Background Checks

[SoutherDem]

This may be a dumb question but I keep hearing about Universal Background Checks as the grand solution between those who want stricter gun control and those who don't. I don't have a problem with checking to see if someone has a criminal records before they purchase a weapon. But each time I purchase a gun I have to fill out a form and have the gun store check my record, so other than including private purchases, what is the difference between what we have now and what some are wanting to go to?

[Duckhunter935]

1. I do not think anything

I have had to do background checks on 3 of my 4 weapons. 1 at Walmart and 2 during internet purchases. I know, you would think I did not have to background checks on the internet purchases if you watch the news or some posts here but since it is an interstate sale it has to go to an FFL and background check processed. The fourth one was a purchase from an army buddy that needed cash, never even fired that one. I just find it interesting that as a CCL holder that went through that investigation and background check and 3 other purchases, I still have to go through background checks even though I have multiple weapons in my gun safe.

[rdharma]

3. So, you see how easy it currently is to get a firearm without a background check.........

........ but can't figure out why you should go through a background check when you've already gone through a couple of them before.

Could it be because 'responsible gun owners' sometimes become 'irresponsible gun owners'?

Nah! That never happens!

[premium]

6. Hi rdharma,

you got those links yet? You know my offer still stands, matter of fact, I'll up it to $1000.00.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. Ha.

[geckosfeet]

2. The claim is that the gun show loophole allows many shady deals to be made. Truth is

it depends on the state. Some require NICs with every sale except private.

In MA, you do a private sale but have to record the transfer and file paperwork (or online forms) with the state. No background check as individuals do not have access to the NICs system. In MA, you are limited to four private sales a year.

BTW - the whole infrastructure that would allow checks for all private sales would need to be developed, manned and supported in order to make it possible to do a NICs check with every gun sale. It's not as simple as "passing a law", and I really think that has a lot to do with the fact that it has not been implemented.

[rdharma]

4. ALL other states should do away with the gun show loophole like MA!

You see..... 'universal background checks' means it's done for ALL firearms transfers in the country.

[geckosfeet]

5. Fine. But there is still the very real issue of infrastructure to consider.

[rdharma]

7. Oh puhlease! Tell us about the 'insurmountable' problems of establishing a system of UBCs.

I'm not buying it!

[geckosfeet]

8. You're not buying what? If you pass a law you need to provide

for it. Just waving your hands and saying woo woo this is the law don't do squat. There has to be some real world means of making it successful.

I really don't understand your hostility either. It's a plain simple reality.

[premium]

9. It's pretty obvious by now

that his sole purpose her is to try to get us to say something that he can alert on and get a post hidden or, ideally, get one or more of us PPR'd.
We've got his number and he seems to be getting more desperate day by day.
You have a great day.

[geckosfeet]

13. I don't know what his deal is. But he isn't helping anyone out.

[rdharma]

10. "Means to make it successful"

Not being hostile. I'm just trying to determine what you think is so incredibly unattainable in initiating such a UBC system.

Cost? Simple solution. Buyer or seller pays a modest fee for conducting the check.

[premium]

11. Hey man, I've asked you several times in the last couple days

to provide links to what you accused me of, I've even offered a generous proposal if you could provide those links, why won't you respond? Are we to assume that you were less than honest?
Ok, one final offer, I will donate, and I can afford this, a $5000.00 donation to any charity, with proof of said donation, of your choice if you can post just one (1) link to what you accused me of 2 days ago.
Either man up and admit you were wrong or provide the link, it isn't rocket science.

[rdharma]

16. Your last post disappeared before I could read it.

I has a sad!

[premium]

18. And you've yet to produce a link to what you claim.

but my offer is still there awaiting for you to deliver.

[premium]

20. I'm going to keep my offer to you until

Monday morning, if by that time you've not produced the link(s), my offer will be rescinded and everyone can judge for their selves just what kind of person you really are.

Have a great day and I hope you get over your sad.

[geckosfeet]

12. Ahhhh. Offload the costs onto gun buyers and sellers.

So laws designed to benefit the country as a whole, and appease a certain segment of the society, are to be paid for by a small group. Sounds,,,,, inequitable to me.

I don't think it's "incredibly unattainable". Those are not my words. Those are your words. I think there is a workable solution. But having gone through numerous BGC's, I know the logistics. Providing a countrywide solution is not an exercise in hand waving. And I just don't agree with the solution you have proposed.

Your tone (in a previous post) was hostile - imo.

[rdharma]

19. Laws to benefit the country?

No! You feel the paranoid need to have a gatt........ YOU pay for it.

There's 'no benefit to the country' for you to have a gatt!

[geckosfeet]

24. My inalienable right to self defense. I did pay for it.

You want people to have background checks every time they buy a gun, you pay for it.

I'll go as far as agreeing to have my taxes used for the infrastructure build out, since I really do think BGC's are reasonable if implemented fairly.

You pay taxes, right?

[Jenoch]

29. Do you own any 'gatts'?

[rdharma]

31. Lots of them.

Including NFA.

And I'm more than willing to go through the hoops to legally own them.

Yes, I'm an avid competitive shooter....... not a paranoid nut job!

And that's probably what makes me the worst nightmare for the crazy/irresponsible gun nuts out there.

[CokeMachine]

33. Yep -- I'm sure you do!!

Now I understand where you're coming from. Make it harder/impossible for anyone else to own what you own thus increasing the value of your collection? I fianlly understand your intentions. Do you have that link for Premium yet?

[Jenoch]

34. Then by definition that many seem to have,you are a gun

nut. So then what's your problem? I assume you follow the gun laws. I followxall gun laws, and it appears most everyone posting here follows the gun laws. So, what's the deal?

[rdharma]

36. Yes. Fair enough.......I could probably be classified as that.

"What's the deal?"

I would like some respectability brought back into the sport.

The NRA used to be a firearms training and safety education organization....... they have turned into a PAC for the Republican party and the gun manufacturers.

I also noted that the shooting events I attended seemed to be more frequented by folks who are ...... bug fug racist and paranoid!

Not folks I want to continue to be associated with.

Any more questions? Please keep them coming and I'll be completely honest with you.

[CokeMachine]

38. Ok -- if you say so!!

Here's a question: When will you back up your claim about Premium? Be honest and admit you were wrong or provide links for Premium -- I've noticed that you are avoiding responding to him. Premium is probably eagerly waiting to write that check for $5,000 to you favorite charity.

[Jenoch]

39. What I get from many of your posts

is that you seem to think like Hoyt and believe most gun owners in the U.S. are like some of the bubbas in the south who are in militias. I know many gun owners and none of them are militia bubbas. My family includes several active and retired LEOs. One of my brothers has been a MNDNR Firearms Safety Instructor for over 25 years. I think my family is closer to 'typical' gun owners than what you think. The gun crime in this country is being done by a distinct minority.

[rdharma]

41. Oh, don't mistake me........ I do agree with Hoyt!

I've met too many "bubba" militia type gun enthusiasts in my time.

Hoyt is exactly right. These SOBs are out there. I've met them! And they are bug fug crazy and dangerous!

[Jenoch]

42. I don't deny these 'bubbas'

are out there. Hoyt seems to believe they represent most of the gun owners in the U.S. Is that your belief as well?

[rdharma]

43. If most gun owners embrace this "bubba militia", then there is a SERIOUS PROBLEM!

And I believe there is a serious problem.

If you encounter them,.... get as far away from these fuckers as possible!

[Jenoch]

46. You did not answer my question.

Do you believe most gun owners in the U.S. are represented by the 'bubba militia' type?

[SoutherDem]

21. A fee for a Constitutional right?

Should we have a fee to vote? There are a lot of cost to provide an election, so we should bring back a poll tax?

[rdharma]

22. Paranoia a 'constitutional right' that should be funded by the government?

Really? I don't think so!

[CokeMachine]

25. That $5,000 that premium offerd could go a long way to your -- Something.

Man up -- admit you were wrong and put it to rest, or come up with posts that you courageously say exist.

Note to jurors: he basically told falsehoods about another poster but just can't find it within himself to do the correct thing and admit he was wrong.

[rdharma]

26. I love that transparency feature they have here on DU!

Don't you?

[CokeMachine]

28. I do love it!!

When will you admit you told an untruth about premium??

You had a good time alerting on a bunch of my posts -- hope it was good for you??

Outside of that comment, I'm not going for your flame bait.

[rdharma]

32. Actually, I didn't alert on ANY of your posts.

Just because you got a post hidden for a crazy reply to me..... doesn't mean I was the one who alerted.

[CokeMachine]

35. Sure!!

Got that link for Premium yet??? It's worth $5000 to your favorite charity. C'mon you can do it!!

[gejohnston]

30. I do too. I especially like the link that takes

you to the hidden post, allowing you read it.

[rdharma]

37. You mean reading it in real time?

Before the alert comes?

Yep!

[oneshooter]

23. With my Texas CHL there is no phone call.

[rdharma]

27. I'm OK with that..... if Texas pulls CHL for any violations immediately......

.... and records are immediately available to LE.

[rdharma]

44. You know what? This would be a perfect job for the local PD or Sheriff

Collect modest fees for personal firearms transfers.

[rdharma]

45. Give it up!

You've been outed!

[premium]

48. And you've been outed as dishonest member.

Got those link(s) yet? $5000.00 still awaits you until Monday.

[jmg257]

50. "...other than including private purchases,..."

There is your answer.

Many guns used illegally are reportedly obtained from "illegal dealers", people who buy guns then sell them to those who may not pass a BC, off the books, etc. Similiar to straw purchases on much larger scale. Typically for most private sales, all that is/was required lawfully is the seller "knows of no reason the buyer can't buy the gun". Not very safety-oriented, but oh so convenient when looking to sell gear.

UBC especially if combined with registration, would help reduce this flow of illegal weapons.

[Jenoch]

51. How would a UBC law

prevent the kind of illegal guns sales you describe?

[jmg257]

52. Because every sale "must" include a UBC. When combined

with registration, any gun found on the street or otherwise being researched may be checked to see it is properly registered and to whom. The last lawful possessor would easily be found, and investigated if applicable. Private sellers would think extra hard about unlawful or shady dealing, cause the gun/s could be traced back to them. This would likely also have the affect of cuttting down on numerous private transfers otherwise, as now it is no longer so convenient to buy and sell at will.

Also, a great bonus is the current possessor of any arm could easily be charged AND the illegal gun removed, if s/he is not the lawful registered owner.

[Jenoch]

53. You wrote 'especially when combined

wuth registration". Now you are describing a situation that IS combined with registration.

The illegal sellers you first described were breaking several laws. There is little reason to believe they would follow additional laws.

[jmg257]

54. Exactly why I placed emphasis is on "combined with..."

While mandatory UBC is still a deterent to an extent, there is much greater risk if registration is included.

[Jenoch]

55. A federal UBC law

combined with a federal gun registry law would be illegal. A push for state by state gun registry laws would create such a shitstorm that the politicians pushing it would soon be out of office, depending on where they hold office of course.