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Sat Apr 26, 2014, 04:38 PM

 

Mandatory ‘shall-sign’ legislation for Class III NFA items sweeping the nation

http://www.guns.com/2014/04/26/mandatory-shall-sign-legislation-for-class-iii-nfa-items-sweeping-the-nation/



Over the past few weeks a number of laws have been passed that make it mandatory for local law enforcement to sign off on Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ forms to allow legal gun owners to receive suppressors, short-barreled rifles and other National Firearms Act (NFA)-regulated items.

At stake is the process by which an individual applicant for a regulated item has to obtain the signature of a local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) on their ATF Form 4 before being able to complete a transfer. In some jurisdictions, the CLEO, be it a local sheriff or police chief, often will not approve the application for arbitrary reasons, thus denying the transfer and forcing would-be NFA item owners to set up a Gun Trust as a way around the process.

A number of states are streamlining the CLEO requirement by requiring these law enforcement officers to process these forms through a new breed of ‘shall sign’ or ‘shall certify’ legislation.

This month alone, legislation was signed into law in Utah, Kentucky, Kansas and Arizona, all of which mandate that CLEOs shall sign off on the applicant’s Form 4 within a limited period of time, unless the applicant is found to be a prohibited person, i.e felon, mental defective, minor, domestic abuser, etc. Many of these new laws, such as the Arizona legislation, also require that those refused by a CLEO be advised in writing and mandate an appeals process.

(Excerpt, remainder of article at link)

Who says there's no good news these days? It's time to make suppressors and SBRs more readily available.

35 replies, 10140 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mandatory ‘shall-sign’ legislation for Class III NFA items sweeping the nation (Original post)
Jgarrick Apr 2014 OP
Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #1
Jgarrick Apr 2014 #2
Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #3
Jgarrick Apr 2014 #4
Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #5
Jgarrick Apr 2014 #6
hack89 Apr 2014 #11
angstlessk Apr 2014 #16
blueridge3210 Apr 2014 #20
Duckhunter935 Apr 2014 #23
blueridge3210 Apr 2014 #24
Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #22
hack89 Apr 2014 #28
angstlessk Apr 2014 #7
Jgarrick Apr 2014 #8
angstlessk Apr 2014 #13
friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #17
angstlessk Apr 2014 #18
friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #21
gejohnston Apr 2014 #27
Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #31
hack89 Apr 2014 #9
gejohnston Apr 2014 #10
angstlessk Apr 2014 #12
Jgarrick Apr 2014 #14
angstlessk Apr 2014 #15
friendly_iconoclast Apr 2014 #19
SQUEE Apr 2014 #35
gejohnston Apr 2014 #26
Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #30
krispos42 Apr 2014 #34
Brown Coat Apr 2014 #25
ileus Apr 2014 #29
oldhippie Apr 2014 #33
Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #32

Response to Jgarrick (Original post)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 05:32 PM

1. 'cause nothing says "self defense" like this sort of shit.

 

The divide between the gun-obsessed and the rest of us grows daily.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 05:38 PM

2. What makes supressors and SBRs "shit"?

 

Please elaborate.

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Response to Jgarrick (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 05:42 PM

3. Like I said, the divide between gun-obsessed and the rest of us is insurmountable.

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 05:44 PM

4. So...you've got nothin'? SBRs and suppressors just give you the heebie-jeebies?

 

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Response to Jgarrick (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 05:50 PM

5. No I want every lunatic to have access to a high capacity weapon they can easily conceal

 

and the equipment to make it more difficult to know where they are shooting from. This will make us much safer.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:00 PM

6. Pistols are already legal, and far more concealable than SBRs. As for suppressors, where do you get

 

your information about about how quiet they are...the movies? They don't make the gun emit an almost-silent "phut". They do muffle the noise to the point that hearing protection is not required. In many European countries they're sold with few or no restrictions. They're a safety device.

Tell me, how many of the millions of legally owned suppressors and SBRs owned in the USA have been used in crimes in the last 20 years?

I eagerly await your answer to this question.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:07 PM

11. You do realize a suppressed weapon is still very loud

They are just not loud enough to damage the shooters hearing.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:50 PM

16. You do know these GN's want to wear down even the most moderate change

and promote the most aggressive pro gun laws

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 07:51 PM

20. GN?

 

Care to clarify?

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 10:18 PM

23. I think she means "GUN NUT"

 

anyone who disagrees with her position appears to be one of these.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 10:25 PM

24. Oh.

 

Would that be like "pornography"; can't define it but know it when you see it?

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 08:28 PM

22. Yes, but every now and then it is amusing to seem them do their well rehearsed dance.

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #22)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 08:34 AM

28. As opposed to the well rehearsed chorus of "gun humpers", "fuck guns"

And all the other broad brushed smears trotted out as a substitute for reasoned discussion?

Does the burden of moral superiority weigh heavy on your shoulders?

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Response to Jgarrick (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:01 PM

7. What does a sound supressor on a gun do to make anyone safe?

Or high capacity clips? Those are things thugs love...do you love thugs?

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:06 PM

8. Negate the need for hearing protection, and reduce noise pollution.

 

Which is exactly what I put on my application under "reason for purchase" when I bought my first suppressor.

Those are things thugs love...do you love thugs?

How many gang members do you think fill out the necessary paperwork to acquire a suppressor?

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Response to Jgarrick (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:24 PM

13. Negate the need for hearing protection??? Hell I use earplugs

cause my husband likes to watch TV when I want to sleep...NO BIG DEAL!

IF I plan to shoot a gun, I KNOW I need hearing protection...on the other hand, if I want to murder someone, and not want to draw attention, I prefer a 'sound suppressor' AKA a silencer..

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 07:44 PM

17. Suppresor-aided murders are like chupacabras with you people

 

You can produce no evidence they even exist, yet you stoutly insist
they're out there...somewhere.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 07:48 PM

18. Does the FBI/States use supressor data in their reports?

I do not think they do...therefore..no evidence of use of suppressor use

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 07:56 PM

21. Then you have no empirical evidence that their use is a hazard...

 

...and verifiable evidence that they reduce noise pollution.

So why do you object to wider use of them?

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 12:28 AM

27. Let's see if I get this right

you think that once you get the CLEO sign off, get the finger prints, photo, write a check for $200, and send it off to the ATF for background check and processing, nine months later you get your tax stamp and registration and you get to go to the store and cough up about $1200 for the silencer you are going to use to off your business rival. Yeah right. It would be a lot cheaper just to go to Ace Hardware with 20 bucks and make your own. It would be even cheaper and easier to use a 2 liter soda bottle and duct tape. If you are going to commit murder, what is a federal gun law?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 10:10 AM

31. Yeah, on T.V.! And Guns of Navarone!

 

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:06 PM

9. Thugs like supressors?

Last edited Sun Apr 27, 2014, 08:30 AM - Edit history (2)

How many crimes using supressors can you link to?

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:06 PM

10. to protect hearing and cut down on noise pollution

which is why they are required in many public ranges in France and some hunting areas in France, Norway, and Finland. In those countries plus New Zealand and UK suppressors are unregulated. Besides, all a thug has to do is duct tape a 2 liter soda bottle on the barrel.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:20 PM

12. France, Norway and Finland..I say YAY!!! Let us follow their gun laws...from Wikipedia

France

Main article: Gun politics in France
In France, to buy a weapon, a hunting license or a shooting sport license is necessary. Firearms are divided into eight categories that determine the regulations that apply to their possession and use. France also sets limits on the number of cartridges that can be purchased per year, depending on the purpose of the gun.

The total number of firearms owned by an individual is also subject to limits.[29] France has a limit on magazine capacity (3),and a "assault weapon" ban, other than that one needs a permit for category one semi-automatics.

Finland

Main article: Gun politics in Finland
The ownership and use of firearms in Finland is regulated by the country's Firearms Act of 1998. Weapons are individually licensed by local police forces, there is no limit on the number of licenses an individual may hold. Licenses are granted for recreational uses, exhibition or (under certain circumstances) professional use.

With the exception of law enforcement, only specially trained security guards may carry loaded weapons in public. There is almost no regulation of air rifles or crossbows, except that it is illegal to carry or fire them in public. Guns are divided into 13 firearms categories and four action categories; some of which are limited. Fully automatic weapons, rockets and cannons (so called "destructive" weapons), for example, are generally not permitted.

In November 2007 Finland updated their gun laws, pre-empting a new EU directive prohibiting the carrying of firearms by under-18's by removing the ability of 15- to 18-year-olds to carry hunting rifles under parental guidance. In 2010, after controversial high school shootings in 2008 prompted government review, a constitutional law committee concluded that people over the age of 20 can receive a permit for semiautomatic handguns. Though individuals have to show a continuous activity in a handguns sporting for last two years before they can have a license for their own gun.

Norway
Main article: Gun politics in Norway

Firearms in Norway are regulated by the Firearm Weapons Act,[94] with a new secondary law in effect 1 July 2009 providing more detailed regulation.[95]

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:27 PM

14. The point (rather obviously) being that if countries with such draconian gun laws allow the sale of

 

suppressors with little or no restrictions, how negative could the consequences of allowing a wider use of them here be?

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Response to Jgarrick (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 06:47 PM

15. OMG...BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHO OWNS THE GUNS

and I bet the suppressors...

You do know Clinton wanted to taggant all explosives, which could have included gun powder in bullets...which would lead to where the BULLET was purchased, even before finding the gun????

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 07:49 PM

19. One supposes answering the question you were asked might interrupt...

 

...your somewhat factually challenged screed against the use of suppressors.

However, you might wish to give it a try

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 12:39 PM

35. being very involved in the NFA world...I can address this

You do know I have to register, go through a background check and have stringent storage, and user requirements regarding access to my SBRs and suppressors as well as a LONG wait to process my tax stamp payment... you are very uninformed on this area of ownership. Mt quietest can is running around 110 db, and that's with a subsonic round.. As for knowing when you will need hearing protection, should I need to defend my home, i am not grabbing my ear muffs to check my home...The report from a weapon in an enclosed space like a home is DEAFENING and actually painful...I shouldn't have to destroy my hearing to defend my life or my loved ones

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 11:39 PM

26. so you are OK with 15 and 16 year olds legally buying guns?

BTW, on average, them and Germany know about an average of 30-50 percent of the guns. BTW, how familiar are you with NFA regulations? I'm guessing you are clueless.

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Response to angstlessk (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 10:08 AM

30. Wow! I heard your questions before as a kid in the South.

 

Some of my redneck friends used the same tautology when asking about my views of blacks.

Really, angst, are you that young?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 12:17 PM

34. Guns... the only consumer product Democrats fight tooth-and-nail...

... to keep dangerous.

Heat shield over the barrel to protect against burns? Nope; "assault weapon".

Comfortable, ergonomic pistol grip to let the user control the gun somewhat better? Nope; "assault weapon".

Quick-adjusting stock so the shooter can make the gun fit better, depending on stature and clothing? Nope; "assault weapon".

Light-absorbing, glare-reducing finish so that shooters can see what they are shooting at? Frowned upon... "military style".

Gunshot muffler to protect the hearing of the shooter and those nearby? Illegal in some states, 9-month wait and $200 tax elsewhere.

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Response to Jgarrick (Original post)

Sat Apr 26, 2014, 10:38 PM

25. I for one can wait until I can buy a suppressor with no more hassle than buying a firearm.

Last edited Sun Apr 27, 2014, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

It's only a mater of time for such common sinse legislation to come down the pipe.

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Response to Jgarrick (Original post)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 09:17 AM

29. One can only hope this catches on and wait times are diminished

I'd love a SBR'd AR with a muffler in my collection.

This would open the door to getting a 300 blackout.



I also wouldn't mind a suppressor for my 22's


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Response to ileus (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 11:29 AM

33. Like these? Warning - gun pics!

 

Third and forth from left are 300BLK. Both can use the suppressor.



And you are right, they are a joy on a .22.


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Response to Jgarrick (Original post)

Sun Apr 27, 2014, 10:21 AM

32. Anyone can wear ear protection while deer-hunting, but...

 

you won't hear hoof-on-scree, a snort, or birds & squirrels making a ruckus (as often happens when big game approaches), and you won't hear a call-out warning from others if another person unknowingly sits in your compartment.

But a noise suppressor allows all this, and protects your ears.

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