If the NRA had it's way

[jimmy the one]

If the NRA had it's way.

There'd be cop killer handgun bullets available, can penetrate kevlar police vests.
There'd be plastic handguns available, able to be smuggled undetected onto airplanes.
There'd be no limit on gun purchases, no one gun per month laws - all you can eat.
There'd either be no waiting periods for buying a gun, or a lesser wait of hours, & the brady bill would be gone.

Shall issue concealed carry on demand would be the law of the land, and the 2nd Amendment would extend to concealed carry in all states.
Open carry of firearms would be allowed almost everywhere, protected by the 2nd Amendment.

You could take your guns into work with you.
The 2ndA would be argued to protect the gunshow loophole.
There'd be a firearmed guard in every school.
Armed vigilante citizens would patrol the mexican border.
The assault weapons ban of 1994 would never have been.
Assault rifle bans in several states would be unconstitutional.

There would be no 'gun-free' zones (excepting scalia's supreme court).

There would be no child access prevention laws (CAP), just the weak negligence statutes 'already on the books'.
Bob Dole, John McCain, & Mitt Romney would've been presidents.

Mentally unbalanced would be unable to purchase firearms, but if they committed a non violent felony like burglary the nra would allow them their gun rights back. If they committed a violent felony but were not convicted or plea bargained down, the nra might allow them their gun rights back.

Convicted felons could not buy guns, unless they had their gun rights restored under the nra sanctioned 'FIrearm Owners Protection Act' of 1986 (similar to mentally unbalanced) - face it, convicted felons are a big gun market for gun makers, right nra?

Finally (only possibly tho) the words 'A Well Regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State', would be stricken from the 2nd Amendment. Since there is no well regulated citizen's militia any longer, this clause is defunct & obsolete.

[gejohnston]

1. Righttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

There'd be cop killer handgun bullets available, can penetrate kevlar police vests.

They never were legal. The bill the NRA opposed was so poorly written that it would have banned all rifle ammunition including common deer rifles.

There'd be plastic handguns available, able to be smuggled undetected onto airplanes.

You have been watching too many Mel Gibson movies. They don't exist. No company makes them and you can't buy one in any gun shop in the world because they never existed. The ban B movie hysteria generated theater at its finest.

Shall issue concealed carry on demand would be the law of the land, and the 2nd Amendment would extend to concealed carry in all states.

Would you prefer Texas' shall issue with stringent training requirement or New York's may issue with no standards what so ever?

Open carry of firearms would be allowed almost everywhere, protected by the 2nd Amendment.

Non issue

There'd be a firearmed guard in every school.

Barbara Boxer joined the NRA? She wants National Guard troops

Convicted felons could not buy guns, unless they had their gun rights restored under the nra sanctioned 'FIrearm Owners Protection Act' of 1986 (similar to mentally unbalanced) - face it, convicted felons are a big gun market for gun makers, right nra?

Felons in Canada do. We are always hearing how perfect Canadian gun laws are

[Travis_0004]

5. Actually plastic handguns do exist.

Its called the glock 7.

I saw it Die Hard 2, and it probably cost more than you make in a month.

[gejohnston]

6. oh yeah

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. Isn't that the one that...

...shoots the plastic bullets???

[Puha Ekapi]

7. LMAO

[Ashgrey77]

20. ROFL

[iiibbb]

2. If I had my way people wouldn't make shit up for the sake of ad hominem attacks...

... you'd think the NRA's tin ear would yield sufficient points for criticism... but to make shit up... just goes to show you're the same ilk you claim they are.

[jimmy the one]

3. johnston on deck, batting 0 for 3

Me: There'd be cop killer handgun bullets available, can penetrate kevlar police vests.
.. Johnston: They never were legal. The bill the NRA opposed was so poorly written that it would have banned all rifle ammunition including common deer rifles.

link rebut: Cop-killer bullets were originally designed for the police. But police stopped using the bullets because they ricochet, endangering police and bystanders. By 1982, when legislation was first introduced to ban the bullets, the only people using them were criminals who wanted to kill policemen wearing bullet-proof vests.
... Nevertheless, the NRA opposed the ban on copkiller bullets, charging that the issue was a "media-made hoax." Many police chiefs testified for the bill. In 1984, the Reagan admin proposed a compromise bill that would outlaw the manufacture and importation of cop-killer bullets. Finding themselves backed into a hole, the NRA gave in and said they wouldn't oppose.., but they would continue to oppose any bill that banned the sale of cop-killer bullets. But the bill Congress passed did ban the sale of armor-piercing, or cop-killer, bullets. The NRA now says it supported the bill. The NRA is wrong.

Let me get this straight, johnston. Cop killer bullets which you say were never legal, were allowed to be manufactured to appease the nra? And then THE NRA AGREED TO A COMPROMISE BAN ON THE MANUFACTURE OF RIFLE AMMO FOR COMMON DEER RIFLES???

Me:There'd be plastic handguns available, able to be smuggled undetected onto planes.
.. johnston: You have been watching too many Mel Gibson movies. They don't exist. No company makes them and you can't buy one in any gun shop in the world because they never existed. The ban B movie hysteria generated theater at its finest.

In 1987, the US Senate considered a bill to ban plastic guns. More than half a dozen people testified before the Senate that prototypes of this gun existed and that the technology was available to produce them in vast numbers. Senators also heard from police officers, US secret service, and airline representatives who testified that the proliferation of these guns would create dangerous security problems.
Faced with this expert testimony, the NRA decided that plastic guns did exist, but that they had legitimate hunting purposes and shouldn't be banned.
The NRA now denies, in letters to the editor and to me, that it opposed legislation banning plastic pistols--guns made from polymer or ceramic that have a few small metallic parts. So small, in fact, that they don't set off the metal detectors in airports and govt buildings. They are potentially dangerous weapons in the hands of terrorists.
http://www.txstate.edu/cpm/hobby/Publications/contentParagraph/01/content_files/file76/National_Rifle_Association_Rebuttal.pdf

Me: There'd be a firearmed guard in every school.
.. Johnston: Barbara Boxer joined the NRA? She wants National Guard troops

Wrong again, batman; she said they could be deployed at the governors discretion, & she also included gun control measures at the same time. Think the nra will join barb boxer?

Me: Convicted felons could not buy guns, unless they had their gun rights restored under the nra sanctioned 'FIrearm Owners Protection Act' of 1986..
.. Johnston: Felons in Canada do. We are always hearing how perfect Canadian gun laws are

Thanks for corroborating that what I said is true; I've not heard anyone say canadian gunlaws are perfect, just that they are stricter than america's.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
iiibbb If I had my way people wouldn't make shit up for the sake of ad hominem attacks..

I think it would be 'ad corporatum' attacks, not ad hominem attacks 'on the man' but 'on the corporation'.
But I digress. Could you please point out where I made something up? Johnston tried, but he's 0 for 3.

[gejohnston]

4. sorry, you are wrong

Is Mr. Hobby a respected historian like Mike the disgraced? Certainly you can do better.
so you are zero for zero. "Cop killer" was a propaganda term for armor piercing bullets. They have been around since the 1930s but KTW made some that did not have those flaws. The company had no intention of putting them on the commercial market even so.

Who are those people who testify that the plastic guns exist? Why can't I buy one in Canada or Yeman? Why aren't they being printed out in Cebu or the tribal territories of Pakistan? Even then, the ammo would be detected.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19781_6-stupid-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html

It doesn't change the fact that she supported putting troops in schools. Even so, the will of the People wants armed cops. Since the only arguments come from pundits and ideologues, instead of experts in security, it really doesn't matter.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Factual accuracy is strictly optional for gun control advocates.

[jimmy the one]

9. Revisionist history accd'g to johnston

johnston: Is Mr. Hobby {my previous source} a respected historian like Mike {bellesiles the militia guy} the disgraced? Certainly you can do better. so you are zero for zero.

Uh huh, typical pro gun tactic, attack the valid source because who would know the diff, eh? Yeah I can provide corroboration to what I already sourced, you can't possibly believe your nra revisionist history could stand up to scrutiny, could you?

Meese's Holdup of Bill Banning Plastic Guns Is Laid to NRA Lobby Oct22, 1987 |From the Washington Post WASHINGTON — An intense lobbying effort by the National Rifle Assn. has derailed, at least temporarily, legislation being considered by the Reagan Admin to ban so-called "plastic guns" that can escape detection by security equipment, NRA officers and Administration sources said. The effort to block the legislation was directed at Atty. Gen. Edwin Meese and Vice President {HW} Bush, among others..
A package of gun control legislation that included the plastic guns measure already had been approved by top officials at the Justice Dept and the Treasury Dept, which is responsible for enforcing gun laws..
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-10-22/news/mn-15843_1_plastic-guns

.. after lobbying by the politically potent rifle association, the legislation was withdrawn by Meese last week from final consideration at the Office of Management and Budget.. Justice Dept spokesman said the bill was "pulled back" and "put on hold" pending a meeting with NRA and law enforcement groups to discuss whether a compromise measure can be achieved. Police groups and others backing the legislation are attempting to prevent the spread of weapons that have low metal content and are primarily made of plastic. They argue that terrorists could use the weapons to avoid triggering metal detectors and X-ray security machines used in airports and elsewhere.
Two guns currently being manufactured contain less than 8.5 ounces of steel, which is the minimum metal content required in the proposed legislation. The NRA argues that the weapons can still be detected by existing equipment. NRA had sought {HW}Bush's aid in blocking the legislation.

johnston: Who are those people who testify that the plastic guns exist? Why can't I buy one in Canada or Yeman? Why aren't they being printed out in Cebu or the tribal territories of Pakistan? Even then, the ammo would be detected. http://www.cracked.com/article_19781_6-stupid-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html

Who really gives a sh** johnston? you blow smoke... and you have the audacity to counter cite 'cracked dot com' to validate your nonsense - which is somehow supposed to rebut what actually transpired accd'g to justice dept.

circa 1987: A package of gun control legislation that included the plastic guns measure already had been approved by top officials at Justice Dept and Treasury Dept - responsible for enforcing gun laws.. Bill Withdrawn .. But, after lobbying by the politically potent rifle association, the legislation was withdrawn by Meese last week from final consideration at the Office of Mgmt and Budget.. Justice Dept spokesman said that the bill was "pulled back" and "put on hold" pending a meeting with the NRA and law enforcement groups to discuss whether a compromise measure can be achieved.

Corroborates everything I've previously posted, johnston.

Johnston: "Cop killer" was a propaganda term for armor piercing bullets. They have been around since the 1930s but KTW made some that did not have those flaws. The company had no intention of putting them on the commercial market even so.

Thanks for the updated half truth, according to, um, YOU, & the 2nd Amendment mythology bible.

[gejohnston]

10. tell you what

find one of these plastic guns on the market anywhere in the world. Maybe you can buy a Glock 7 from Canada Ammo.
Ed Meese, really? Plastic guns was for much of the media what aluminum tubes became for NYT going to Iraq. Sloppy hysteria journalism at its best. You refuted nothing.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/05/what-happened-the-the-mythical-undetectable-plastic-gun/

[jimmy the one]

11. pathetic, johnston

johnston: tell you what ... find one of these plastic guns on the market anywhere in the world.
Ed Meese, really?

You do realize how pathetic this reads as a rebuttal to the quotes from justice dept & treasury I just posted, don't you?
Had the plastic guns not been banned, you could find copious amounts of what you desire.

But, you can surely rely on that you can fool some of the people all of the time I suppose, especially gunnuts.

[gejohnston]

13. one dedicated to the technology

Had the plastic guns not been banned, you could find copious amounts of what you desire.

did every outer country ban them too? Since most US cops carry guns made in Austria and Germany, I would think some European gun shop might carry them. That was my point about buying a Glock 7 from Canada Ammo. Glock makes a couple of models that are legal for private ownership in Europe but can't be imported into the US. They sell fairly well in Austria and Czech Republic.
You did not cite the posts to any primary source. Besides, any plastic gun would still be detected by an airport metal detector because the ammo is still made of metal.
Pathetic isn't the word I would use.
I used a blog that focuses on the technology.

[jimmy the one]

14. disassembling a plastic handgun in a plane's bathroom

johnston: .. did every outer country ban them too? .. Glock makes a couple of models that are legal for private ownership in Europe but can't be imported into the US. They sell fairly well in Austria and Czech Republic.

You ask 'did every outer country ban them', and this has what to do with what?
(Then) Am I reading you correctly? you are contending something you said didn't exist (plastic guns/handguns), exist? in austria & czecho?

johnston: Besides, any plastic gun would still be detected by an airport metal detector because the ammo is still made of metal.

Oh come now johnston, play dumb all day long but you won't fool me none. A wooden bullet can kill, as well as a plastic bullet, at short range like in an airplane (see '1,000 ways to die', on cable tv). And metal bullet shapes can go undetected.
One underlying ruse was that the small amount of metal used in the mostly plastic gun or handgun, could be disassembled & put in one's pocket or disguised in luggage, & later removed & reassembled in the airplane's bathroom, if not in a passengers seat itself.
Please dont' tell me this comes as a surprise to you, since I wouldn't believe it for a moment. You only mislead & blow smoke johnston.

[gejohnston]

15. wow

you should write spy thrillers.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. The 'small amount' of metal in the lightest production handgun, regardless of civilian laws

will still trip metal detectors.

It's a lot more metal than you think, unless the user of the firearm doesn't value their hand overmuch.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. Have I got a coffee mug for you!

http://www.zazzle.com/custom_urban_dictionary_two_tone_mug-168408780585474818

I promise it's less than you make in a month.

[Ashgrey77]

22. You are just flat out technically wrong.

There is NO such thing as a "Armor piercing cop killer bullets". Only one company ever even made that type of ammo and it was marketed exclusively to law enforcement, civilians couldn't buy any even if they wanted to. And the all plastic handgun is just plain myth, NO such thing has EVER existed. And just 1, 1 bullet will set off a metal detector, so would the metal spring, lining, or spine in the plastic mag.



P.S. The Glock 7 comes from dialog in Die Hard 2. Bruce Willis aka John McClane, started a myth that has lasted for over 20 years now LMAO.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. People are still trying to produce such a thing.

It doesn't have to be legal for the public to use, for the military to be interested in such a thing. So far, physics hasn't allowed for it.

No one, in any country, produces a completely plastic pistol, for what should be fairly obvious physics reasons.

[jimmy the one]

24. screws & nails

atheistC: The 'small amount' of metal in the lightest production handgun, regardless of civilian laws will still trip metal detectors. It's a lot more metal than you think, unless the user of the firearm doesn't value their hand overmuch.

'Back then', the concern was that the smaller metal components within the firearm could be removed from the gun, disassembling it temporarily, & then reassembled inside the airplane in the bathroom or otherwise clandestinely. A real possibility. The plastic handgun would thus not trigger the metal detector & the metal internal components would be unrecognizable as a threat.
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Ashgrey You are just flat out technically wrong.
There is NO such thing as a "Armor piercing cop killer bullets".
Only one company ever even made that type of ammo and it was marketed exclusively to law enforcement, civilians couldn't buy any even if they wanted to.

You first say there is no such thing as a cop killer bullet, then immediately following you say only one company ever even made that type of ammo. In modern temrinology this is known as 'contradicting yourself'.
.. 'cop killer' bullet is the term which came about, same as 'assault rifle', & 'looney tunes' came about and are recognized as being definitive of certain things or ideas. Cop killer bullets existed, if only as a descriptive term or metaphor, doesn't really matter; the issue existed & reagan compromised on it.

And the all plastic handgun is just plain myth, NO such thing has EVER existed. And just 1, 1 bullet will set off a metal detector, so would the metal spring, lining, or spine in the plastic mag

.. will a metal marble do it too? how about metal nails? metal screws? tire leads? Yep they will, though they won't be recognized as bullets, but could be rigged to act like bullets. And prototypes existed, but plastic handguns were banned before they could be mass produced:

(repost actually, somehow you missed it): in 1987, the US Senate considered a bill to ban plastic guns. More than half a dozen people testified before the Senate that prototypes of this gun existed and that the technology was available to produce them in vast numbers.

bonus! from saf (2ndA foundation): The Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act, banning the importation and sale of armor-piercing ammunition, was signed into law by Reagan in the summer of 1986. Narrowly focused and relatively uncontroversial, the copkiller bullet act enjoyed broad, bipartisan support in the 99th Congress and passed with the tacit approval of the National Rifle Association.

I'm pretty surprised I know so much more about this than you all do. I mean, it was in the papers & on the tvs, what I posted from la times & the guy. And you all never heard about these things? how to circumvent metal in plastic handguns? and you thought cop killer bullets never existed? I'm astounded.

SAF: All bullets are lethal, but some bullets are deadlier than others. ... Like the armor-piercing cop-killer bullet, the Black Talon and the .50 caliber Desert Eagle cartridges are best understood as special cases; their ballistic character poses unique dangers that are effectively addressed by the selective ban contemplated under S. 1616. However, like the cop-killer bullet act,http://saf.org/LawReviews/Dailard1.htm

Somebody should write the 2ndA foundation, & tell them that cop killer bullets don't exist.
Is there one of them thar cups, with a unicorn on it?

[AtheistCrusader]

25. They train to look for the specific components you suggest.

Specifically, the barrel, chamber, and bolt face. Without those components, you're pretty much holding a grenade in your hand.

(Chamber and barrel are normally one forged component, not divisible.)

[DanTex]

26. Talk of plastic guns always gets the NRA crowd all riled up...

So some company (Glock?) announced that they had developed materials technology to build plastic guns, and then congress banned them before any of them were manufactured and sold. I'd say that is a good time to ban them. But the gun nuts complain "why ban something that doesn't exist". Of course if they had waited until after they had been manufactured and sold, the gun nuts would say "there are already X number of them in circulation, a ban is pointless!"

And, either way, without fail the gun nut will point you to some gun blog with NRA talking points in neon orange blinking all-caps and links to cash4gold.com, and say "See! I was Right! Proof! Gunz4Evr.com never lies!"

[gejohnston]

27. why isn't Glock making it?

US congress can't stop Glock from making this plastic gun. They can't stop Walther, FN, Bersa, SIG, Beretta, Rossi, Taurus, Norinco, HK, CZ, Armscorp, IMI, LLama, Mauser, Sako, Styer, Aldo Uberti, or many other makers either.

[rrneck]

12. I don't give a flying fuck what they want.

They're just another lobby. And any group that claims to "take them on" is just trying to shill their share of money in the culture war jackpot, so fuck them too.

[rl6214]

21. So much ignorance in this ENTIRE post

[shadowrider]

23. After reading the OP and thoroughly digesting it, all I can say is