Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
An ominous sign... (Original Post) virginia mountainman Jan 2013 OP
Dead kids in a school? Unconcerned. Cuomo's popularity still near 60%? Now I'm "concerned!" villager Jan 2013 #1
When in doubt, spew slander. Straw Man Jan 2013 #5
When in doubt, spew fake "concern" to further obvious NRA talking points villager Jan 2013 #6
Have said it before, will say it again. Straw Man Jan 2013 #7
The thing is, with all the childrens' blood on the floor, "progressive politics" includes villager Jan 2013 #10
sensible gun regulation gejohnston Jan 2013 #11
Well, "sensible" as it's commonly understood. Obviously through an NRA lens villager Jan 2013 #12
since they are not military grade gejohnston Jan 2013 #13
" We stop being something to be proud of when we love our guns more than we love our children" villager Jan 2013 #14
nice appeal to emotion gejohnston Jan 2013 #16
Some of us only feel emotions around our guns, I realize villager Jan 2013 #17
If they were sliced with a katana, would the conversation be different? gejohnston Jan 2013 #18
Good lord -- you're getting even *more* predictable with every passing post! villager Jan 2013 #21
naww I'm using gejohnston Jan 2013 #22
The "Brady card!" The NRA-stylings are now so fast and furiously canned it's almost breathtaking! villager Jan 2013 #23
The "NRA card" rl6214 Feb 2013 #42
If he is so gosh darn predictable why don't you counter rather than dance? clffrdjk Jan 2013 #24
...says clffrdjk, entering with a rhetorically hollow dance step.... villager Jan 2013 #25
Actually clffrdjk Jan 2013 #30
Actually, it was in its entirety. Read the rest of thread for some actual discussion.... villager Jan 2013 #36
So it's all down to pistol grips? Straw Man Feb 2013 #43
I must disagree; "NRA talking points" is not a verbal tic; it is a fabulation. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #39
Of course you must! All part of the programming! villager Feb 2013 #45
Why don't you get evidence of this purported 'programming' and get back to us, mmmkay? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #46
Your posts kind of speak for themselves -- rote meme repetition, etc. villager Feb 2013 #47
"rote meme repetition"? Would that be something like "NRA talking point(s)"? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #48
Indeed, I would say you are definitely projecting. villager Feb 2013 #49
"verbal tic." I like that. Poetry in motion. Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #41
1000's of young black men dead? Unconcerned. 20 white kids dead? Now you're "concerned." Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #9
No. People like you were arguing for gun proliferation while the black men were being killed villager Jan 2013 #15
You couldn't be more wrong. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #19
Then again, neither could you, about me villager Jan 2013 #20
I wish you would stop by more often. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #28
And thanks for that! villager Jan 2013 #29
Although I... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #33
And we know how good Machiavelli is for thriving democracies! villager Jan 2013 #35
thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #37
Good to know. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #31
And I was simply taking issue with the OP. The MSM and NRA love the "1994" narrative villager Jan 2013 #34
Yeah...and I don't think 1994 can be directly applied, either. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #38
Unconcerned? Says who? shenmue Jan 2013 #26
Just a reaction to a similarly offensive assertion. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #32
I use to like the guy. Remmah2 Jan 2013 #2
I have a good freind who is a union plumber from Buffalo.. virginia mountainman Jan 2013 #3
In the Buffalo/Erie County area 80% of the Democratic Legislature voted against Cuomo's gun law. nt Remmah2 Jan 2013 #8
A fella I worked for a couple years ago, same thing. beevul Feb 2013 #44
the better they're going to feel iiibbb Jan 2013 #4
Imagine if he got in all the stuff he wanted. Things could have been much 'worse'. nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #40
An even more ominous sign..... 2on2u Jan 2013 #27
 

villager

(26,001 posts)
1. Dead kids in a school? Unconcerned. Cuomo's popularity still near 60%? Now I'm "concerned!"
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:59 PM
Jan 2013

Yeah, we get it.

Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
5. When in doubt, spew slander.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:03 PM
Jan 2013
Dead kids in a school? Unconcerned. Cuomo's popularity still near 60%? Now I'm "concerned!"

Yeah, we get it.

No. You don't get it. Unless you think those kids would be alive today if Lanza's rifle had not had a pistol grip, you really do not get it. Unless you think any spree killer of defenseless children would be deterred in the least by the fact that he had to spend three or four more seconds loading magazines, you really do not get it. Unless you think that ignorant, fruitless, feel-good legislation is more important than the success of progressive politics in America, you really, really do not get it.

Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
7. Have said it before, will say it again.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:29 PM
Jan 2013

"NRA talking points" is not a refutation; it is a verbal tic.

And by the way: Since when is "the success of progressive politics" a goal of the NRA?

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
10. The thing is, with all the childrens' blood on the floor, "progressive politics" includes
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:44 PM
Jan 2013

...sensible gun regulation.

Only rightwingers and terrified Blue Dogs, and their fellow travelers, still sign on to the NRA's ideology viz. guns in our democracy.

And as with other progressive planks -- climate regulation, return of the 4th Amendment, marijuana legalization, and so much more -- the views of the majority are thwarted by a lobbyist-owned minority.

Fake "concern" is just one of the developed talking points designed to derail conversation about the real wishes of the progressive majority.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
12. Well, "sensible" as it's commonly understood. Obviously through an NRA lens
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:02 PM
Jan 2013

...anything that deprives anyone, anywhere, of military grade weaponry is a notion that should be ridiculed.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
13. since they are not military grade
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:20 PM
Jan 2013

because they are only semi auto, what is your point? Has someone introduced a bill repealing NFA?

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
14. " We stop being something to be proud of when we love our guns more than we love our children"
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jan 2013

Your entirely predictable quibble doesn't make this quote from a Newtown mom any less true.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
17. Some of us only feel emotions around our guns, I realize
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:37 PM
Jan 2013

Others, believe it or not, feel it when kids are murdered.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
18. If they were sliced with a katana, would the conversation be different?
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:43 PM
Jan 2013

blaming the device used is not rational way of dealing with the problem.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
21. Good lord -- you're getting even *more* predictable with every passing post!
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:36 PM
Jan 2013

Is it "NRA response-bot" software that's being used, or a handbook of "stock replies," or what?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
22. naww I'm using
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:41 PM
Jan 2013

IFOA random response generator 3.5
So, what will I say next?

You seem to be using an out dated version of Brady response bot, I'm guessing it says has "HCI" on the 5.25 floppy disk.

Edit to add, cool thing about cloud computing, it automatically updates for my Chromebook.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
23. The "Brady card!" The NRA-stylings are now so fast and furiously canned it's almost breathtaking!
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:48 PM
Jan 2013

The claim at "randomness" was appreciated, as a stab - hey, a katana reference! -- at levity, though!

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
36. Actually, it was in its entirety. Read the rest of thread for some actual discussion....
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:53 PM
Jan 2013

...on my part.

And hey, offer some of your own!

And welcome to DU.

Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
43. So it's all down to pistol grips?
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:23 PM
Feb 2013

That's the essence of the proposed "one feature" bans. And meaningless mag-capacity limits, since an unopposed shooter has the leisure to reload as many times as he wants until the police arrive.

No children's lives would be saved by Cuomo's or Feinstein's hardware bans. All your references to "blood on the floor" are meaningless slanders because your proposed solution is worthless. Let's talk about mental health. That could impact the spree killings. Let's talk about universal background checks. That could impact the straw buying that enables street crime and gang violence. But you'd rather foment culture war through your obsession with scary guns. That's faux-concern for you.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
39. I must disagree; "NRA talking points" is not a verbal tic; it is a fabulation.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:57 PM
Jan 2013

Undoubtedly, those that utter that particular spell when they read something disagreeable just know
that somewhere, somehow the NRA published a style book telling the cognoscenti how to deal with pesky
gun Prohibitionists.

The fact that that there aren't actually any "NRA talking points" deters the gun wowsers not a bit...

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
46. Why don't you get evidence of this purported 'programming' and get back to us, mmmkay?
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:05 PM
Feb 2013

In the meantime, there are some darling hats that are simple and easy to make. Maybe you could
make a couple...

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
47. Your posts kind of speak for themselves -- rote meme repetition, etc.
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:10 PM
Feb 2013

Snarky graphics, etc., the whole entirely predictable bit.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
9. 1000's of young black men dead? Unconcerned. 20 white kids dead? Now you're "concerned."
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:44 PM
Jan 2013

Yeah, we get it.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
15. No. People like you were arguing for gun proliferation while the black men were being killed
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:26 PM
Jan 2013

And people like me were arguing against it then, too.

Before it was fashionable, and back when gun apologists were even then their nasty, predictable selves.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
19. You couldn't be more wrong.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:01 PM
Jan 2013

I very seldom suggest a firearm to people looking to bolster their personal security. Most people aren't willing to do what I consider necessary to properly fulfill the responsibilities that gun ownership implies (proper security for the weapon, training, regular practice, etc.). They retain the right to own a firearm, but I don't recommend that they exercise that right unless they're going to do it properly.

I have also been advocating for years to end the idiotic, wasteful War on Drugs, quite possibly the single largest factor in the horrific homicide rate among young males of color (and a good few of their paler compatriots for that matter) and the innocent bystanders caught in the line of fire. Drug prohibition has made gang culture what it is today: a large, pathologically aggressive, and comparatively well-off (financially) subculture that can afford armaments and isn't shy about using them.

Seriously, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
20. Then again, neither could you, about me
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:35 PM
Jan 2013

But I agree with you entirely about the idiocy of the drug war(s) however.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
28. I wish you would stop by more often.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:14 PM
Jan 2013

You've demonstrated an interest in discussion and mentioned some common ground.
Thanks

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
29. And thanks for that!
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:21 PM
Jan 2013

Am always stunned to find anything other that rote talking points here, leavened with lots of snark, but was also glad that to find substantive points... being discussed in what has basically become the usually dreary subthread of proclamations...

Here's a wave back at ya:

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
33. Although I...
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:49 PM
Jan 2013

...don't always care for the source, this quote has lots of merit: "Anyone who thinks they have a monopoly on truth, and that there is only one way to see the world, will always get us into trouble."

Many folks on both sides of this discussion, myself included, will occasionally talk past the other person. This tends to stifle progress and foster hard feelings through both sides feeling that they are not being respected by the other.



Speaking of disrespect I leave you with a and a quote.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
35. And we know how good Machiavelli is for thriving democracies!
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:52 PM
Jan 2013


In any case, have a good evening, and I'm off to enjoy that devil's food donut!
 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
31. Good to know.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:41 PM
Jan 2013

I certainly acknowledge that my initial post was just a bit of "firing back" at what I perceived as an unfair attack. Such is the nature, I fear, of gun control "discussions" on this forum.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
34. And I was simply taking issue with the OP. The MSM and NRA love the "1994" narrative
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:50 PM
Jan 2013

....but even this allegedly "alarming" poll shows Cuomo at 60% approval (59% for the really technical among us).

NYC-area Dems aren't going to be voting against him for this anytime soon....

Meanwhile, glad to find some areas where we can agree and -- heaven forfend! -- discuss!

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
38. Yeah...and I don't think 1994 can be directly applied, either.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:46 PM
Jan 2013

At least not in the instance of Gov. Cuomo (and not, truly, across the board)... For one thing, the 1994 AWB happened just before the election. We've got a lot longer than that, and a good many voters will have very different matters on their "front burner." Not to dismiss gun control as a hot button issue for many - it is - but there won't be the immediacy.

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
2. I use to like the guy.
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:04 PM
Jan 2013

My cousins work for the state and are union. Cuomo really worked w/the unions but also worked extra hard to balance the books. Unions got fair contracts and the taxpayers were happy. He blew it and pissed off every blue collar union member who was a veteran or outdoorsman. IIRC his father Mario also did the same thing years ago. New York is a strange state, there's rural upstate and NYC-Down State, two different worlds.

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
3. I have a good freind who is a union plumber from Buffalo..
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:43 PM
Jan 2013

He owns an AR15, and he is beside himself in anger with Cuomo over this. Cuomo turned my friend into a gun rights activist, he was not very politically active before, he is now....

And yes, he is a Democrat. But he will never vote for Cuomo again or any other "gun control" Democrat. He and his friends view that law as a betrayal. THEY, feel personally targeted.

But hey! More gun rights activists have been created!

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
44. A fella I worked for a couple years ago, same thing.
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:31 PM
Feb 2013

This is a blue collar construction guy, he runs sales, does some of the work, and runs the business as the owner - along with his son. I no longer work with him, but he was like a second father to me, and still is.

This fella is a STAUNCH Democrat. If you even mentioned reagan around him, he'd go on a ten minute rant about how bad reagan was for small business owners like him in the 80s. We used to do it deliberately when our breaks were just about over and we'd get another ten minutes lol...but anyway...He said he thought Obama had done and was doing a good job. Numerous times. This guy is a lifelong Democratic voter.

This fella is an avid outdoorsman, hunter, belongs to ducks unlimited, the nra, and so on. He voted for Obama in both elections. Has outfitter tents with wood stoves and the whole nine yards. I went hunting with him one year, though I did not hunt myself. I did enjoy walking quietly through the woods though, and chilling in camp reading books I had brought with me if/when I felt like relaxing.

I went to see him a few weeks ago, and he had two new gun safes. He spent 7 grand on guns and safes this year. Has alot of limited edition and collectors items. But he also has handguns, and some so called "assault weapons". His new deer gun is an ar-10 with very nice optic options, in fact.

And hes talking about how he'll be voting republican.

"They'll never vote for a Democrat anyway", is just willfull denial.




 

iiibbb

(1,448 posts)
4. the better they're going to feel
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:54 PM
Jan 2013
"That is not the case with the law that we passed," he said. "The more they understand the law, and the more they hear about the law, the better they are going to feel because it has nothing to do with the legitimate ownership of a gun.


Which is why they chose 7 round limits on magazines, which is not in spec with any other state or federal law?
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»An ominous sign...