Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

jpak

(41,741 posts)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:06 PM Jan 2013

Data indicate drop in high-capacity magazines during federal gun ban

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/data-point-to-drop-in-high-capacity-magazines-during-federal-gun-ban/2013/01/10/d56d3bb6-4b91-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html

During the 10-year federal ban on assault weapons, the percentage of firearms equipped with high-capacity magazines seized by police agencies in Virginia dropped, only to rise sharply once the restrictions were lifted in 2004, according to an analysis by The Washington Post.

The White House is leading a push to reinstate a national ban on large capacity magazines and assault weapons after a gunman armed with an AR-15 and 30-round magazines killed 20 children and seven adults in Connecticut. Vice President Biden is holding advisory meetings this week to hammer out a course of action that will address the issue of the larger magazines, which under the lapsed federal ban were those that held 11 or more rounds of ammunition.

In Virginia, the Post found that the rate at which police recovered firearms with high-capacity magazines — mostly handguns and to a smaller extent rifles — began to drop around 1998, four years into the ban. It hit a low of 9 percent of the total number of guns recovered the year the ban expired, 2004.

The next year, the rate began to climb and continued to rise in subsequent years, reaching 20 percent in 2010, according to the analysis of a little-known Virginia database of guns recovered by police. In the period The Post studied, police in Virginia recovered more than 100,000 firearms, more than 14,000 of which had high-capacity magazines.

<more>

but...but...but.. we have been told that the AWB "didn't work".

Another gun nut myth bites the dust.

yup
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Data indicate drop in high-capacity magazines during federal gun ban (Original Post) jpak Jan 2013 OP
what defines working? bossy22 Jan 2013 #1
thank you for bringing us the truth, jpak. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #2
imagine that. more facts destroy the lies spoken by gun lovers samsingh Jan 2013 #3
And when the AWB expired gun deaths continued to decline. hack89 Jan 2013 #7
not true samsingh Jan 2013 #9
Numbers? AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #11
I imaging something therefore it must be true. nt Remmah2 Jan 2013 #17
Actually it is true. Skyline Jan 2013 #13
i wonder what all the fuzz is about then? samsingh Jan 2013 #21
that is all homicides combined gejohnston Jan 2013 #22
doesn't change the need for gun safety samsingh Jan 2013 #23
didn't say that. gejohnston Jan 2013 #25
that would be a useful study samsingh Jan 2013 #29
60 percent of those were suicides. nt Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #27
Go talk to the FBI about it hack89 Jan 2013 #19
the gun massacres we hear about and the innocent children being slaughtered samsingh Jan 2013 #24
media fixation on black swan events which, some times gejohnston Jan 2013 #26
the media needs to report the news samsingh Jan 2013 #31
yeah but the media shouldn't sensationalize it gejohnston Jan 2013 #32
agree they shouldn't make the shooter into some kind of anti-hero samsingh Jan 2013 #33
Is it really so hard to admit that you wrong? hack89 Jan 2013 #30
Numbers? AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #12
Here you go hack89 Jan 2013 #20
Of course the amount dropped. Skyline Jan 2013 #4
During the ban... krispos42 Jan 2013 #5
I went with the 10-round .40sw instead of the 11-round. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #6
.40 "Short&Weak", huh? I rolled with 10x10mm. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #8
Hard to find a good gun to shoot it from. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #10
Love 'em. I use a G29 and that thing is a hand cannon. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #14
10mm from a subcompact!?!?!?!?!?!!???? ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #15
135gr Nosler @ 1600fps & 165gr GDHP @ 1400fps ... it's like a semiauto .357 magnum-magnum! OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #16
Since I have smaller hands than most men, I prefer a semi-auto pistol with a single stack ... spin Jan 2013 #37
Data indicates AWB was worthless and did not affect crime as it was promised to do. Clames Jan 2013 #18
On that pennsy AWB study.... you left things out jimmy the one Jan 2013 #35
Talk about technical ignorance and lots of it. Clames Jan 2013 #36
OK, so what? Has any research suggested the number of high-capacity magazines affects crime rates? jody Jan 2013 #28
Since AWB, it's Fewer Gun Owners which resulted in less murders jimmy the one Jan 2013 #34

bossy22

(3,547 posts)
1. what defines working?
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:10 PM
Jan 2013

its authors told us that it will make us safer and that if it was repealed "blood would run in the street"

Meanwhile since its repeal violent crime has been decreasing and so has the murder rate

Its affect on violence in america is still up in the air. I don't count "success" as forcing criminals to use other weapons which have the same result.

 

Skyline

(35 posts)
13. Actually it is true.
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:14 AM
Jan 2013

[link:http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm|

1968 13,000 murders
1994(AWB date) 23,000 murders
2004(AWB ends) 16,000 murders
2011(more guns in USA than ever) 14,600 murders.

It's amazing that when the AWB expired and more and more guns flooded the USA murder has continued to drop.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
21. i wonder what all the fuzz is about then?
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:54 PM
Jan 2013

o wait, it's still 14,600 people that were killed by these fing guns

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
25. didn't say that.
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:15 PM
Jan 2013

One of the studies I would like to see done is why guns are used in a higher percentage of murders now than in previous decades. IIRC, guns were used in 58 percent of murders in 1965 vs about 70 percent today. The answer can't be laxer gun laws esp on the federal level.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
24. the gun massacres we hear about and the innocent children being slaughtered
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 03:10 PM
Jan 2013

are just illusions i guess.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
32. yeah but the media shouldn't sensationalize it
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jan 2013

and make the killer some kind of anti hero for a couple of weeks. That is when it goes from informing the public to greed and making copy cats.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
30. Is it really so hard to admit that you wrong?
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:48 PM
Jan 2013

why the cheap bs response? I never said deaths went to zero.

 

Skyline

(35 posts)
4. Of course the amount dropped.
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:13 PM
Jan 2013

When you make something illegal to manuf. of course the number in circulation will go down.

What the AWB did not do was reduce crime, just like the sunsetting of the AWB did not make murders increase. In that context the AWB did not work, it did not drastically reduce murder rates, and since its removal murder has not increased, in fact murder has continued to decline since 2004.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
5. During the ban...
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:29 PM
Jan 2013

...i'll bet many people picked a 7-round .45 over a 10-round 9mm.


Remember, lots of guns have single-stack 10-or-less magazines by design.

 

OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)
8. .40 "Short&Weak", huh? I rolled with 10x10mm.
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:22 AM
Jan 2013

lol, J/K. I know not everyone can handle the awesomeness that is the 10mm Auto. (Not even the FBI!)

 

OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)
14. Love 'em. I use a G29 and that thing is a hand cannon.
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:52 AM
Jan 2013

It's odd that they cal the g29 a subcompact because it's actually a hair wider and the same size as a "compact" G19. IMO, if they made a 7+1 single stack subcomp 10mm (like the 6+1 single stack G26 45acp), it would be the best carry weapon on the planet.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
15. 10mm from a subcompact!?!?!?!?!?!!????
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:06 AM
Jan 2013
You are a glutton for punishment.

Back when I was looking, I wanted something more in the 1911 style. At the time EAA seemed to be the only ones available.
 

OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)
16. 135gr Nosler @ 1600fps & 165gr GDHP @ 1400fps ... it's like a semiauto .357 magnum-magnum!
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:15 AM
Jan 2013

Let's just say that after shooting 100 rounds at a local pistol match, I had a bruise on my palm. LOL.

spin

(17,493 posts)
37. Since I have smaller hands than most men, I prefer a semi-auto pistol with a single stack ...
Mon Jan 14, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jan 2013

magazine.

A full sized 11911 style 45 pistol fits my hand far better than a full sized Glock 9mm.

Unlike any shooters I have never been overly concerned about magazine capacity. I personally feel that a .45 ACP round is an inherently accurate round for target shooting and very effective for self defense.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
18. Data indicates AWB was worthless and did not affect crime as it was promised to do.
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jan 2013
A 2004 University of Pennsylvania study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice explained why. For starters, only 18 firearm models were explicitly banned. But it was easy for gun manufacturers to modify weapons slightly so that they didn’t fall under the ban. One example: the Colt AR-15 that James Holmes used to shoot up a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., last summer would have been outlawed. Yet it would have been perfectly legal for Holmes to have purchased a very similar Colt Match Target rifle, which didn’t fall under the ban.Meanwhile, here were already more than 24 million large-capacity magazines in existence before the federal ban took effect in 1994. Indeed, as soon as Congress began working on the law, manufacturers boosted production of weapons and magazines in anticipation of higher prices. Dangerous weapons were still plentiful.Did the law have an effect on crime or gun violence? While gun violence did fall in the 1990s, this was likely due to other factors. Here’s the UPenn study again: “We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence.”One reason is that assault weapons were never a huge factor in gun violence to begin with. They were used in only 2 percent to 8 percent of gun crimes. Large-capacity magazines were more important -- used in as many as a quarter of gun crimes. But, again, the 1994 law left more than 24 million magazines untouched, so the impact was blunted.


AWB was a piece of garbage.

Yup.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
35. On that pennsy AWB study.... you left things out
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:17 PM
Jan 2013

clames wrote: Data indicates AWB was worthless and did not affect crime as it was promised to do .... A 2004 University of Pennsylvania study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice explained why.
"We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence.”

Oh my, you left out some very important 'other things' the pennsy study noted, which are not very helpful to what you are saying, clames.

That study by {Koper, Woods, Roth} of the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania found no statistically significant evidence that either the assault weapons ban or the ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds had reduced gun murders. However, they concluded that it was "premature to make definitive assessments of the ban's impact on gun crime," and argue that if the ban had been in effect for more than nine years, benefits might have begun to appear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Because after more than 10 years a growing absence of assault rifles because of becoming old, attritioning, would have occurred. By lifting the AWB ban in 2004, assault rifle makers got to replenish what attritioned out.

they also noted the small sample they had to compare with previously, since assault rifles were just coming into vogue:
"due to the fact that the relative rarity with which the banned guns were used in crime before the ban ... the maximum potential effect of the ban on gun violence outcomes would be very small

clames: Data indicates AWB was worthless and did not affect crime as it was promised to do .... A 2004 University of Pennsylvania study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice explained why.

I need some help readers, was clames cherry picking? data mining? out of contexting? I get confused sometimes on these things.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
36. Talk about technical ignorance and lots of it.
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:51 PM
Jan 2013

Let's examine the first.

Because after more than 10 years a growing absence of assault rifles because of becoming old, attritioning, would have occurred. By lifting the AWB ban in 2004, assault rifle makers got to replenish what attritioned out. 


These are durable goods. They don't wear out due to age. They last decades with minimal maintenance and people are shooting firearms that were built more than a century ago. The AWB made no impact because makers could drop a few cosmetic features and pump out virtually the same weapons. Hilarious argument you have made....

I need some help readers, was clames cherry picking? data mining? out of contexting? I get confused sometimes on these things.


I'm sure you are easily confused by such a simple study. I suggest you look up the DoJ's study to help you along. Considering you believe firearms have an expiration date you should get all the help Google offers
 

jody

(26,624 posts)
28. OK, so what? Has any research suggested the number of high-capacity magazines affects crime rates?
Fri Jan 11, 2013, 05:06 PM
Jan 2013

We have enough red-herrings already when Biden's Gun Violence Commission needs to select 3-5 significant factors that are causal factors to violence and recommend changes to federal laws that might make a difference.

Why can't people become part of the solution?

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
34. Since AWB, it's Fewer Gun Owners which resulted in less murders
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:01 PM
Jan 2013

skyline wrote: 1968 .............13,000 murders
.....1994(AWB date) .............23,000 murders
.....2004(AWB ends) .............16,000 murders
2011(more guns in USA than ever) 14,600 murders.

It's amazing that when the AWB expired and more and more guns flooded the USA murder has continued to drop
.

Your argument leaks like a sieve. The percentage rate of GUN OWNERS has slightly declined over past decade since AWB expired. The increase in firearms to 300 millions has largely been to the same old gun owners who owned guns previously.`
-- To put it bluntly COMPARATIVELY FEWER GUN OWNERS HAVE RESULTED IN LESS MURDERS & LESS VIOLENT CRIME RATES, over the past 8 years since AWB expired. More guns had nothing to do with it.

.. actually more guns 'flooded' america from mid 60s to mid 70s, when national gunstock increased from about 75 millions to about 150 millions. A flood of 75 million new guns in about a ten year period. Since the AWB expired in 2004, maybe 50 - 60 million new guns.

In 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million firearms, https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt\\

So from mid 1960s thru 1994, about 30 years, national gunstock increased by about 120 million guns, or an increase of ~156%. From 1994 to now, an increase by about the same number of guns, but for an increase of about 55% (194 up to 300 million). Since we are speaking of rates this is a valid comparison.

Restated, national gunstock increased 156% from mid 60s to mid 90s and violent crime rate increased by about 325% and murder increased by about 100%... MORE GUNS MORE CRIME, MORE GUNS MORE MURDER.

From 1994 to now, guns increased by about 55% to 300 million guns while violent crime rates have dropped by about 40% and murder rates by about 50%.
... so, MORE GUNS MORE CRIME from 60s to mid 90's, MORE GUNS MORE CRIME from mid 60s to now 2011, MORE GUNS MORE MURDER from mid 60s to 1994, & MORE GUNS MURDER ABOUT THE SAME after 50 years, from mid 60s to now (ignoring that big big skyrocketing murder rate in between those 50 years). And some of you think guns have done 'good work'?

yr ----- pop ----- totcr-rate --- vcr --- propcr -- murder
1963 188,483,000 ..2,180.3 ..168.2 ...2,012.1 ....4.6
1994 260,341,000 ..5,373.5 ..713.6 ...4,660.0 ....9.0
2011 311,591,917...3,295.0 ..386.3 ...2,908.7 ....4.7


wiki: The 10-year AWB ban was passed by Congress on Sept 13, 1994, and was signed into law by President Clinton the same day. So technically 1994 was largely NOT under the influence of the AWB, & 1995 stats should be used as the first full year of AWB statistics, and 1994 stats would be 'pre AWB'... 2004 stats should be used for AWBs final statistics.

Putting things into perspective I'd just have to say

MORE GUNS MORE LIES

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Data indicate drop in hig...