Cop Loses Robber After Good Guy With Gun Tries To Help, Shoots Wildly Towards Him

[Starboard Tack]

A man with a concealed carry permit thought he could help when he observed a foot chase between a police officer and a suspected armed robber. The man began opening fire at the robber, but bullets flew everywhere, prompting the officer to break off the chase and dive for cover. Thanks, good guy with a gun!

When questioned afterwards, the man said he was about to enter an AT&T store in a suburb of Chicago when he noticed the place was being robbed. He stayed outside and made sure no one else entered (good), observed the suspect as he fled out the back of the store (good), then pulled out his licensed gun and decided to shoot the suspect (no!).

At the same time, other witnesses had already flagged down a Crestwood police officer who quickly spotted the robber – carrying a duffel bag and a gun – running out the back and gave chase. Moments later, gun shots rang out near the officer who (understandably) assumed they were aimed at him and jumped behind cover. The suspect kept running and he was lost into a stretch of woods.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/29/cop-loses-robber-after-good-guy-with-gun-tries-to-help-shoots-wildly-towards-him/

Just what we need out there. Good guys with guns ablaze.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. If only thre had been another good guy with a gun

to shoot the first good guy with a gun…

[roguevalley]

13. amazing. What if the man was just a guy who had a legit reason for

running? Couldn't hear. Was being chased by a cop bully. Killing a man for being chased. what a monkey country we have become.

[cascadiance]

21. If another "good guy with a gun" had used his in Tucson, Loughner might have escaped...

Fortunately that guy was wiser in that situation and kept the gun out of use so that it didn't get in the way of disarming Loughner then...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/14/armed-bystander-shot-hero-disarmed-az-shooter/

[upaloopa]

2. What makes gun nuts think we appreciate them?

Hey gun nuts, keep your tool in your pants nobody wants to see you playing with it!

[Starboard Tack]

3. I think keeping it at home, safely locked up is an even better idea.

[samsingh]

5. society is being corrupted to support the love of guns

[IronGate]

7. Yawn.

[DashOneBravo]

55. Yep

Last edited Thu Jul 31, 2014, 11:15 PM - Edit history (1)

You're certainly the kind of guy I'd like to work with for gun control.

And please spare me from the 0.50 cal Ma Deuce and M14 story.

[upaloopa]

57. Look don't reply to me then I don't want to read your shit either

Welcome to my ignore list

[samsingh]

4. this is the reality of following the nra and gun lover solutions

unfortunately if all of those solutions were implemented fully we'd have devastating caos. then they'd blame something else anyway.

[Eleanors38]

19. #15. The law's take on the "reality" of this incident.

[gejohnston]

6. this guy?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/tyler-kee/irresponsible-gun-owner-day-unnamed-chi-town-permit-holder/

[Matrosov]

8. The problem with "good guys with guns"

This is a great example of how the idea of "good guys with guns" doing their part to stop/prevent crimes is flawed.

Let's take the pro-gun fantasy of "An armed society is a polite society" to its logical conclusion and pretend the majority of citizens are armed and ready to dispose of troublemakers. If you saw someone running through the mall with his weapon drawn, how would you identify him as a good guy or a bad guy? What if the situation turned into an active shooter scenario where bad guys had guns and good guys had guns? How are law enforcement or other good guys with guns expected to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guys?

Not that this pro-gun fantasy will ever turn into reality. There is already very little stopping the average citizen from arming themselves. Yet time and time again, we've seen scenarios where a bad guy with a gun shot and killed innocent people while the mythical good guy with a gun is nowhere to be found.

[clffrdjk]

12. If everyone was armed blood would flow in the streets.

No one would stop to see what was happening they would just shoot to kill until everyone is dead!!!
There are no gun laws so I don't know why it's not happening already but it will just watch!!!

[beevul]

16. "Yet time and time again, we've seen scenarios where a bad guy with a gun..."

"Yet time and time again, we've seen scenarios where a bad guy with a gun shot and killed innocent people while the mythical good guy with a gun is nowhere to be found."

And in so many of those examples, the "mythical" good guy with a gun, has obeyed the law, pushed by people like you, preventing them from having a gun in that particular location.

Had mythical Dr. Lee Silverman obeyed such edicts, that event would have been a perfect example.

[Matrosov]

51. The "sheep dogs"

Shootings aren't exclusive to "gun free zones," and in some states the number of those "gun free zones" is in fact decreasing.

The reality is that not that many people are interested in carrying concealed themselves, and of those that do carry, not many are interested in protecting anyone but themselves. The ones willing to run towards the gun shots, the supposed "sheep dogs"* as some like to call themselves, are extremely rare, and hence the number of shootings stopped by a "good guy with a gun" are rare.

*a derogatory term, if you think about it, at least toward those who aren't armed at all times, for it implies that the rest of society is comprised of dumb and mindless sheep who need to be herded and protected by these "sheep dogs"

[gejohnston]

52. in reality, a sheep dog is

the servant to THE MAN to help herd the sheep.

[tclambert]

17. Was the Wild West all that polite? Or present-day Somalia?

Seems like both lead to mayhem and excess bloodshed compared to say, places with law and order. I seem to recall that the way of bringing law to the lawless Wild West was to make all the cowboys check their guns when they rode into Dodge City.

[gejohnston]

18. actually it was

Somalia has something like 9 guns per 100, about one fourth of Iceland's. Most of them are in the hands of retainers of warlords. With a per capita income of $107 a year, I don't see a thriving civilian market.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. Much of the 'Wild West' was

because they had strict gun control laws in towns.

[gejohnston]

39. actually, no

Tombstone banned open carry of any weapon unless it was in their hand.
Dodge only applied to some parts of town, even then it was "open carry"
Worland, Wyoming, banned open carry in 1906 now repealed.

All of the strict gun control laws were in the South.

[MisterP]

22. that little chestnut is from a Heinlein story where it meant that the slow draws were winnowed

out by sacred Social Darwinism
Heinlein washed out of the Navy without ever having so much as a cap gun fired in combat
he never smelled bile

[Lurks Often]

23. Lie much?

Heinlein was a graduate of the US Naval academy who was medically discharged, at the rank of lieutenant, due to pulmonary tuberculosis.

The book you are referring to is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_This_Horizon and was written in 1948. Despite what you imply, that all men were forced to carry firearms and engage in duels, the book clearly states that men could chose to opt of carrying a firearm or being challenged to a duel.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. Actually, he used or referenced the 'armed society/polite society' concept in several novels.

His Lazarus Long character believed it implicitly, and was happy to deal out 'vigilantee justice'.

In one of the later books, he also had an 'eye for an eye' society where even accidental damage such as traffic accidents dealt out such 'justice', with members of the society holding down a character who ran over a pedestrian so that he could be run over in turn, then waited for the same amount of time that it took for EMT to arrive for the first person before they would collect the second for treatment.

[Lurks Often]

32. That was not what I was referring to

The lie I referred to was Heinlein being "Heinlein washed out of the Navy" when the truth was he medically discharged and there is nothing I have read that suggests that Heinlein's service in the US Navy was anything but honorable and satisfactory.

Regarding Lazarus Long, that referred to situations where there was either no government (in some cases by choice) or a corrupt government when there was no legitimate alternative.

Your second reference is from "Number of the Beast", you left out the part where that only occurred if there was insufficient insurance to cover the pedestrian's injuries.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

33. Ah.

And I left out the part about insurance because I didn't remember it. I thought they always sought to 'balance'. I didn't remember anything to do with insurance, although now that I'm thinking back, didn't they actually go ahead and amputate the leg of the careless driver after the wait, not just send him off to the hospital?

[Lurks Often]

41. I believe so, since he did not have adequate enough

insurance to compensate the pedestrian for the loss of the leg

[4now]

9. The police are the ones who should speak out against gun nuts.

[Eleanors38]

20. Better yet, police should act against criminals.

[cui bono]

10. If the cop felt he had to take cover then no doubt anyone else on the street was in danger as well.

Besides, why is the idiot shooting? This probably someone who would be up in arms (pun intended) if the cop shot someone who was running away. (I don't know if the robber was shooting or not)

You can't just shoot any time you feel like it. What if he had killed the guy? Then what? Does armed robbery now carry the death by good guy with gun without a fair trial sentence?

[gejohnston]

11. probably a retired NYPD

reliving the Giuliani days.

[ileus]

14. More trigger time....practice practice practice.

[Starboard Tack]

28. Right, that's the solution, then he might have killed the kid.

Brilliant! Absolutely fucking brilliant!

"More trigger time"

What planet do you people come from?

[SwankyXomb]

54. They're from the planet Natrifas

and they are here to make the sexy boom-boom with all of our gunz!

[DonP]

15. Caught the robber, No charges, Keeps his permit

86-year-old won't be charged in concealed carry shooting, prosecutors say

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cops-concealed-carry-permit-holder-shoots-at-armed-robbery-suspect-20140728,0,2605611.story

Authorities have decided not to file charges against an 86-year-old Crestwood man who fired his legal weapon at an armed robbery suspect who was fleeing police, the Cook County state’s attorney’s office said today.

The man, whom authorities would not identify, is licensed to carry a concealed gun in public, officials said. Authorities described him as a “model citizen” in Crestwood, a village of 11,000 residents in south suburban Cook County.

The permit holder told police he was about to enter an AT&T store at 4756 W. Cal-Sag Road around noon on Saturday when he noticed the store was being robbed, Crestwood police said in a statement. The man stayed outside to prevent anyone from entering, police said, and after he saw the suspect leaving through a back door, entered the store and chased him into the alley behind the store.

Assistant State’s Attorney Dan Kirk said the Crestwood Police Department declined to file charges and the state’s attorney sees no reason to pursue it further.

“This is an 86-year-old law-abiding individual who comes across a forcible felony in progress … and helped others avoid being victims,” said Kirk.

The suspect, Demetrius Merrill, 17, of Chicago, was caught, charged with armed robbery and held on $1 million bail.

(The "Grab Pack" is so cute when they get all excited.)

[Starboard Tack]

25. "The Grab Pack"? Did I miss something here?

Is there a post advocating grabbing your guns? NO!
Are there posts critical of civilians playing "good guy" vigilante, shooting wildly at people in the street. Yes, virtually all the posts here think this was a nutty guy who got lucky because no one died.

But you stick with your fantasy. It's pretty clear where you're coming from.

[DonP]

31. There are several posts calling for a total ban

Here's just a couple"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=150050

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172149489

You might want to have a talk with them about demanding a ban, so people claiming "No one wants to ban your guns" don't sound nearly as stupid as they usually do.

[Starboard Tack]

44. Not in this thread there aren't.

Nice try though.
We're talking here about looneys that shoot wildly in the street and make cops duck for cover.

[DonP]

46. Yes and none by left handed people from Serbia either, the goalposts went thataway.

Nice try yourself.

Not in the street, in the alley. Cop, singular, not cops.

Still waiting for you to define "Shoot Wildly". Any miss, a miss by more than 12 feet?

Put some detail into your flailing.

[Starboard Tack]

49. 'tis you who flail my friend.

quit while you're behind. It's not often you get outnumbered in the gungeon, but maybe this is a sign.

[gejohnston]

40. look up the word vigilante

aiding or detaining for the police is not vigilantism. In fact, it is perfectly legal. Having a mock trial and summery execution, that is vigilantism. Using your definition the bystanders who grabbed JL when his gun jammed were vigilantes or you are inconsistent with your definitions.

[Starboard Tack]

48. I would call chasing and shooting at someone "vigilantism"

Making a cop duck for cover while shooting wildly in the street does not fall under the description of "aiding or detaining for the police".
I'm sure this guy meant well, but he needs his CCW permit revoked and a stiff reprimand.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. 'Helped others avoid being victims'?

How did he do that? The robber was already fleeing, so how did firing a gun (and missing, thankfully, any other bystanders) help anyone else avoid being a victim?

[DonP]

35. Read the story

He kept several people from entering the store while the armed robbery was in progress.

“This is an 86-year-old law-abiding individual who comes across a forcible felony in progress … and helped others avoid being victims,” said Kirk. (States Attorney Dan Kirk)

BTW, not many "bystanders" in the alley behind that strip mall, where the guy was running and the shots were fired.

In fact, not many bystanders ever shot by concealed carry permit holder it seems.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. Oh, I see. He was able to help others BEFORE he drew his gun. nt

[DonP]

42. Doesn't say when he drew his weapon

Or are you just trying to make some vague point?

Since he saw an armed robbery taking place, he'd have to be pretty dumb to leave his sidearm holstered and covered on the real chance the robber could exit from the front door, gun in hand or start shooting inside.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

43. I'll clarify my vague point.

Any citizen, whether armed or not, could have helped others in the way he did, by preventing them from entering a store in which a robbery was occurring. His having a gun had nothing to do with his ability to help others in this case.

[DonP]

45. Nice hindsight

Can you give us last week's lottery numbers too?

So, your ESP tells you that the armed robber, gun in hand, would not come out the front door, find you standing outside with a group of people and start shooting whether you had a gun in hand or not? Because everybody know that if you don't have a gun they'll probably just leave you alone.

Any other random speculation you want to stake other people's lives on?

Or here's a novel idea, how about we just deal with what really happened and stop trying to twist reality into a pretzel to make the guy or the idea of armed self defense sound like a major threat to civilization.

BTW Still waiting for examples of all the bystanders killed and wounded by people with CCW permits?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

47. Sure mine is hindsight, because I wasn't there at the time, I had to hear about it first.

But you're the one engaging in 'random speculation'. I made a statement of fact that applied to the situation as it actually occurred. And yes, that's hindsight, again, because I wasn't there.

You're the one 'randomly speculating' that he *could* have come to the front door and start shooting. And it's even more pathetic, because you already know that he didn't. So your speculation after the fact is totally pointless. We already know that he didn't.

[DonP]

53. And I'm the one that has actually been to the store and knows Crestwood

You're the one that decided that, after the fact, there was really no reason for him to even have a firearm.

That's why they call it hindsight.

Buh bye

[Jenoch]

37. The story said he prevented others from entering the AT&T Store.

[DonP]

24. A little perspective for July in Chicago: 2 CCW versus 312 non-CCW shootings

That's 2 shootings by Concealed carry permit holders in July with 2 thugs wounded and 3 caught by cops, no one killed. Versus 312 by criminals so far with no permit or FOID card and 41 dead citizens, including a 3 year old girl and a 2 year old boy.

Kind of a big difference there.

But by all means, let's keep focusing on those 2 law abiding guys with permits with nary a post on those gang shootings, including the 13 year old gang banger that shot up a place last week wounding 5 and killing 1.

"Shooting Wildly"? If anyone that misses is "shooting wildly" then the cops with an average hit rate of 40% IIRC, are more than guilty too.

But these permit holders are obviously the problem.

[Starboard Tack]

26. I see. You think this kind of behavior is OK

You have no problem with guys shooting wildly in the street as long as your "stats" look good.
Yeaah, I think we got the message. Thanks!

[DonP]

29. No, but it's laughable how desperately some people grasp at straws to discredit CCW

The guy helped chase an armed robber out of a store and away from potential victims. He shouldn't have shot at him fleeing, but the cops on the scene, including the cop who took cover, didn't have as big an issue with it as some posters here seem to. I trust their judgement more than anyone here.

The numbers were for perspective. Wailing and gnashing of teeth over 1 CCW shooing, crickets over hundreds of gang bangers killing people in the same area. But I expect hypocrisy and situational ethics from some people.

BTW, how do you define "Shooting Wildly"? Because he missed?

[Starboard Tack]

50. Ah, " He shouldn't have shot at him fleeing"

Thank you! You can stop defending him now.

[pablo_marmol]

56. Perfectly stated, all.

Grasping at straws indeed!

It's so amusing how isolated incidents are belched out in such a transparent and pathetic effort to create the false impression that the behavior in question is the norm rather than an exception.

[Historic NY]

38. Jackass should have been arrested....

shooting at the suspect who was not shooting or attempting to do so...he was a danger to all around him