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Sun May 13, 2018, 11:29 AM

FBI report on active shooters during 2016-2017

Interesting read, if you are into this sort of thing. Does it challenge any positions?
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-us-2016-2017.pdf/view

4 replies, 3350 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
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Reply FBI report on active shooters during 2016-2017 (Original post)
gejohnston May 2018 OP
yagotme May 2018 #1
gejohnston May 2018 #2
spin May 2018 #3
jimmy the one May 2018 #4

Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 06:52 PM

1. Hmmm. Seems that the argument of a "good guy with a gun"

can hold water after all.

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Response to yagotme (Reply #1)

Sun May 13, 2018, 08:03 PM

2. It confirms it

Kind of like an Interpol report some years ago.

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Response to yagotme (Reply #1)

Mon May 14, 2018, 04:14 AM

3. Civilians, some armed and some unarmed, successfully stopped 8 of 50 ...

active shooter incidents.

From the report:


Citizen Engagement and Casualties

In 10 incidents, citizens confronted the shooter. In eight of those incidents, one or more citizens safely and successfully acted to end the shooting.
■ In four incidents, unarmed citizens confronted or persuaded the shooter to end the shooting.
In two incidents. school staff confronted and restrained the shooter. In one incident the citizen used his car to thwart the shooter. In one incident the citizen persuaded the shooter to surrender via telephone during a police chase; she ran up to the shooter’s car as he came to a stop and pulled him out of his seat, bringing the chase to an end.
■ In four incidents, citizens possessing valid firearms permits successfully stopped the shooter. In two incidents,20 citizens exchanged gunfire with the shooter. In two incidents, the citizens held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.
■ In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit exchanged gunfire with the shooter, causing the shooter to flee to another scene and continue shooting.
■ In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit was wounded before he could fire at the shooter.

***snip***

Armed and unarmed citizens engaged the shooter in 10 incidents. They safely and successfully ended the shootings in eight of those incidents. Their selfless actions likely saved many lives.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-us-2016-2017.pdf/view

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Response to gejohnston (Original post)

Tue May 15, 2018, 03:36 PM

4. Can't see ccw as the reason for any

Citizen Engagement and Casualties In 10 incidents, citizens confronted the shooter. In eight of those incidents, one or more citizens safely and successfully acted to end the shooting.

I do not think any of these were done by drawing a concealed carry firearm (pistol on person).
I think subcategories below proper - that is 1a 1b & 1c comprise the 'four incidents' involving unarmed citz, such that 1, 2, 3, & 4 add up to the Ten incidents noted above:

#1: In four incidents, unarmed citizens confronted or persuaded the shooter to end the shooting.
..1a: In two incidents, school staff confronted and restrained the shooter.
..1b: In one incident, the citizen used his car to thwart the shooter.
..1c: In one incident, the citizen persuaded the shooter to surrender via telephone during a police chase;

#2: In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit was wounded before he could fire at the shooter.

#3: In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit exchanged gunfire with the shooter, causing shooter to flee to another scene and continue shooting.

#4: In four incidents, citizens possessing valid firearms permits successfully stopped the shooter.
.. 4a: In two incidents, citizens exchanged gunfire with the shooter.
.. 4b: In two incidents, the citizens held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.


First Incident involving exchanged gunfire: Nov 2017, Robt Bailey, 28, armed handgun, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of Schlenker Automotive in Rockledge, Florida. The manager of the auto repair shop and an employee, both possessing valid firearms permits, exchanged gunfire with the shooter. One person killed; one wounded.. shooter, shot twice, held at gunpoint by manager until law enforcement arrived
>>> First Incident was not a mass shooting, one killed one (two) wounded. Bailey, the shooter: Bailey ha{d} no criminal record and was a concealed carry weapons permit holder... Two employees are concealed carry permits holders and had guns available. One of them stepped outside the shop with a .380 semiautomatic Ruger handgun and fired two shots at Bailey, then retreated back into the shop. Bailey returned fire and ran into the shop. Once inside, one of the employees shot Bailey twice to subdue him before police arrived. https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2017/12/01/black-friday-schlenker-shooting-what-we-know/911335001/

First incident does not validate carrying concealed as a defensive gun use (dgu), since the 2 civilians were inside the shop where guns could've been quickly retrieved. Bravo btw.
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Second Incident involving gunfire was a mass shooting: SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex. — Devin Kelley, 26, ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, opened fire on parishioners at Baptist church Texas, killing at least 26 people.. emerged from the church, an armed neighbor exchanged gunfire with him, hitting Mr. Kelley, who fled in his vehicle >> Kelley was shot in leg and torso by an armed citizen, https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html

Bona fide defensive gun use in a mass shooting, albeit after the fact, but perhaps before a later planned attack.
Not a concealed carry dgu though, since armed civilian shot a rifle (this might just be my #3 above)
-------------------------------------
Third incident, armed citizen holds shooter (wounded in the chest) at bay: Sep 24, 2017, Emanuel Samson, 25, armed with two handguns shooting in parking lot of Burnette Chapel Church Antioch, Tennessee. After killing one person, shooter entered church shot six people. A citizen who attempted to subdue the shooter was pistol-whipped. During the altercation -- accidentally shot himself in the chest. Engle ran to his car to get his own gun and pointed it at the wounded Samson until police arrived to arrest him.. While the shooter was preoccupied, the citizen, who possessed a valid firearms permit, retrieved a handgun from his car and held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived. One person was killed; seven were wounded.

Does not validate concealed carry as a dgu, since dgu gun was in engle's car.
The nra might give a dgu to the shooter for accidentally shooting himself.
---------------------------------
Fourth Incident, armed cit holds shooter at bay (uncertain dgu, I see no other to qualify, but this does not say firefighter was armed: {14 yo} shooter was apprehended by local firefighter Jamie Brock who managed to wrestle the shooter to the ground and pin him down until police arrived. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3814567/Little-Jesse-14-gunned-father-two-schoolboys-six-expelled-bringing-machete-hatchet-class-bullied.html#ixzz5FbB1Rkdm
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Other of interest:
1 . (my #2 above: . One killed; six wounded, including two law officers and an armed civilian who was wounded while attempting to stop the shooter.
2 One plainclothes law enforcement officer was killed by friendly fire; no one was wounded
3 ..With the help of a police canine, the shooter was found hiding
4 The shooter was killed by a bomb-carrying robot.

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