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Thu Sep 5, 2019, 03:48 PM

Remember the widespread advocacy here of "no fly no buy" laws? I do:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/us/politics/terrorism-watchlist-constitution.html


Judge Rules Terrorism Watchlist Violates Constitutional Rights

By Charlie Savage


WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that a federal government database that compiles people deemed to be “known or suspected terrorists” violates the rights of American citizens who are on the watchlist, calling into question the constitutionality of a major tool the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security use for screening potential terrorism suspects.

Being on the watchlist can restrict people from traveling or entering the country, subject them to greater scrutiny at airports and by the police, and deny them government benefits and contracts. In a 32-page opinion, Judge Anthony J. Trenga of United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia said the standard for inclusion in the database was too vague.

“The court concludes that the risk of erroneous deprivation of plaintiffs’ travel-related and reputational liberty interests is high, and the currently existing procedural safeguards are not sufficient to address that risk,” Judge Trenga wrote.Sept. 4, 2019...

...Among them, a group of 19 Americans, represented by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, filed a lawsuit charging that their inclusion violated their due process rights. Recounting tales of being detained and harassed when trying to enter the country, they argued that they did not receive notice of why they were being put on the list or an opportunity to contest derogatory claims.


Amazing the number of purported 'progressives' who were quite willing to elide Islamophobia and denial of due process
because guns:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027924284

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027937105

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027942806

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027936599

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027936599

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027947845

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141267571

To which I say:

I'm glad this decision came down

Fuck your willingness to see the Constitution trampled

Good on Judge Trenga for his decision.

6 replies, 1095 views

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Reply Remember the widespread advocacy here of "no fly no buy" laws? I do: (Original post)
friendly_iconoclast Sep 5 OP
PBC_Democrat Sep 5 #1
MartinLane Sep 5 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 5 #2
sarisataka Sep 5 #3
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 5 #4
MartinLane Sep 5 #6

Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 04:25 PM

1. I was a huge critic of No Fly - No Buy ...

The fact that you can be denied a constitutional right by being placed on a secret list sounds like something that has a giant potential for abuse.

I'm glad to see this ruling.

Here's my bold (and flame-worthy) prediction ...

The Red-Flag laws will be struck down even before the SCOTUS has to rule on them.

Our legal system is not based on "having to prove I'm innocent".

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Response to PBC_Democrat (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 08:42 PM

5. Think again

 

When law enforcement can bring a civil suit against your car or a wad of cash by claiming it is part of a drug operation, then why should they worry about "precrime" actions like seizing guns from those who some think are dangerous.

Ted flag laws actually have much more due process involved then most civil forfeiture.

It gets worse. Trump has advocated for taking the guns first, due process second. I'm not sure how this would work. I guess I could steal someone's gun, then tell the police I was asking in the community's best interest?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 05:08 PM

2. As I said before...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027937105#post31
IMHO the list needs to go. It's never a good idea to have secret government lists of "enemies of the state", especially if they're US citizens. What's next... prison with out trial? Oh wait, Gitmo.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 05:41 PM

3. It was quite amazing

How many people became fans of Bush/Cheney policies when it came to guns. Many thought (and I can only assume still think) BoR meant Bill of Recommendations.

I believe it was only in the last week or so I saw someone supporting using these lists along with other authoritarian fantasies of the military going door to door backed by Blackhawk gunships. Somehow it is assumed only "bad" people will get their rights trampled and "good" people will not be affected.

This decision should have happened within a year of the creation of these lists.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 08:03 PM

4. "We won't suspend the civil rights of the good people."

Character Carla Dean from the movie Enemy of the State about 30 minutes into the movie.
There are still things to be learned from 20 year old movies.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 08:44 PM

6. Bush would keep AWB94 alive.

 

Bush said he would sign a bill extending the AWB of 1994 if Congress passed it. I think he was counting on Congress not doing so, but it still pissed off some gun owners.

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