Eating out and open carry.

[IronGate]

Xposted from the GCRA group.

My husband and I were at our favorite steak house the other night for dinner. We went after a movie so it was a late dinner and the steakhouse was not busy. We sat in our favorite section with our favorite waiter. We ordered dinner, got our glasses of wine and then noticed a very intoxicated man at the bar. He had a large gun in a holster at his hip. He kept patting it like a security blanket. The waiter told us it was a Glock (sp).

He got very loud and seemed very agitated. I became more and more uncomfortable. Finally I told my husband I couldn't sit there any longer. We left our waiter 20 dollars, left enough for our meal which had not yet arrived and left. The owner stopped us at the door and asked what was wrong, we told him. He told us there was nothing he could do that would not make the situation worse. He said he if got any louder he would call the police to deal with him. My husband told him we would not be back.

I'm sure our business doesn't mean much, this guy was very well dressed and identified himself as working for a large company that pretty much owns OKC. It does annoy me that at some point we will be staying home, locked inside afraid to go out.

I really don't get it. Was there more we could have done? The law here says they can open carry.

Several things wrong here.

We ordered dinner, got our glasses of wine and then noticed a very intoxicated man at the bar. He had a large gun in a holster at his hip. He kept patting it like a security blanket. The waiter told us it was a Glock

1. No bartender is going to serve an intoxicated patron, especially one with a gun on their side, hell, no bartender is going to serve a customer with a gun on their side period, it's against the law and no owner is going to risk losing their license and possibly being sued.

He got very loud and seemed very agitated.

2. If he allegedly got loud and agitated, any manager would've called the police and had this person arrested.

The owner stopped us at the door and asked what was wrong, we told him. He told us there was nothing he could do that would not make the situation worse

3. That's an out and out lie, any owner of a private business knows damn well that they can ban firearms in their establishment and can have the violator removed.

I really don't get it. Was there more we could have done? The law here says they can open carry.

4. OKC law says that open carry is legal in bars, but drinking while carrying is illegal and any private business can ban the carrying of firearms on their property.


Sorry, but I'm going to have to call this story bullshit, it doesn't pass the smell test.

[shedevil69taz]

1. I would have called this out IN the forum it was posted in

But sadly (or not so sadly depending on your outlook) I have been banned there for some time for not being a parrot in their echo chamber

[IronGate]

2. I would've also,

But SM banned me after just one innocuous post.

[Duckhunter935]

12. I agree when you are blocked from commenting

then the ones in that group make fun of no comments from gun owners. I would like to know exactly what restaurant/bar or as I beleive more probable this is a made up bullshit story.

I was blocked for agreeing with another poster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=1458

[oneshooter]

29. And I was banned for the comment he agreed to, a"broad brush insult"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=1379


"Despite all of this to many here I am a dirty, scum sucking future murderer with dreams of shooting small children and cats."

[Duckhunter935]

30. yep

It was my pleasure to agree with you on that as it is the truth and they seem not to be able to handle the truth.

All you have to do is read some post from the anti RKBA side to see it.

two got so worked up the other day they went on vacation for a time.

[pangaia]

3. Just one cmment..

"4. OKC law says that open carry is legal in bars, but drinking while carrying is illegal .........."

What kind of freakin' joke is that?

Is carrying while drinking also illegal?

[IronGate]

4. Big time illegal. nt.

[pangaia]

5. But, but, but...

If both are illegal and bars are for... DRINKING.. why are people with guns allowed in a bar.

Even Wyatt Earp know that didn't work out so well..

[IronGate]

7. Because most bars serve food also and some people are designated drivers.

Regardless, this story sounds like a made up story and I don't believe it for one second.

[Eleanors38]

22. Really very simple. Many establishments have both

food and alcoholic beverages. In a given week, more days than not I go into such places and DON'T drink. Anyone with a license to carry can't be expected to know if a place serves alcohol most of the time (bar). Most restaurants do, but less than 50% of sales (restaurant); hence, the law against drinking while carrying in ANY estsblishment with alcohol. Further, a gun left in a vehicle, even when the vehicle is locked, is less secure than when the owner is in charge of it.

This story in Bansalot is fishy if for no other reason than the restaurant would be in BIG trouble with OK's liquor control board. But they can bounce it around there al-l-l-l day & not have it challenged. Maybe that is why it us not posted here?

[Duckhunter935]

26. I think you are correct

This story in Bansalot is fishy if for no other reason than the restaurant would be in BIG trouble with OK's liquor control board. But they can bounce it around there al-l-l-l day & not have it challenged. Maybe that is why it us not posted here?

Works well in the echo chamber but not so well when facts are presented.

[IronGate]

27. I'm waiting for one of their regulars to come here and dispute my thread.

But I won't hold my breath waiting.

[Duckhunter935]

28. You might have to hold it for a long time

At least they are allowed to post responses over in this group, we do not require a safe haven that blocks any opposing viewpoints. I am curious on whet they will post when they do respond to your post.

[krispos42]

32. Might as well ask why bars have parking lots...

...because, after all, drinking and driving is also illegal, so why should any bar have parking?

[BigAlanMac]

33. In many states

Ohio being one, an establishment has to be a restaurant before it can get a liquor license to sell by the drink.
All places that are "bars" in Ohio serve food and many, if not most, customers are not there to drink.

On top of that, have you ever heard of the term "designated driver"?

Also, in some states, Pennsylvania being one, it is legal to drink while armed as long as your BAC is below the specified limit.

The guy in the story probably wouldn't have passed a breathalyzer test.

[shedevil69taz]

6. More of a question than a comment really

So to answer it: YES it is illegal

[brewens]

8. As far as the serving part. I've been in many bars where they routinely overserve. Especially

regulars. Your point that no bartender would do that is stretching things a bit. Our local Eagles Lodge thrives on overserving and many times they know the drunks will be driving. It comes up from time to time, the bartenders get a talkin' to, then before you know it go back to what gets them tips.

My buddies and I tend to get louder, the drunker we get. I've never been cut off but a few buddies have. The bar manager sure as shit would never call the cops!

Why would the owner be lying at the door? I take that as his saying he didn't want to get into it with the guy right there and maybe provoke an incident. He may not have been talking about a policy change at all, just what might avoid trouble right then.

[IronGate]

9. Don't give me this crap.

Any patron sitting at a bar with a gun on their side isn't going to get served alcohol when it's against the law, no business wants to lose their license to operate.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

13. Right....

And bars don't serve underage patrons or those who are already intoxicated either......they never ever ever do this, after all it's illegal.


Great logic.

[IronGate]

14. Big difference.

Todays fake ID's look very authentic, while a customer sitting at a bar armed is very noticeable and, once again, no owner is going to risk losing their license and livelihood serving someone open carrying a firearm when it's against the law.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

16. It's not always fake ids.

I have seen plenty of bars get busted for knowingly serving an underage patron, it happens all the time. Often times the person working the bar is friends with the customer.


I have also seen plenty of establishments continue to serve blatantly intoxicated patrons, again it happens all the time.

To just write off someones experience and say that it could never happen because it's "illegal" is nonsense.

[IronGate]

19. So I'm guessing that you believe this story? nt.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

20. I don't know if it's true or not.

But after years of working in bars in the sticks, I don't discount it immediately.

[IronGate]

21. Fair enough. nt

[SheilaT]

10. I would hope this story isn't actually true,

but I wouldn't be that surprised. I keep on getting the impression that the open carry laws must be honored and that businesses, or some of them anyway, can't refuse to allow open carry patrons. I hope I am totally wrong on that, but enough photos have been posted of assholes with guns in restaurants to make it clear a lot of places aren't banning this.

I am so freaking tired of the gun apologists everywhere.

[IronGate]

11. You are totally wrong.

Any private business can forbid the carrying of firearms on their property, or they can allow it, but that doesn't supersede state laws on drinking while carrying.

[SheilaT]

15. I am glad to know I'm wrong.

But what's really wrong is the open carry that is going on. I know I'd leave a place if I saw such a thing, and tell management on the way out why I'm leaving. Maybe if enough patrons immediately get up and leave when some idiot with a gun walks in, the business owners would get a clue. Better yet, if the idiots carrying the guns would get a clue, but I have little hope for that.

[IronGate]

18. I'm opposed to open carry also,

it creates too much angst and controversy, but I do support CCW with the proper training and background checks.

[Duckhunter935]

23. Do not care for open carry either

but it gets much harder to conceal carry when it is over 100 degrees or even when in the 80s or 90 s but with very high humidity.

There is difference with a properly holstered pistol and these knuckleheads with long guns.

[IronGate]

24. Agreed. nt

[Duckhunter935]

17. please post a link where

Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

a business is being forced to have open carry in a private business. You are just plain wrong
That is for Oklahoma City

8. Where are people with a handgun license prohibited from carrying a handgun?

Answer: As a general rule, carrying a weapon is prohibited in the following places:

Any business that displays any type of sign prohibiting firearms (See question #9 below).
All City, State, and Federal buildings.
All elementary and secondary school properties.
On a school bus.
Any establishment where beer and alcohol is consumed if the sale of beer or alcohol constitutes the establishment’s primary source of income.
Any place where pari-mutual wagering is authorized.
A sports arena during any professional sporting event.
A meeting of almost any governmental entity or legislative member.
Any jail, prison, or detention facility.
Any structure, building, or office space owned or leased by a city, state or federal government for the purpose of conducting business with the public.
In a courthouse.
Any other place specifically prohibited by law.

9. Do business owners/operators need to post “No Firearms” signs to prohibit guns inside their business?

Answer: No. Oklahoma law allows private property owners to prohibit a person with a handgun license from carrying a handgun into their business. Posting the business with “NO firearms” signs is a convenient means of telling the public the owner/operator does not want firearms inside his/her business. However, the law does not require the business owner to post signs. The owner may tell people verbally that handguns are prohibited.

http://www.okc.gov/okcpd/about/newsokfirearms.html


You should really read this to get familiar with firearms laws before commenting with little or no knowledge.
See page 19 on business rights
See page 21 for carrying in bars and restaurants where alcohol is sold.
See page 30 CARRYING WEAPONS UNDER INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL
http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2013.pdf

I am so freaking tired of the gun apologists everywhere.

another ad hominem attack on fellow DU members. Whatever floats your boat.

[friendly_iconoclast]

25. That's about par for the course for antigun commentary these days:

Ignorance of fact mixed with undeserved contempt

[krispos42]

31. I see CGRA is working very hard to create its own reality.

Like the holodeck in ST:TNG

Like the "gun show loophole" and "assault weapons", their motivations are fear of fictional creations and situations dreamed up by people trying to change society through cultural war.

Guns are so obviously bad, but nobody sends to realize that! But once some fear is ginned up...

[ileus]

34. Drinking and carrying, illegal in most if not all states.

I'm not buying it either.

[Hangingon]

35. I saw this story over in the protected group.

Would have called bullshit but I too am banned. The thing I wonder about is why didn't the heroine of the tale pick up her cell and call the law? An intoxicated carrier and the negligent barkeep should be held accountable. For the sake of all us with CHLs.

[IronGate]

36. There's no doubt in my mind the story is made up bullshit.

Any reasonable person would've done exactly what you suggested, picked up the phone and dialed 911.

[AlinPA]

37. How do you know that the bartender and owner of the restaurant are not gun enthusiasts and

are flaunting the law? There are a lot of jerks around.

[IronGate]

38. Not buying it.

No owner or manager is going to risk the loss of their livelihood along with a huge lawsuit if a patron is injured or killed.
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this story.

[AlinPA]

39. It's probably not a true story, but some of the bartenders/owners are not all angels who follow

the law. I have been in a lot of bars and seen a lot. There is also a small matter of local police looking the other way.

[IronGate]

40. I can see that maybe happening with serving a slightly inebriated patron,

but serving an inebriated patron with a gun strapped on their side? I just don't buy it.

[DonP]

41. I put "look at what a hero I am" stories like this in the same category ...

... as one of our posters, that's still at DU, and claimed he confronted every concealed carrier he saw and verbally abused them for being cowards.

When asked how he could tell they were carrying, if it's concealed, he said he "I always just know from looking at them".

In other words, he made it all up to make himself sound heroic.

[IronGate]

42. Is this the same one who would use a can of beans or a bike tyre

to defend himself?
Or can field strip an Colt .45 ACP under water and re-assemble it?

[beevul]

43. The very same. N/T

[blueridge3210]

44. Would it count

If one were to suspend a gallon jug of water over one's head and field strip the Colt .45 ACP?