Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumVPC Research Shows Dangers of Recent Court Decision Weakening California Concealed Carry Handgun Law
The VPC’s online database, Concealed Carry Killers, shows that private individuals with concealed carry permits are frequently responsible for fatal shooting incidents that have nothing to do with self-defense. Nationwide, private individuals legally allowed to carry concealed handguns are responsible for at least 636 deaths since May 2007 — including 27 mass shootings that resulted in the deaths of 128 victims.
A February ruling by a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit removed the ability of California county sheriffs to restrict concealed carry to those individuals who could demonstrate a “good cause” for carrying loaded weapons in public. The California Attorney General is asking the full court to review and reverse the panel’s decision in Peruta v. County of San Diego.
“Our research shows that putting more guns on the streets inevitably leads to more tragedies,” states VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand. “Local law enforcement must have the ability to protect public safety by restricting who can carry loaded handguns in public. The evidence is overwhelming from states that compel the issuance of concealed carry permits that such policies cost innocent lives.”
http://www.vpc.org/press/1403ccw.html
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ileus
(15,396 posts)Thanks but I'll fight to keep my right to protect my family and I.
Keep safe and carry on.
I meet a guy in less than two hours to complete a FTF trade p229 for p220.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)
If you like the single stacks, try to track down a P225. It's supposed to be a compact sized version of the P220, chambered in 9mm. Mine was the first gun I ever owned. Some nice policeman in Germany took pretty good care of it for about 30 years before I got it.
Bazinga
(331 posts)Token Republican
(242 posts)But what do the actual court papers say?
The State of New Jersey filed papers with the Supreme Court that said:
Amendment requires “that the states permit some
form of carry for self-defense outside the home.”
Peruta, ___ F.3d ___, 2014 U.S. App. LEXIS 2786, at
*78. New Jersey’s Handgun Permit Law does precisely
this. In New Jersey, on the other
hand, the Superior Court “shall issue” a permit to
carry if it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of
good moral character, is not subject to any enumerated
disability, is thoroughly familiar with the safe
handling and use of handguns, and has a justifiable
need to carry a handgun. N.J. Stat. Ann. § 2C:58-4(d).
Thus, California’s law gives the sheriff more discretion
to refuse to issue a permit than the New Jersey law.
So which one is lying? The VPC or New Jersey, because both can't be true.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If a sheriff is allowed to pick and choose then it can create a two class system. I bet you a Hollywood movie star would have no issue getting a permit under the old system, and an average joe might have trouble. A sheriff with racial bias could possibly deny permits to more African Americans, or people in lower class neighborhoods. I think the best way is to lay out the guidelines, and let the background check determine who is eligible.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)He is permitted for 3 pistols, IIRC.
HALO141
(911 posts)because law enforcement sumarily refuses to issue 99.99% of the permits applied for. The only exceptions are politically connected individuals who circumvent the system in the first place.
May issue = No issue and they're perfectly fine with a multi-tiered social oedre so long as the "right people" are at the top. Ideology will always lose to personal bias in weak minded people and personal bias IS the ideology of the corrupt.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)over 110,000 murders in the time frame referenced, but the problem is the 622 killed by CCW permitees?
That's focusing on, literally, about ½ of 1% of murders.
Let me ask you this... when the culture-war laws that you want passed (assault-weapon bans, for example) result in the loss of Democratic control of a state or the federal government, how many people die as a result?
I'll give you a hint... it's a lot more than 89 per year.
And of course, for a CCW permit to be an accessory to a murder, it has to be a non-premeditated murder. Funny how the VPC, once again, doesn't take that into account.
From the VPC:
[div class=excerpt style=background:#AFEEEE]Concealed Handgun Permit Holder: Michael McLendon
SUICIDE
Date: March 10, 2009
People Killed: 11 (including shooter)
Circumstances: On March 10, 2009, Michael McLendon, a self-proclaimed survivalist,
killed his mother at their family home, beginning a shooting rampage that stretched
across 24 miles. By the time McLendon took his own life in the midst of a police
shootout at a factory where he had previously worked, he had shot four more relatives,
including his 74-year-old grandmother, and five strangers, including the wife and 18-
month-old daughter of a local sheriff’s deputy. McLendon had a concealed handgun
permit for two handguns. Police later found at the home he shared with his mother
numerous how-to DVDs on committing acts of violence.
Source: “Officials: Alabama shooter depressed over failures,” Associated Press at philstar.com, March 13,
2009.
So... of the 622 that the VPC is claiming, 10 of them have have, by the 3rd story in, have been deemed irrelevant.
Let's scroll down some more... to the fourth story.
[div class=excerpt style=background:#AFEEEE]Concealed Handgun Permit Holder: Kathy Lowe
CONVICTED
Date: November 11, 2008
People Killed: 1
Circumstances: On November 11, 2008, concealed handgun permit holder Kathy Lowe
shot and killed her husband, David Lowe, in the backyard of the couple’s home. Lowe
claimed the shooting was in self-defense. L owe told investigators that her husband, a
retired District Attorney Sheriff’s investigator, was ill and not expected to live beyond a
year and that his temper had worsened as his health deteriorated. During an interrogation
the night of the shooting, Lowe told investigators that when her husband had complained
of feeling ill that night she had joked, “Are you wanting me to shoot you, David?” Her
husband then picked up one of the 20 guns the couple kept in their home and followed
her around the house, threatening to kill her, and not allowing her to leave. According to
Lowe, her husband was a “hunter and collector” who “always made sure a gun was in
reach in every room of the house.” Kathy Lowe then got a gun of her own and eventually
went out to the couple’s backyard. David Lowe followed her outside and according to
Kathy Lowe started yelling and prepared to shoot her. She shot him once in the arm and
then “blindly” shot him twice more, killing him. During the trial, prosecutors argued that
Lowe had planned to kill her husband. In support, they cited: discrepancies in her version
of events as told to law enforcement; evidence of a boyfriend; three life insurance polices
on David Lowe, one taken out a month before his death; her recent procurement of the
concealed handgun permit; the recent signing by David Lowe of a long-drafted do-not
resuscitate order; and, the fact that she had made phone calls the night of the killing, but
never called 911. In August 2010, a mistrial was declared in Lowe’s trial. A new date is
being set for her retrial.
UPDATE: In March 2012, Kathy Lowe pled guilty to manslaughter and was sentenced
to three years of probation in the shooting of her husband David Lowe.
Source: “Kathy Lowe pleads guilty to manslaughter, receives probation in shooting death of husband,”
al.com, March 19, 2012; “Mistrial declared in Kathy Lowe trial,” The Sand Mountain Reporter, August 3,
2010; “Lowe relives moment the gun went off,” The Sand Mountain Reporter, August 3, 2010; “Marshall
County Jury Deliberates Murder Case,” whnt.com, August 2, 2010; “Prosecutor: Insurance, lover led to
death,” The Sand Mountain Reporter, July 29, 2010; “Marshall County Woman Faces Jury for Killing
Husband,” whnt.com, July 28, 2010.
So here have a couple with issues, carrying guns ON THEIR PROPERTY, where they can legally do so without a permit. CCW permit status: irrelevant.
Knock another off the list.
But I'm sure the 45,000 who die every year from lack of health insurance support your crusade to remove protruding pistol grips from rifles.
Straw Man
(6,622 posts)They say that as if it's a bad thing. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer that law enforcement agencies be limited to enforcing law rather than making it.
Minus points for making it sound as though there are no guidelines and literally everyone must be issued a permit. Very clumsy propaganda indeed.
Interesting use of language. So requiring agencies to abide by statutory guidelines is "compelling" them? So the DMV is "compelled" to issue me a driver's license if I pass my written and road tests? Poor babies.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)
The VPC makes the NRA look like a good data source!
