With Weaker Laws, More Guns Are Being Trafficked to Criminals

[SecularMotion]

Several years ago, Congress passed a series of laws called the "Tiahrt amendments" to protect gun retailers from legal reprecussions if the weapons they sold were later used to commit crimes. A new study suggests that the laws have had an unintended consequence: With less government oversight, one major gun dealer has sold three times as many guns that were later used in a crime.

In a case study, researchers at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research tracked the number of guns used in crimes that were purchased from Badger Guns & Ammo, a Milwaukee-area gun shop notorious for its frequent transactions with criminals. They found that the number jumped by 203 percent after Congress adopted the Tiahrt amendments, a set of measures named for their sponsor, former U.S. Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), that reduced the pressure on retailers to keep guns out of criminals' hands.

"Our findings suggest that changes to federal gun policy prompted a dramatic increase in the flow of guns to criminals from a gun dealer whose practices have frequently been of concern to law enforcement and public safety advocates," said lead author Daniel Webster, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

http://www.livescience.com/17855-weaker-laws-guns-sold-criminals.html

[burf]

1. Weaker laws, or

less enforcement? From the article:

According to Webster, there are a variety of ways Badger could have lowered their standards in reaction to the changes. "These include making sales to people who obviously present as if they are buying the gun for someone else (straw purchasers), selling guns 'off the books' (not recording the true identity of gun purchasers), inadequate scrutiny of fake IDs, not exercising adequate security and oversight of employees enabling theft of guns. But we can't say whether Badger engaged in any, some, or all of these practices," he told Life's Little Mysteries, a sister site to LiveScience.

So, we can't say if Badger engaged in these practices, which are already illegal, but a stronger law is obviously what is required. Makes sense to me..........sorta, kinda, maybe.

Perhaps MPD could get some help from ATF who have quite a bit of experience with illegal purchases.

[X_Digger]

2. "There's less tracking of guns! See, here's this case study where we track some guns to prove it!"

That they can say it with a straight face speaks volumes.

Nevermind the post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Another interesting quote..

[div class='excerpt']While the number of guns Badger sold that were later connected to crime tripled after 2003, the same was not true of other retailers investigated by the researchers. Data they obtained from the Milwaukee Police Department showed that there was no Tiahrt amendment-related spike in the number of guns used in crimes that were sold by other Milwaukee gun shops.

They just undercut their own conclusion.

[Atypical Liberal]

4. "there was no Tiahrt amendment-related spike in the number of guns used in crimes that were sold"

Sounds to me like you have one gun store with a problem in selling firearms that end up used in crimes.

Sounds like a perfect place for the BATFE to be focusing some attention. Instead of, say, shipping guns to Mexico.

[X_Digger]

5. Yes, it's another example of arguing by anecdote.

Nothing new for that crowd, mind you.

[spin]

3. I find it strange that the Fraternal Order of Police supports the Tiahrt Amendments...

if it is indeed so good for law enforcement.

Tiahrt Amendment

Tiahrt is the author of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) from releasing information from its firearms trace database to anyone other than a law enforcement agency or prosecutor in connection with a criminal investigation. Additionally, any data so released is inadmissible in a civil lawsuit.[2] Some groups, including the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition, believe that having further access to the ATF database would help municipal police departments track down sellers of illegal guns and curb crime. These groups are trying to undo the Tiahrt Amendment.[3] Conversely, the Tiahrt Amendment is supported by the Fraternal Order of Police, as it allows municipal police departments full access to ATF trace data in any criminal investigation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Tiahrt

I found out why when I read this letter:

Letter to Appropriations Subcommittee in support of Tiahrt Amendment 04/19/2007

The Honorable Alan B. Mollohan and Rodney Frelinghuysen
Chairman and Ranking Member
Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science and Related Agencies
Committee on Appropriations
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Mr. Chairman and Representative Frelinghuysen,

I am writing on behalf of the membership of the Fraternal Order of Police to express our strong support for the inclusion of language in the FY 2008 Commerce, Justice, Science and Related Agencies appropriations bill to prohibit disclosure of firearms trace data by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) firearms to non-law enforcement entities.

The FOP has supported this language since the original version was first enacted several years ago because of our concern for the safety of law enforcement officers and the integrity of law enforcement investigations. For example, the disclosure of trace requests can inadvertently reveal the names of undercover officers or informants, endangering their safety. It may also tip off the target of an investigation, as appears to be the case in New York City. According to media reports last year, law enforcement sources cited that as many as "four cases were compromised and an additional 14 were put at risk" by private investigators employed by the city who acted on the basis of trace data. In this case, the investigators conducted "sting" operations for the city's civil suit against several gun stores that had been identified through firearms trace data. As a result, several gun trafficking suspects under investigation by law enforcement changed their behavior to avoid scrutiny. This is exactly the type of interference that caused the FOP to originally support language restricting the use of the data to law enforcement....emphasis added

While we recognize that court decisions have reduced the effectiveness of this provision by allowing disclosure of trace data in civil suits, we continue to believe that its inclusion is extremely important and, on behalf of our more than 325,000 members, we urge that it be included in the bill when it is introduced. Thank you in advance for considering our view on this issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Executive Director Jim Pasco if I can be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Chuck Canterbury
National President
http://www.fop.net/servlet/display/news_article?id=411&XSL=xsl_pages%2Fpublic_news_individual.xsl

[virginia mountainman]

6. Gun Control advocates have yet to figure out..

The harder they push, the more we win!

[Simo 1939_1940]

9. +1 NT

[SteveW]

15. Yeah, you would think that highly-touted "common sense" would work here! nt

[ileus]

7. ambulance chasers are unhappy...this makes me sad.

[DanTex]

10. Nothing pro-gunners dislike more than peer-reviewed research from a major university.

Here comes the denialism!

[TPaine7]

11. LOL! What's to deny?

In a case study, researchers at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research tracked the number of guns used in crimes that were purchased from Badger Guns & Ammo, a Milwaukee-area gun shop notorious for its frequent transactions with criminals. They found that the number jumped by 203 percent after Congress adopted the Tiahrt amendments, a set of measures named for their sponsor, former U.S. Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), that reduced the pressure on retailers to keep guns out of criminals' hands.

According to the researchers, the loosening of standards at Badger Guns & Ammo could signify a national trend — at least, among gun retailers that already have a track record of diverting too many guns to criminals.

I will stipulate for the sake of discussion—and most definitely not because I trust the source, the researchers or the peer reviewers—that the above is as true and as valid as the most solidly established and experimentally validated scientific fact known to humankind.

So what?!!!

Given that the number of guns sold by Badger Guns & Ammo and used in crimes jumped 203% and that "{a}ccording to the researchers, the loosening of standards at Badger Guns & Ammo could signify a national trend", what follows?

[gejohnston]

12. works both ways

at least the peer-reviewed research (assuming this is) that agrees with us is done honestly.
Is this done by the same guy that sent some undergrad to a gun show to count how many straw purchases he thought he saw?

[Straw Man]

13. What do you make of this?

While the number of guns Badger sold that were later connected to crime tripled after 2003, the same was not true of other retailers investigated by the researchers. Data they obtained from the Milwaukee Police Department showed that there was no Tiahrt amendment-related spike in the number of guns used in crimes that were sold by other Milwaukee gun shops.

So their conclusions about the effects of a piece of federal legislation were based on data from one gun shop? This is your vaunted "peer-reviewed research from a major university"?

I guess Tiahrt must have had some pretty good buddies at Badger Guns, huh? He did it all for them ...

denialism /dih-nahy-uhl-iz-uhm/ noun
1. the refusal to say that crap smells like roses.

[SteveW]

16. OH, like Bellisiles' Arming America?...

He was at a major university. Before it kicked him out.

He won history's Bancroft Prize. Before it was revoked (with demands the prize money be returned).

Some universities and institutions are complicit in biased research -- like Columbia University's National Institute for Drug Abuse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_on_Drug_Abuse

In May 2006, the Boston Globe reported that:[32]

Then again, it's not in NIDA's job description-or even, perhaps, in NIDA's interests-to grow a world-class marijuana crop. The institute's director, Nora Volkow, has stressed that it's "not NIDA's mission to study the medicinal use of marijuana or to advocate for the establishment of facilities to support this research." Since NIDA's stated mission "is to lead the Nation in bringing the power of science to bear on drug abuse and addiction," federally supported marijuana research will logically tilt toward the potential harms, not benefits, of cannabis.

[rl6214]

14. You're really gonna call the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research a "source"?

That would be like calling Fox news a "source"

[montanto]

17. lolworthy

You could use this as a case study in logical fallacies.