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Thu May 14, 2015, 04:47 PM

U.S. PAYS DEARLY FOR GUN NUTS' RIGHTS TO THEIR TOYS


You, the taxpayers, shell out some $12.8 million per day, "to cover the costs of gun-related deaths and injuries." And that's conservative, according to a recent report by Mother Jones on gun violence in this country. It all stems from the radical National Rifle Assn. gun nuts that insist on more guns on the street with absolutely no restrictions on who they are sold to. Wacky Wayne LaPierre, NRA head, is on an unconscionable drive to sell, sell, sell all the weaponry possible to keep the gun manufacturers happy. To hell with a moderate NRA membership that strongly favors universal background checks and a saner approach to responsible gun laws. The magazine says we'll never know the true cost due to the millions being spent by the NRA and other gun rights groups to keep the true facts from the public. This preventable gun violence increases your taxes for items like medical treatment, legal fees, long-tern prison costs, long-term medical disability, mental health care, emergency services, police investigations and security enhancements.

Wanna stop this crap? Contact Congress and tell your representatives you're not going to stand for this anymore.

House: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
Senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=state
White House: https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

http://nastyjackbuzz.blogspot.com/

64 replies, 6582 views

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply U.S. PAYS DEARLY FOR GUN NUTS' RIGHTS TO THEIR TOYS (Original post)
Nasty Jack May 2015 OP
daleanime May 2015 #1
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #2
clffrdjk May 2015 #3
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #4
clffrdjk May 2015 #5
DonP May 2015 #9
clffrdjk May 2015 #11
ManiacJoe May 2015 #6
Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #7
Shamash May 2015 #8
Nasty Jack May 2015 #40
friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #53
beevul May 2015 #10
Nasty Jack May 2015 #12
DonP May 2015 #16
beevul May 2015 #17
Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #18
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #19
beevul May 2015 #20
clffrdjk May 2015 #21
Nasty Jack May 2015 #24
clffrdjk May 2015 #27
Nasty Jack May 2015 #29
clffrdjk May 2015 #35
Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #33
virginia mountainman May 2015 #25
cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #30
Straw Man May 2015 #31
Nasty Jack May 2015 #41
blueridge3210 May 2015 #42
Straw Man May 2015 #56
Eleanors38 May 2015 #39
Puha Ekapi May 2015 #57
blueridge3210 May 2015 #13
oneshooter May 2015 #14
oneshooter May 2015 #15
sarisataka May 2015 #22
ileus May 2015 #23
blueridge3210 May 2015 #26
MisterP May 2015 #28
hack89 May 2015 #34
Straw Man May 2015 #36
Nasty Jack May 2015 #43
hack89 May 2015 #44
blueridge3210 May 2015 #46
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #47
DonP May 2015 #48
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #49
friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #54
Puha Ekapi May 2015 #58
Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #62
Eleanors38 May 2015 #38
pablo_marmol May 2015 #32
friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #37
Nasty Jack May 2015 #45
oneshooter May 2015 #50
Nasty Jack May 2015 #51
blueridge3210 May 2015 #52
oneshooter May 2015 #55
Puha Ekapi May 2015 #64
Puha Ekapi May 2015 #59
virginia mountainman May 2015 #61
virginia mountainman May 2015 #60
ileus May 2015 #63

Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:08 PM

1. K&R.....

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:14 PM

2. Finding an OP title...

...posted in all caps is so exciting.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:16 PM

3. By what portion would UBC reduce that number?

 

What version of UBC are you proposing? I don't like the idea of taking 4 30 mile trips over six days and spending an additional $60 just to lend my brother a pistol for an afternoon.

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Response to clffrdjk (Reply #3)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:23 PM

4. It's just another on the hit parade list

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=111255

1. Ban all assault or assault-type weapons
2. Ban all high-capacity magazines over 5 rounds
3. Universal background checks for all gun purchases
4. Mandatory training for anyone owning a gun
5. Mandatory state reporting of the mentally ill
6. Federal registry of gun owners

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #4)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:31 PM

5. Oh yea I fully expect the "it's a good first step" reply

 

But it was the only one he mentioned in the post so I want to see just how he thinks it will make a difference.

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Response to clffrdjk (Reply #5)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:12 PM

9. I just wonder who he used to be?

 

The proposals and misrepresentations he makes are common, overused and only supported by "Hemenway quality research", in other words, a sack 'o crap.

But I'm sure this dedicated crusader for gun safety, unlike the hundreds that came before him, will change minds and offset the 90 million plus US gun owners out there, and SCOTUS with his simple logic and passion.

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Response to DonP (Reply #9)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:27 PM

11. Lol he does seem a bit familiar but I haven't been around enough lately to give a good guess.

 

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 05:37 PM

6. I applaud the newbie's enthusiasm, but

a bit more research on his part would be nice.

Hopefully he will not turn out to be another drive-by poster just flogging his blog.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:03 PM

7. Did you know that the magazine Mother Jones takes its name from a women that was the

public face of the early Worker's Rights Movement and that they often had to resort to massed armed resistance against deputized private security firms to secure their rights?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:08 PM

8. Anyone who uses Mother Jones as an objective source on this issue has questionable intelligence

 

It is like reading a report from the Family Research Council on the topic of homosexuality.

But to be fair, the Mother Jones report does mention in small print that the costs the US pays for letting people drive cars are causing a "total value of society harm" of 871 billion, or four times what the article says are the costs of firearm ownership. It conveniently neglects to put this in its big infographic, since it would make their calculated gun costs look small by comparison. The societal cost of alcohol abuse is estimated by the CDC at 224 billion. Does this mean we should take the same legal approach to alcohol availability as some people want for firearm availability? As I recall, we tried that once. Remind me how well it worked out...

Add in some skewed statistics, dodgy assumptions, notable omissions and propaganda techniques and it's all in a day's work for a Mother Jones piece on the subject.

But I guess if we will "never know the true cost", then by definition the costs listed in the story cannot be taken at face value...

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Response to Shamash (Reply #8)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:26 PM

40. NOT TO WORRY


Not to worry, there are more less sophisticated people like yourself that don't understand Mother Jones.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #40)

Fri May 15, 2015, 10:04 PM

53. An argument from authority, by a "legal professional" that gets the law wrong?

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=167005

When a criminal wants a gun he or she doesn't steal it like cops and the National Rifle Assn.tell us. They obtain it through a legal straw purchase



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=167031

No such thing as a "legal straw purchase"

A "straw purchase" is defined as "the illegal purchase of a firearm by one person for another", as you might read on the ATF web site:

https://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-dont-lie-campaign.html

...along with reports of prosecutions for same:

https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/three-dover-men-indicted-conspiracy-involving-straw-purchase-handgun


I predict an entertaining, yet abbreviated career here at DU



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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:15 PM

10. Here, let me fix that for you.

 

U.S. PAYS DEARLY FOR GUN NUTS' RIGHTS TO THEIR TOYS


U.S. Pays dearly for the costs of gun violence. The responsibility of which can be laid at the feet of those perpetrating such acts, and pretty much nowhere else.

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Response to beevul (Reply #10)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:47 PM

12. Here to stay.


Folks, i'm not going away and will be around when all the above gun controls are enacted.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:03 PM

16. Now that there is funny stuff!

 

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:26 PM

17. Fine. Get back to me on the 12th...

 

Folks, i'm not going away and will be around when all the above gun controls are enacted.


Fine. Get back to me on the 12th of never about your little wish list.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:29 PM

18. Golly. We've never encountered and ardent gun control advocate before.

(That was sarcasm, by the way.)

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:36 PM

19. I guess that makes you #3

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #19)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:52 PM

20. ROFL...

 

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:52 PM

21. When will that be exactly?

 

If you are here to stay will you participate or just post op's without comment?

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Response to clffrdjk (Reply #21)

Thu May 14, 2015, 09:56 PM

24. My replies.


I'll reply to any comments that make sense. Most don't.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #24)

Thu May 14, 2015, 10:58 PM

27. If everyone you are talking to doesn't make sense to you maybe you are the problem.

 

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Response to clffrdjk (Reply #27)

Thu May 14, 2015, 11:36 PM

29. The comments


Looking at many of the comments, your statement doesn't make sense.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #29)

Fri May 15, 2015, 09:24 AM

35. My point stands

 

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #24)

Fri May 15, 2015, 06:58 AM

33. Several have shown that your contention about no restrictions is demonstrably false.

Any comment on those counterpoints? Or a revision of the OP?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Thu May 14, 2015, 10:03 PM

25. LOL OK....

Many before you have said that....

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Fri May 15, 2015, 12:10 AM

30. Comedy gold.

 

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Fri May 15, 2015, 02:02 AM

31. ... and stay and stay and stay ...

Folks, i'm not going away and will be around when all the above gun controls are enacted.

Planning to be immortal, are we?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #31)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:29 PM

41. ONLY GUN NUTS THINK THEY ARE IMMORTAL

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #41)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:34 PM

42. "absolutely no restrictions on who they are sold to"

 

Cannot legally purchase a firearm if adjudicated mentally ill.

Still think there are no restrictions on who may purchase firearms?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #41)

Sat May 16, 2015, 12:20 AM

56. WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #12)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:11 PM

39. Funny, controllers said I wouldn't last long on DU. That was 9 years ago.

 

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #39)

Sat May 16, 2015, 10:50 AM

57. Interestingly...

...there are a number of controllers who crashed and burned and were served a pizza in that time frame

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 06:54 PM

13. "absolutely no restrictions on who they are sold to."

 

Must be 18 to buy a long gun; 21 to buy an handgun.

You could at least avoid the obvious dishonesty.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 07:01 PM

14. Origional headline not enough. Had to add an insult to it.

These hoplophobes are all into the insult.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)


Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 08:56 PM

22. Interesting choice of words

since I always teach my students and children that guns are not toys.

Also, since pro-control groups promote draconian penalities and per the article
Keeping individuals charged with a gun-related crime costs the government and taxpayers more than $5.2 billion annually. It is the largest direct expense incurred by gun violence, according to Mother Jones.

is it not therefore a shared cost between "gun nuts" and gun control?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 09:06 PM

23. What other rights cost too much for us to have???

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 10:07 PM

26. "absolutely no restrictions on who they are sold to"

 

Illegal to purchase a firearm with a felony conviction or domestic violence conviction.

Hard to take you seriously when you start your argument with falsehoods.

Try again.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Thu May 14, 2015, 11:11 PM

28. this baffled a lot of Torontonians: they can't GET that reforms that 70% of *NRA* members want

(and 90% of the whole country) can't get passed because one corporate cartel is allowed to cry and cry and cry and cry and never be right once in fact or principle, but because they have the money we have to consider whether our torsos are sturdy enough to protect our loved ones whenever we buy a movie ticket because someone's brain broke and he calls himself the Joker

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Response to MisterP (Reply #28)

Fri May 15, 2015, 08:39 AM

34. The problem is the gun control movement and their "its a good start" attitude

you are correct that there is widespread support for universal background checks. The problem for gun controllers is that they cannot resist taking advantage of every tragedy to push for everything they want - which includes many things that do not have widespread support. Sandy Hook is the perfect example - congressional Democrats dusted off every single pet gun control proposal, most of which had no bearing on preventing another Sandy Hook. That is why UBCs failed - it was bundled together with registration and an AWB.

A prime example of "its a good start" is Washington state, where they passed a universal background check law. The first words from the group that wrote the initiative was "its a good start" and they planned to propose stricter gun control laws.

So if we know that a group's ultimate goal is to severely restrict our civil liberties, why would we be expected to help them pass anything that gets them closer to their ultimate goal? Now if the gun control movement would come to gun owners and say "all we want to do is pass UBCs and we promise we will not propose stricter measures" then UBCs would be the law of the land.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #34)

Fri May 15, 2015, 11:16 AM

36. Exactly.

The problem is the gun control movement and their "its a good start" attitude

After the NY legislature passed the "SAFE" Act -- arguably the most restrictive gun control package in the nation -- one representative said from the floor, in session that "There's more to come." Against such a background, talk of compromise and "reasonable" laws sounds like what it is: just so much hypocritical cant.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #34)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:39 PM

43. DREAMER


You have to be kidding. We need to also close the gun show loophole, put more stringent control on concealed/open carry, require rigorous training to purchase a gun, ban all assault weapons and large clip magazines, mandatory reporting of mentally by each state and start a national gun registry. That will make gun control advocates happy. You people need to learn that changes are coming.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:42 PM

44. "Change is coming" - gun control's motto for 20 years and counting. Nt

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:45 PM

46. No gun show "loophole".

 

Private sellers were specifically exempted in the legislation and cannot access the NICS system.

Concealed/Open carry are not the problem; the people who can qualify for a carry permit are not the ones causing problems regarding criminal misuse of firearms.

"Assault Weapon" is a meaningless phrase to describe a weapon a legislator does not like; it has no bearing on public safety. Magazine capacity has no impact on criminal misuse of firearms; Cho at VA Tech uses standard 10 round magazines that were legal to possess in VA.

The ACLU opposes mandatory reporting of MH records as an invasion of privacy.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:48 PM

47. Dreamer sounds spot on...

...as a characterization of believing all that stuff you wrote, but I recommend the occasional fit of wakefulness. So stop dreaming and begin living.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:58 PM

48. "You people need to learn that changes are coming." ... LOL! What again?

 

Lots of "changes" coming, but none your ilk will like. Since control "fans" started telling us that, we now have CCW in all 50 states, constitutional carry in 3 more this year very likely ... and violent crime continues to drop to 40 year lows after 5 years of record firearm sales, much to the chagrin of the control minded that would rather pretend it's an epidemic. But the CDC and FBI, rank shills of the NRA that they are, keep telling a different story with their reports under those right wingers, Eric Holder and President Obama.

You really need to take your latest persona to Castle Bansalot and join the Greek chorus singing about the "Tide is Turning" .

That "change is coming" - "the tide is turning" song is over 2 decades old now and shows no signs of ever actually happening but you'll find kindred spirits that will tell you how wise, wonderful and brave you are.

The best part is you never have to actually do anything to show your support for gun control. Just keep whining online, as if it matters in the real world. No checks to write, no groups to join, just feel like a hero for a snarky post or two.

BTW, either your caps lock key is jammed or you're 14 years old and desperate to make an impression. Either way, fix it and try to stop being insulting and rude before you get banned again.

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Response to DonP (Reply #48)

Fri May 15, 2015, 04:03 PM

49. Really trying to crimp the mirth aren't you?

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Response to DonP (Reply #48)

Fri May 15, 2015, 10:29 PM

54. His crystal ball needs a *lot* of Windex; this from him, in 2013:

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172110786#post30

Gun control

Good points. But I think you underestimate the power of a progressive movement combined with more awareness by the public that gun ownership is mostly uncontrolled and this needs to be fixed. It all comes down to just how long we can sustain an interest in passing "some" gun control measures, and 2014 might just fall into place.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Sat May 16, 2015, 11:14 AM

58. Channeling your inner...

...Kevin de Leon, I see.

"ban all assault weapons and large clip magazines"




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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #43)

Sun May 17, 2015, 06:11 PM

62. There is no such thing as a gunshow loophole.

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Response to MisterP (Reply #28)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:07 PM

38. The problem with the gun-control outlook is its extremism...

 

As with most prohibitions, the gun-control outlook (it isn't a movement) just can't get enough, and has never seen a control measure it doesn't like. Twenty years ago UCB could have been a national measure, or at a minimum extended to many more states than is currently the case. But the talking heads/groups promoting this legislation are on record for wanting more, more, and more restriction. Extremism begets extremism. Controller/prohibitionists have in effect sunk their own ship.

I would point out that nearly 75% of Americans see the Second as recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms (Gallup since 1959).

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:37 AM

32. Well "Nasty Jack".........


.......what folks like you fail to acknowledge is that defensive gun use is a reality. Even a survey by gun-restriction "scholars" Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig came up with high numbers of defensive uses. As high, in fact, as offensive uses.

Which means whatever cost the taxpayers are forced to pay in criminal gun uses (offensive) is saved by what is NOT SPENT by these defensive uses.

Derp.....derp......derp.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Original post)

Fri May 15, 2015, 02:01 PM

37. Nasty Jack, you've got a bit of cognitive dissonance going on:

 

https://www.authonomy.com/user/ce4841e0-4c17-42e6-94fa-b88c46acbf40/

Nasty Jack

As a former data broker in the junk mail industry for 35 years, I came to the realization that business and government were dangerously placing our names and personal data in great jeopardy. Since leaving the business, the security of consumers' private information has been acutely and repeatedly compromised, leading to today's identity crisis, something I hope to help remedy in my writing.

In April of 2005 I launched my blog, "The Dunning Letter," which advocates giving back control to the consumer of their sensitive data, and compensating them when it is sold.


http://nastyjackbuzz.blogspot.com/

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #37)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:43 PM

45. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ALL SUPPOSED TO MEAN?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #45)

Fri May 15, 2015, 08:48 PM

50. And you tend to yell way too much. n/t

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #50)

Fri May 15, 2015, 08:57 PM

51. It's necessary to get through to gun nuts.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #51)

Fri May 15, 2015, 09:03 PM

52. You might try using the truth sometime.

 

The regular posters here have repeatedly dealt with the faslehoods you have posted so far. Let go of the talking points and look at the facts in evidence.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #51)

Fri May 15, 2015, 10:41 PM

55. And again with the insult

You insist on being taken seriously, and all you seem to be able to do is yell and insult.

Pitiful, and childish

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #51)

Sun May 17, 2015, 09:02 PM

64. who do you...

...consider to be a "gun nut"?

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #45)

Sat May 16, 2015, 03:54 PM

59. I have no idea...

...what your posts are supposed to mean.

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Response to Nasty Jack (Reply #45)

Sun May 17, 2015, 04:52 PM

61. It means..

Gun control advocates SELL their email lists to anyone, for profit...

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #37)

Sun May 17, 2015, 04:51 PM

60. LOL... Very good post Friendly!

More torpedoes into a very shaky wheelhouse.. One that is propped up on lies, willful ignorance, and deliberate misinformation..

And yet, he thinks they are winning!

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #60)

Sun May 17, 2015, 07:47 PM

63. but....butt guns kill people donja' know!!!

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