The pursuit continued as the suspects fired with AK-47 style rifles from the SUV.

[MichaelHarris]

Has to be wrong, you guys have been telling me for years no one uses long rifles to commit crimes.

Witness has to be seeing things, "Jose Maldonado, who said he saw the robbers taking the women out of the bank, said the men had rifles that looked like AK-47s slung over their shoulders and they didn't seem to care that there were police all around."

http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/California-bank-robbery-leads-to-violent-car-chase-5626616.php

On further research every media outlet must be wrong, they all reported the same thing. These precious toys can't possibly be used to cause harm.

"It sounded like five minutes of straight gunfire," Sam York told CNN affiliate KCRA. "It seemed like it wasn't real."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/us/california-bank-robbery/

I wish people would leave these wonderful tools of mankind alone, they do no harm and everyone should have one.

[pablo_marmol]

1. "Has to be wrong, you guys have been telling me for years no one........

.......uses long rifles to commit crimes."

What would the pro-restriction crowd do without strawman arguments? What gun rights advocates regularly say is that FEW gun crimes are committed with rifles -- which is the absolute truth.

"These precious toys can't possibly be used to cause harm."

Keep stuffin' words in our mouths, and we'll keep spittin' 'em out. Have you ever considered the possibility that your brazen dishonesty is a big part of the reason why your "cause" doesn't get any traction?

Re. the "AK-47 STYLE rifles":

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

[Eleanors38]

3. Some prohibitionists don't care about getting "traction:"

The hate fest is far, far more important.

DU is beginning to see it, at last. But the shrinking prohibitionist influence causes them to seek out more groups & fora -- even beyond GD -- to pump life into their outlook. They can stake out new turf, but they'll always find us there. Always.

Have a good evening, pablo.

[Eleanors38]

2. You need corrections:

No one had ever said "no one uses long rifles to commit crimes." You know this. And now DUers know: Gun banners here have a peculiar and unique disdain for the truth.

You have now been firmly corrected.

[Starboard Tack]

4. Of course nobody ever said long guns were never used for crime.

Only used rarely in crimes, I agree. I'm not sure that the type of weapon made that much difference in this case, as these goons don't appear to have been very good shots. The fatalities and injuries were probably caused by LE, which brings into question their tactics when dealing with situations like this. A chase and shootout doesn't seem like a good solution. Far better to follow at a distance, maybe barricade the road at some point, but not start shooting while civilians are in danger.

On another note, how did these guys aquire those long guns, or any guns, for that matter? At some point, those guns must've been legal nd in the hands of "responsible" gun owners. I'd like to see some accountability from them in cases like this, as well as a full investigation of the way LE handled it.

[shedevil69taz]

10. It is possible they were never legal to begin with.

We do have lots of things that come into this country illegally, drugs, people, guns, animals (just a short list)

[Starboard Tack]

12. Anything is possible, but smuggling guns into the US would make little sense

Kinda like taking coals to Newcastle. Where do you think they are being smuggled from? Canada? Mexico? Yeah, those guys who smuggle pot to Mexico and bring guns back.
Joking aside, the US is where guns are usually smuggled from and usually they go south.

[gejohnston]

14. not true

Most of Mexico's crime guns are smuggled through its southern border and off shore. Where from? If the AKs were full auto, could be from anywhere. There is also evidence that they are making their own.
Who would smuggle guns from here?
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-05-23/news/mn-7422_1_assault-weapons
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/us/california-senator-indicted/
Just two easy finds that got caught.

[Eleanors38]

13. Beat me to it. The route for heavy smuggling is

long established. Off-immediate topic, but an NPR report late last yr. contended one of the major Mexican cartels now controls the supply chain for gross sales, but not the territories and price fixing.

In Chicago.

[Starboard Tack]

5. I don't think the type of gun used here is particularly relevant

I have no fondness for such weapons. I think they appeal more to testosterone than common sense, but singling them out as the key element in this fiasco, only serves to inflame and give credence to the claim that those who want reform in the area of firearms have little understanding of guns and gun owners.
Unfortunately, the gun culture is deeply embedded in US society and it will take a lot of education and cultural growth to change that fact.
Law enforcement is a huge part of that culture and as long as that continues there will be no easy solution.

Shootouts happen when two sides come together. The robbers were after money, not bodies. They tied up a bank guard and took hostages. Bad guys, but not killers. Then the cops upped the ante and the chase and shooting began. Really bad police work caused the deaths and injuries and the cops are in denial. They need to rethink their training in situations like this.

[blueridge3210]

6. So much straw, so little time.

As has been noted above, no one on the pro-RKBA side has ever argued that long guns are never used in crime. The argument is that their use is an extremely low percentage of all gun crimes. But you knew that.

People on the pro-RKBA side have never said "everyone should have one". But, you knew that as well. I also know of no one who has ever referred to firearms as "precious toys"; that is a meme dreamed up in the fevered imagination of the pro-control advocates.

If this is the best example of thoughtful, reasoned discourse the pro-control side has to offer it is no wonder that there has been such a lack of meaningful gun control legislation passed over the last 20 years.

[Duckhunter935]

8. another great responce

[Duckhunter935]

7. post just one link to this from one here on DU

"you guys have been telling me for years no one uses long rifles to commit crimes."

you can not as that is not what anyone has said here on DU. All have said "very rarely" used in criminal acts.

Since you are not telling the truth it would be nice of you to apologize to your fellow DU members.

Too bad some of the controllers here have problems telling the truth.

[IronGate]

9. Has to be wrong, you guys have been telling me for years no one uses long rifles to commit crimes.

Can you post 1 link to anyone ever saying that here?
Otherwise, your claim is nonsense.

[derby378]

11. Let's see, first we start the thread by putting words in people's mouths...

...and then resort to the same ol' song and dance.

Notice how this happened in, of all states, California? How's that "assault weapon" ban working for them now?

[Straw Man]

15. Methinks you have an AK fixation ...

... of long standing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x270147

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Don't forget the classic "White Extremist":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=285630

What the "White Extremist" actually looked like:




It's posts like these that have help make gun control what it is today...

[friendly_iconoclast]

16. This isn't your first factually deficient OP about guns, is it?

Let's see, there was the "man with a rifle in Moscow, Idaho" that somehow
managed to not appear in any police records:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x270147

Then there was the "white extremist" who actually looked like this:



Note the title of the OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=285630

[NYC_SKP]

20. It's both an art and a science. One gets better at it over time.

And it's certainly not limited to the topic of guns, but we sure see a lot of it.

Misinformation, logical fallacies, propaganda.

Bloomberg, for example, depends on all of these for his rhetoric.

[beevul]

18. "Has to be wrong, you guys have been telling me for years no one uses long rifles to commit crimes."

"Has to be wrong, you guys have been telling me for years no one uses long rifles to commit crimes."

That is a misrepresentation of fact, as you well know.

[ileus]

19. Criminals abusing guns....

Of course you ignore the bank robbery...


This reminds me I still need to pick up another AR so the whole family can have on of their own. Right now my daughter and son have to share one.

I don't care for the AK types, too hard to put quality optics on.

[ManiacJoe]

21. Quality optics on an AK?

Wouldn't that be a "wrong tool for the job" type of thing?


That is not to say that "quick dot" optics would not be a bad thing....