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Tue Aug 30, 2016, 01:37 PM

Firearm design

Everyone knows what a firearm is.

Here's the definition of "Design":
1>> a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is built or made.
2>> purpose, planning, or intention that exists or is thought to exist behind an action, fact, or material object.

The pro-control folks who are stuck on the "designed to kill" idea are obviously applying meaning #1 of design. What everyone needs to accept is that meaning #2 applied to the assailants who do the killing (i.e. - planning, or intention that exists behind an action) is more meaningful than the construction of any inanimate object.

The idea that there is a "deadliness" inherent to the design of an object bears little on the experienced deadliness of any object actual employed as a weapon. Determination, planning, skill, strength, resources and preparation are more important in the act of killing than the design of an object.

Why is this so impossible to grasp?

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply Firearm design (Original post)
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 OP
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #1
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #2
jonno99 Aug 2016 #6
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #8
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #7
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #9
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #3
JonathanRackham Aug 2016 #4
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #5
packman Aug 2016 #10
beevul Aug 2016 #12
benEzra Aug 2016 #13
jmg257 Aug 2016 #11

Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:12 PM

1. "Designed to kill" is a moral declaration.

If killing is immoral than anything designed towards that end would likewise be immoral.

But if deadly force can ever be employed morally, i.e. in defense of self or the law, then morality is no longer attached to the device but rather to the motives of those employing the device.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:16 PM

2. It's often said, "The don't justify the means."

If the ends don't justify the means, what does?

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:50 PM

6. It depends on the "end" and it depends on the "means". A more accurate

way of stating it would be:

the ends don't always justify the means.

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Response to jonno99 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 03:06 PM

8. True

I've usually heard that in relation to 'means' that people find objectionable.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:54 PM

7. "If the ends don't justify the means, what does?"

Well, in fairness, it's also been said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Gun control, for instance.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 03:10 PM

9. I'll be hacking my gps to remove anything labelled "good intentions"



Basic levels of gun laws are acceptable. Those that actually aim to control are usually bad and ineffective.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:18 PM

3. And then there are "Zombie Knives." A type banned in the UK...

 

It has one conventional cutting edge, a serrated edge, and inscriptions which describe its purpose for killing. At least the Brits look for a formal declaration.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:31 PM

4. Another cosmetically impaired consumer product.

I wonder if the same politicians have ever used roofing hatchets, first responder rescue axes or Swiss Army knives?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 02:41 PM

5. I suppose an inscription qualifies as an aspect of design

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 03:34 PM

10. Think about this - two persons and both have

"Determination, planning, skill, strength, resources and preparation "

BUT - one has a gun, the other their bare hands or something that doesn't rip you apart several times at a distance .

That, to me, is what makes a gun and its construction something that needs controls.

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Response to packman (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 04:43 PM

12. Think about this.

 

"Determination, planning, skill, strength, resources and preparation "


Anyone with all those things is going to get a gun or something even more destructive no matter what you do about guns where the rest of us are concerned.

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Response to packman (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 04:58 PM

13. Except that the gun control lobby's top priority is to ban the *least* misused guns.

Murder, by State and Type of Weapon, 2014 (FBI)

[font face="courier new"]Total murders...................... 11,961
Handguns............................ 5,562 (46.5%)
Firearms (type unknown)............. 2,052 (17.2%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,610 (13.5%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,567 (13.1%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 660 (5.5%)
Shotguns.............................. 262 (2.2%)
Rifles................................ 248 (2.1%) [/font]

Consider that the next time someone demands a ban on the most popular rifles in U.S. homes.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Aug 30, 2016, 03:59 PM

11. Seems to be a lot of experience with guns being used for killing.

"The idea that there is a "deadliness" inherent to the design of an object bears little on the experienced deadliness of any object actual employed as a weapon"

If you've got "Determination..." and at least half a brain, its pretty much what you'll be looking to grab next. For the convenience, they are quite capable.


Anyway, the 2 in this case sort of go hand in hand.

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