Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumCongressman makes official inquiry into ATF ban on "7N6" ammo
http://www.guns.com/2014/04/05/congressman-makes-official-inquiry-atf-ban-7n6-ammo/A U.S. congressman made an official inquiry into whether or not the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has plans to ban the importation of Russian military surplus 7N6? type ammo, while gun groups are calling for action. I am troubled that such a reliable, cost-effective and popular choice, such as the 7N6? offering would be banned for import by the BATFE after years of trouble-free import and use, wrote Arizona Rep. Matt Salmon.
According to the letter, some gun and ammo dealers had their paperwork put on hold by the BATFE during routine transactions involving the importation of 7N6 ammo around March 28. Once word got out, speculative details gained momentum via social media. While the BATFE has yet to give an official response, according to the National Rifle Association, the agency is allegedly in the process of determining if 7N6 constitutes as armor piercing ammunition when fired from a handgun.
Federal law defines armor-piercing ammunition as any projectile or projectile core that may be used in a handgun and is constructed entirely from one or a combination of metals or alloys. In addition, the projectile is larger than .22 caliber and has a jacket that makes up more than 25 percent of the total cartridge weight. However, 7N6 bullets are constructed with a soft steel core, making it more ideal for plinking and target shooting than piercing body armor.
Should you confirm that the 7N6? offering of the 5.45×39 cartridge has been or will be banned or otherwise restricted for import into the United States, I ask that you provide my office with a detailed statement as to why the BATFE has elected to do so and under what authority it has elected to take such action, Salmon said.
(excerpt, remainder of article at link)
Let's hope that 5.45x39 importation isn't restricted...it makes a (relatively) inexpensive round for those of us with AK74-style rifles.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)We have sanctions against Russia right now. No surprise here...
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)This is not about Russian sanctions, just a convenient smokes screen.
7.62x39 and 54R, a well as 9mm TOK, are still coming through....
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It said a Russian military surplus, figured it was from Russia. Didn't realize there were other manufacturers.
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)Import export ITAR regs are so convoluted and arbitrary that even people that deal with it regularly have to check, recheck, and then cross your fingers that you are getting it right
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)ATF may not realize that either.
Brown Coat
(40 posts)So the BATFE is incompetent at best.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Brown Coat
(40 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)around for some time, and the Bureau hasn't acted, why now?
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)Is someone submitted an '74 pistol....
There have been a few, but no one has made a go at a true commercial offering. Aaaand due to 7N6 being "steel core", no matter how mild the steel.. it makes it an " armor piercing" by the ATF regs. Now, there was some argument due to it being less than .22 in size it falls outside the statute , only problem is the Russian measurement system is different than US/SAAMI.
5.45mms is indeed less than .22 BUT it is not 5.45mms by our system actually it comes out over...
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...contained a soft steel core but has seen changes since including hardening. While named 5.45 mm, the round actually measures 5.6 mm. This leads in an interesting direction. 5.6 mm is greater than 0.22 inches, less than 5/10,000 of an inch greater but theoretically greater. Inferring manufacturing standards needed to ensure that most of the time the diameter of the bullet produced would be above 0.22 inches implies an accuracy of about 1/1,000 of an inch. Sounds realistic to me. The presence of the harder core along with the theoretical size of the bullet leads me to conclude that the ATF restriction holds some water.
Is new enforcement of this somehow coincident with the sanctions targeting Russia? IMHO, yes. If a means to further such can be found, then the search for potential "targets" can be inferred to be related.
On another front, if one looks at the law and its intent, considering .22 caliber would equate to any diameter theoretically less than 0.2205 inches. I remember proposed laws that name the very common Remington .223 without being specific about that bullet's actual 0.224 inch diameter.
IMHO, the basic intent of the restriction, as written, constrains the import of "armor piercing" ammo larger than what is commonly accepted as .22 cal. In my opinion, the restriction should not ban the import of 7N6.
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)If I recall Combloc ammo is measured inside of the lands, in the barrel for its spec, and SAAPI is of the projectile.. lots of room for both sides to claim violation.
And obviosly BATF believes it gets to make the rules, even if it is on the fly.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)In GD everybody argues over what's in vogue and usually with lots of name calling.
You guys argue facts, technical specifications, statistics and case law. That's the stuff that keeps me reading.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Now let me go update my blog...
...you Jell-O balloon cat.
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)I have always been a "Gun Geek" I approach the hobby from a very technical and applied use point of view, I have a working knowledge of the laws and regulations, but admit to a shortcoming in the history and precedent of the 2A arguments. Both are important to maintainng our rights, while also helping to create a safer society.
I understand peoples knee jerk fear and intimidation of firearms, the industry itself has tried to have it both ways, selling the machismo, and tier one bullshit to couch commandos, while coopting a message of empowerment to women, pushing an agenda of fear, Fear is Big Business as Al Jourgensen so rightly observed. I try to leaven that with accuracy and science, physics and training.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...Smokey Yunick v Bill France days.
(The part of Bill France is now being played by the ATF)
beevul
(12,194 posts)Brings back memories. Made me think of old Grumpy Jenkins.
Grumpy's toy:
Sure was fun watching that little smallblock vega beat up on Sox and Martins noisy big block mopiles.
Smoky was a character. Both of them were.
derby378
(30,252 posts)I ask because I think I have a few WASP rounds in storage.
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)It is just a basic JHP, with someone deciding to market it as able to be used as poison delivery... Total BS, but i remember it being the rage at the time..
Just another Black talon, magical bullet sales hype. It should be good to go being ex Mil stocks of Combloc ammo, so it will be corrosive and good to one minute of barn door.
in the interest of full disclosure... I am not a fan of Mikhail's invention, or its derivatives.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Opinions agree that it fouls the barrel badly. I have no personal experience with this ammo.