandate. BTW, what planet are you from?

[Dkc05]

10. He was elected in a landslide. That is a mandate

He has the power to do what he wants by executive order. Just watch him.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Actually he doesn't

BATF's role and authority is carefully defined in law, just in case some president or agency head wanted to do what you call for

[holdencaufield]

20. We elected a president ...

... not a dictator.

Are you genuinely unaware of the difference?

[Dkc05]

22. He has a mandate from us to do what is in our best collective interest

So making an executive order to ban weapons is ok with me. It's safety we want when we go to Shul or school.

[holdencaufield]

23. My shul has armed private security.

I feel VERY safe and some congregants carry.

And a US President cannot issue an order -- executive or otherwise -- to violate the US Constitution. The 2nd Amendment was put in said Constitution precisely to deal with a government that oversteps its authority to such a degree.

[Dkc05]

24. That is a good think

Having private security in a shul is a necessary thing.

[holdencaufield]

25. I'm glad you realise ...

... that this world isn't made of candy canes, unicorns and good intentions. There are arseholes out there, arseholes with guns. A gun ban would do nothing to change that -- arseholes don't care about your bans.

All a gun ban would do -- besides being immediately struck down by the Supreme Court -- would remove defensive firearms from homes, schools -- and shuls -- and leave the arseholes armed.

It's not a coincidence that when an arsehole is looking for a place to make his suicide a statement he inevitably chooses a "gun-free zone" such as a school or a place of worship. He knows that he will be free to leisurely rack up a significant body count in the hour or more it will take the police to respond, attempt to reason with, and finally take action against him. That hour or more is precisely what he needs to get his face and name splashed all over every news paper and TV in the free world. Then -- in his sick arsehole mind -- his suicide, either by cop or his own hand, will have some meaning.

Remove "gun-free zones" and you remove the incentive for sick arseholes to find their path to glory through taking the lives of innocent kids or worshipers.

[sylvi]

28. It's a "mandate" to carry out the policies he campaigned on

Not carte blanche approval of any and everything he might do.

[Dkc05]

29. Raise taxes on the wealthy to pay off the debt.

Its a good mandate that he needs to follow. either by legislation or by executive order.

[Puha Ekapi]

31. Yes, he ran primarily on economic issues...

...and voters expect him to follow through. That is his mandate, not gun control.

[sylvi]

32. That's an example of one of his mandates

Draconian gun restrictions, not so much.

[Puha Ekapi]

30. Ummm....no.

He wasn't elected by a wide margin on the promise of gun control, in fact, if he had ran on a strong gun control platform it is entirely possible he would never have been elected in the first place. If he goes too far with this, it is also likely that would do extensive and long term damage to the Democratic Party, and we would almost certainly see the Senate return to Republikan kontrol in 2014, and very possibly a Republikan President in 2016. Is that what you want???

[jimmy the one]

9. 16000 in mar 2012, how many now?

johnston: In its place is a registration scheme that requires range time. Problem is that there are no ranges allowed in Chicago. So, it is still a defacto ban.

Zamora {of chicago} will be the first to tell you he's a gun guy—he owns seven handguns and four rifles. He likes to shoot at a suburban range for sport, but he says that's not the main reason he has them.

03/18/2012 Meanwhile, the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757 since the city passed an ordinance two years ago allowing residents to have handguns at home. Since the law went in effect, Chicago Police Dept has issued 4,307 firearm permits. This 'steady increase' probably is comprised of mostly handguns.

johnston: So, there are no more more legal handguns in Chicago than before."

the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757

DonP Except ... you don't have "more handguns" in Chicago

the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757

That's a popular gun grabber myth..

the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757

current set of Chicago laws and the need to still have your gun registered with the police, there hasn't been a whole lot of change in the number of legal guns in Chicago.

the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/18/gun-rights-lawsuits-target-chicago

01/26/12 CHICAGO (CBS) – Significantly more Chicagoans are arming themselves with guns.
Gun Owner ID Cards Soar In Chicago CBS Chicago over the past two years, the city has seen a 16% spike in the number of people holding state Firearm Owner’s Identification Cards.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. For a city the size of Chicago, that is almost none.

Dallas, which is a smaller city, probably has over a million guns.

[Eleanors38]

14. 16,000. wow. that's like Taylor, Tx. Can we say: Atoll in the Pacific?

[gejohnston]

17. you moved the goal post

we were speaking of pistols in particular, not firearms in general.

[DonP]

21. 4,037 new gun permits, not just handguns, is next to nothing statistically

Wow!!!

With 2.7 million people that's almost a rise in gun ownership of .01%!

No wonder there are so many shootings since the McDonald decision.

Try to sound even a little less informed, if that's possible.

[realism101]

26. 80%

80% of Chicago's murders are gang-related. How about if we ban gangs, instead?

Oh, and by the way, from the same article you quoted:

"What's more, Chicago's gun law is rarely used to lock up offenders because state and federal statues carry much heavier penalties. Just 79 people a year, on average, have been convicted of violating city gun ordinances since 1982, Dan Mihalopoulos and I reported last year in a story for the Chicago News Cooperative. "It's just an extra ticket you can hit them with," says the cop. "But the bad guys are not getting their guns legitimately and they're never going to."

Andrew Papachristos, a sociologist at the University of Massachusetts who studies gangs and gun crimes in Chicago, argues that gun laws should focus on the people perpetuating violence and the illegal ways they're getting weapons. "We're not talking about your father's guns—we're talking about guns used in crimes," he says. "It's the felons in possession of guns—that's really where the efforts should be."

Wow, imagine that, gun laws that aren't being enforced. Instead of punishing criminals, you want to punish law-abiding citizens. Then again, that's typical.

[guardian]

18. Damn those murderous, psychotic, impotent, rural, white guys!!!

Apparently that is the problem demographic according to many DUers.

[jimmy the one]

33. chicago handgun ban gone, murders up, fact

eleanors: Uh, you still can't get a gun. Unless you're a criminal.

the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757

Chicago's leaders are still fighting the ruling. Things don't change overnight by just adding water and...PRESTO! Chicago remains a gun-ban town.

Hasn't been 'overnight', it's going on two years now. You should realize, predominance of chicagoans just might not want guns.

Although the Supreme Court forced Chicago to rewrite its ordinance in 2010, gun rights supporters argue that some provisions are unconstitutional. In federal lawsuits, they are seeking to overturn the city's ban on retail gun stores and remove restrictions such as forbidding guns in a yard or a front porch.

.. but you can buy legal guns, lady.

You want the best of both worlds. Undid the handgun ban, murders go up, still blame it on the handgun ban.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
johnston: you moved the goal post .. we were speaking of pistols in particular, not firearms in general

I noted in a top post that of the 16,000 increase, probably 'most' were comprised of handguns. It's higher by now, that was march 2012, so add several thousands more, perhaps total firearm increase doubled.

who changed the goalposts???: johnston: So, there are no more more legal handguns in Chicago than before."

In response to an unfavorable ruling by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, the City Council passed a measure in July {2012} reversing its ban on firing ranges. Gun advocates continued with the lawsuit, claiming city's guidelines for opening ranges unreasonable

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DonP: 4,037 new gun permits, not just handguns, is next to nothing statistically With 2.7 million people that's almost a rise in gun ownership of .01%!

No, it's a rise of approx .15%, you're an order of magnitude off, but it's a 'rise' from what? an increase from 1% gun ownership would be a 16% spike in gun ownership (dunno). And as I said, it's higher by now, maybe doubled.

and you changed the goalposts: DonP.. you don't have "more handguns" in Chicago That's a popular gun grabber myth..

.. the number of registered firearms in Chicago has steadily increased to 15,757
.. likely most comprsied of handguns.

[gejohnston]

34. How many were FOID holders with

registered handguns? Most likely zero.

[jimmy the one]

35. Morton Grove v Kennesaw

(Repost): Morton Grove, a suburb of chicago, banned handguns decades back & had the ban lifted about 2010 I imagine; lets compare how morton grove does with it's erstwhile handgun ban compared to kennesaw georgia where by law each household is required to possess a firearm. (Note 2010 stats would be ~pre-mcdonald)

2010--CrimeRateIndex -Kennesaw - US - MortonGrove
Total Crime Risk .............. 56 ... 100 ..... 35
Murder Risk.................... 27 ... 100 ..... 15
Rape Risk........................ 46 ... 100 ..... 42
Robbery Risk................... 38 ... 100 ..... 15
Assault Risk................... 16 ... 100 ..... 47
Burglary Risk.................. 54 ... 100 ..... 41
Larceny Risk.................... 64 ... 100 ..... 83
Auto Theft Risk................ 67 ... 100 ..... 33

http://www.clrsearch.com/Morton-Grove-Demographics/IL/Crime-Rate
http://www.clrsearch.com/Kennesaw-Demographics/Ga/Crime-Rate
Crime Risk Index (100 = National Average): Index score for an area is compared to the national average of 100. A score of 200 indicates twice the national average total crime risk, while 50 indicates half the national risk.

Dang, 6 of 8 for DA GROVE exceptin' larceny & assault. TOTAL crime risk Kennesaw 56, MG 35, the winner & still champ --- DA GROVE.

Am I cherry picking one bad year for kennesaw? nah, been about the same for past 15 yrs I been followin' it, DA grove's had about 30% lower crime rates than kennesaw on avg, & lower but about parity in property crime in one of kennesaws zip codes, & ~20% lower property crime rates than the other kennesaw zip.

2003 FBI stats deflates the myth of 'more guns less crime':
2003 Murder: Morton Grove 2 - Kennnesaw 1
2003 Robbery: Morton Grove 4 - Kennesaw 7
2003 Aggravated Assault: Morton Grove 12 - Kennesaw 15
2003 Larceny And Theft: Morton Grove 390 - Kennesaw 455
2003 Burglary; Morton Grove 70 - Kennesaw 89
Both cities with similar populations 22.966 Morton Grove and 25,183 Kennesaw. Similar demographics too, large white populations
Morton Grove is also a suburb of Chicago, gets spillover crime. Kennesaw is more rural.

MORE GUNS, MORE LIES

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. Why didn't you compare Chicago and Houston, the most similar city in size?

Oh, right- it mostly doesn't support your thesis, and that's using your source:

http://www.clrsearch.com/Houston-Demographics/TX/?compare=Chicago%2C+IL

Crime Rate Indexes
2010 Crime Rate Indexes Houston, TX Chicago, IL United States
Total Crime Risk Index 213 238 100
Murder Risk Index 235 356 100
Rape Risk Index 123 260 100
Robbery Risk Index 323 465 100
Assault Risk Index 199 289 100
Burglary Risk Index 193 122 100
Larceny Risk Index 152 133 100
Motor Vehicle Theft
Risk Index 241 212 100

Thanks for playing!

[jimmy the one]

37. houston, we got a problem

Why didn't you compare Chicago and Houston, the most similar city in size?

Why didn't I? Was I supposed to? Does houston mandate every household have a gun?
The stats between chicago & houston are near parity, total crime risk 213 - 238, 213 is 89% of 238 considered near parity, but of course houston has the marginally lower total crime risk.

Houston did have higher crime rates in 3 of the 7 felonies, altho chicago was higher in the 4 more violent crimes, assault robbery rape & murder:
Burglary Risk Index H-193 Chi-122
Larceny Risk Index H-152 Chi-133
Motor Vehicle Theft Risk Index H- 241 Chi-212 Houston, a thieves market

How about pro gun Memphis tennessee, which more dangerous? memphis hands down, only two felonies assault & murder is at parity, the other 5 memphis is worse:

2010 Crime Rate Memphis,TN ..... Chicago,IL
Total Crime Risk.. 364.............. 238
Murder Risk .......361.............. 356
Rape Risk..........342.............. 260
Robbery Risk...... 522.............. 465
Assault Risk...... 286.............. 289
Burglary Risk..... 366.............. 122
Larceny Risk...... 205.............. 133
MotVeh TheftRisk.. 374.............. 212

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. "(C)hicago was higher in the 4 more violent crimes, assault robbery rape & murder"

So what good were those gun restrictions?

And a gun is generally not neccessary when clouting cars or breaking and entering
or simply stealing stuff.

[jimmy the one]

39. memphis v chicago

icon: &quot C)hicago was higher in the 4 more violent crimes, assault robbery rape & murder"
So what good were those gun restrictions

I must've posted the stats table on memphis tennessee in invisible ink.
I'll try again & repost here:

2010 Crime Rate Memphis,TN ..... Chicago,IL
Total Crime Risk.. 364.............. 238
Murder Risk .......361.............. 356
Rape Risk..........342.............. 260
Robbery Risk...... 522.............. 465
Assault Risk...... 286.............. 289

Hope you can read them now; I emboldened memphis stats - note PRO GUN Memphis has higher rates than chicago in total crime risk, rape, robbery, while assault and murder are at parity.

icon: And a gun is generally not neccessary when clouting cars or breaking and entering
or simply stealing stuff.

2010 crime rate .. Memph ...........Chicago
Burglary Risk..... 366.............. 122
Larceny Risk...... 205.............. 133
MotVeh TheftRisk.. 374.............. 212

Except for carjacking I agree with you basically, but memphis still wins by a landslide in those relatively gunless felonies.