Kids and Guns: Two Cities, Two Very Different Approaches to Gun Control

[IamK]

http://www.youthtoday.org/view_article.cfm?article_id=5370

June 15, 2012 by Yunjiao Amy Li and Eric Ferkenhoff A Texas shooting range is hosting parties for 8-year-olds.

Headlines from Dallas and Chicago over the past few days seem to underscore that the debate over gun rights, following the Trayvon Martin killing, is far from settled.

In Dallas, there was this: A gun range in nearby Lewisville is prepping a program to host children’s parties for those as young as 8 to enjoy cake, ice cream and some shooting. It’s a very “Texas” thing to do, they say, and Eagle Gun Range is just an example of the state’s proud stance on gun rights.

<snip>

Consider that 480 people in Cook County, which covers Chicago, have been charged under a 2009 law designed to target gang members carrying guns. The law, which was pushed by the Cook County State’s Attorney after a Chicago police officer was slain, adds a serious weapons offense to any other charge the suspect is facing from an incident.

And just this week, Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn signed a new anti-gang law that targets drugs, weapons and other offenses under RICO-like statutes that allow for more sweeping prosecutions and are frequently used in federal court to go after drug cartels and organized crime. The idea was to more easily get at a gang’s hierarchy instead of charging low-level drug and weapons dealers – who are often the younger members of a gang.

[HockeyMom]

1. I think these people would allow 12 year olds to carry guns

How else could a teenage girl possible PROTECT HERSELF?

[PavePusher]

2. Which people are "these people"? n/t

[HockeyMom]

4. Just about all of the pro-gun

card carrying NRA members.

[Clames]

5. Thanks for proving how little you know about this subject...

...and how new you are to this group...

[HockeyMom]

6. What group?

I've been, unfortunately, living around guns and my NRA life membership husband for 38 years. I don't know anything at all I guess, if I DISAGREE with guns? I am from NYC (him too), I know about gun control, and have lobbied for it there.

[Common Sense Party]

21. How do you DISAGREE with a gun?

Or agree with one, for that matter?

I've never once had a conversation with a gun, much less an argument.

One thing I've noticed about many gun controllers is that they often want to anthropomorphize inanimate objects.

[HockeyMom]

155. I agree with Gun CONTROL

Understand? Too many OBSESSED gun owner. I don't trust them. That includes my husband.

[Common Sense Party]

165. You don't trust your husband? That's sad.

Why are you married to him?

[NewMoonTherian]

23. I think Clames is trying to express...

that you're uninformed on the subject and this group(the DU Gun group) if you think we on the pro-gun side are in favor of children carrying guns. I would go so far as to call that an ignorant notion. But I don't think you really believe it. I think you're engaging in hyperbole because your emotions are overwhelming your rationality on this subject.

[rl6214]

141. "I've been, unfortunately, living around guns and my NRA life membership husband for 38 years."

Yeah, we know...you post that in nearly every gun thread you post in.

[gejohnston]

148. Speaking of NYC

there was a retired NYPD officer selling guns at the flea market up the road from me. You were around in 1911 and lobbied with Tim Sullivan?

[HockeyMom]

154. I have guns in every room my house

Husband has been a life long NRA member for over 40 years. If you mean I know little about this subject becuase I am ANTI GUN, I plead guilty as charged. It is no picinic living with a gun toting NRA lover.

[HockeyMom]

156. And we will be dead sooner rather than later

No gun is going to stop that.

[gejohnston]

157. can I get in his will?

I'll take the guns off your hands. The cops are just going to add them to their personal collections or sell them at the flea market. BTW, I hope they are where the grand kids can't get them.

[HockeyMom]

158. The guns are up in the attic now

Great place for them!!! They have been up there since we went on vacation a month ago. He was afraid somebody would break in while we were away and steal then. Always afraid of burglars/mugger stealing HIS guns. lol Out of sight, out of mind? Too lazy to go get them to PROTECT HIMSELF? Repeat HIMSELF, not me. Fine. They can stay in the attic.

Great great owner, right? Have a CCW and doesn't carry. Guns at home for protection up in the attic. Actually, I find it very funny.

[gejohnston]

159. maybe he got it so he

does not have to do the three day waiting period Florida has.

[Clames]

160. What did you do? Wake up after a month...

...and thought you had a point to make here. Guess what, you didn't quite make it. Try again on August 15th and see if you can do a little better...

[HockeyMom]

161. Maybe you don't like HIS attitude towards his guns?

Honestly, they are almost like a coin collection really. They just sit around the house, and he looks at them once in a while. CCW? How when they are in the house, and now in the attic? Think about it. What is the point? Only because he CAN own them.

[gejohnston]

162. does he have any

good collectors items or antiques or is it just a collection?

[Clames]

163. Don't really care.

I'm sure there is something you collect that he thinks is every bit as useless too.

[rl6214]

140. Of course you would, only you and the rest of the anti-gun zealots.

[PavePusher]

3. So, there is some equivalence between an adult-supervised birthday party activity...

and gang activity?

What a stupid, pointless, article.

[Hoyt]

7. Like we need more of this --

[PavePusher]

10. Nicely cropped photo.

Is there adult supervision behind him?

Only the Shadow knows... (or maybe Hoyt, but he ain't telling...)

[Hoyt]

13. I didn't touch photo - it's from a right wing NRA meeting.

The gotta wonder about the "adult supervision."

[GreenStormCloud]

32. Look closely. The guns are locked.

That is a display table at an NRA convention. At such tables the guns are always locked by a cable to the table and the gun is locked so that it can't be loaded.

You may resume your unwarranted hysteria now.

[Hoyt]

33. Geeeez, point you missed -- it's like home-schooling kids to believe in creationism, greed, etc.

Obviously the guns are locked, unloaded, maybe even inoperable.

But, the gun culture is attempting to brainwash young children into the world of guns at a time when we'd best be trying to change perception of guns -- not glamorizing and promoting them.

[Whiskey_Dude]

40. Really?

Glamorizing and promoting? If it weren't for guns, there would be no America. If there were no America, you wouldn't be here on the internet complaining about all these rights people fought and died for. Really, can you give some valid reason why it is wrong to teach kids proper gun handling? Because your opinions are not convincing anyone.

[Hoyt]

50. "If it weren't for guns, there would be no America." America is not a "war zone" except to those

who want to take "their country back." What a crock.

[bongbong]

59. Talking Points

There are maybe 30 NRA Talking Points, all lies, that 3 groups:

*) the gun-religionists
*) the sent-by-the-NRA-to-muck-up-Liberal-website gang
*) the random assorted nuts

post endlessly, over-n-over, to produce the "Big Lie" effect. They've been ordered to do this on DU. Sane people have to post the same debunking logic & facts over-n-over.

The Gun Religion is full of super-adherent acolytes, that's for sure!

[rl6214]

142. Yet you keep coming back over and over with your snark.

And you like to talk about the NRA talking points. Where do you get yours, do you write your own material or get it from the Brady bunch?

[bongbong]

149. Yes

> Where do you get yours, do you write your own material or get it from the Brady bunch?

My own observations. I'm one of those "edumacated libruls" that right-wingnuts like to whine about, and use guns to murder (like at that Unitarian church and the other places the right wing has murdered Liberals)

[rl6214]

152. Right, sure you do

And you forgot your

[Hoyt]

92. Where did our right wing gun lover go?

[4th law of robotics]

52. Actually isn't insisting they remain ignorant and fearful of guns

more akin to home-schooling and creationism?

Or more specifically: abstinence-only sex-ed.

[Hoyt]

54. Oh sure, having 8 year olds blasting away at silhouette targets is good parenting. LMAO

[4th law of robotics]

55. No no, absolutely not. I think you should teach kids that guns are sinful mysterious objects

and then give them no education on how to use them.

That will guarantee that A) they have no interest in guns and B) if they ever do come across one they will know exactly how to handle one.

There. Solved! Just like teen pregnancy: remember kids, sex is evil and mysterious and you should never do it. So we're going to talk about it a lot but not give you any useful information.

[Hoyt]

56. Sex is hardly "evil." Walking around in public with a gun ready to shoot, is.

[4th law of robotics]

57. Shooting ranges being public places now.

Due to the law of "if I hate guns enough I can make non-truths in to truths!"


Funny to hear a progressive arguing for ignorance over education out of fears that people may not make the same decisions he did.

[Hoyt]

63. Even funnier are "progressives" promoting more guns in more places, and worse.

[4th law of robotics]

67. dun Dun DUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adding that "and worse" really helps your argument.

What could it be? Why anything. All we know is that it will be dire. Dire indeed!



An educated and rational individual could accept that no studies have been found linking gun prevalence and violence in the US.

[Hoyt]

70. They laughed at Columbus when he said world is round. They laughed at Newton. Clearly guns don't

promote peace nowadays.

Sometimes things are clear without the need to study them -- well, unless you are trying to rationalize something like more and more people packing guns in public is good for society.

[4th law of robotics]

78. No one laughed at Columbus for saying the world was round

it was a well established notion at that time.

They just got the size wrong.

But I suppose that shows you're well rounded in your ignorance.

"Sometimes things are clear without the need to study them"

The motto of every hopeless ideologue and religious fanatic ever.

In science v anti-vaccers you'd be an anti-vaccer.

In science v creationism you'd be a creationist.

In science v homeopathy you'd be the homeopath.

[PavePusher]

89. You're no Columbus. n/t

[bongbong]

72. LOL

> An educated and rational individual could accept that no studies have been found linking gun prevalence and violence in the US.

Now you're just lying.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

Gun religionists lie in the service of a Higher Cause.

[gejohnston]

85. no peer reviewed studies

written by purchased shills. He should have clarified.

[4th law of robotics]

90. Correct,

I didn't think it needed to be said. But I suppose I shouldn't take anything for granted here.

Like in the Labyrinth.

[bongbong]

114. yes!

> written by purchased shills. He should have clarified.

The old "only the evidence that agrees with my point is acceptable" post.

Lovely!

[bongbong]

60. Funny Gun Religionist!

So sex, which uses body parts that you're already equipped with, is similar to guns, which must use something you come equipped with.

At least the gun religionists think so.

[4th law of robotics]

65. You misunderstand

the question was on ignorance: a certain population wishes to pursue that as a policy, others prefer education.

If you're ever in a position where you must argue in favor of ignorance to support your position you ought to reconsider your position.

[bongbong]

74. yes

> If you're ever in a position where you must argue in favor of ignorance to support your position you ought to reconsider your position.

If you're ever in a position to create a Strawman in favor of guns, SPIN AWAY <- first law of the Gun Religionist

[4th law of robotics]

81. What are your thoughts on this quote:

"Sometimes things are clear without the need to study them"

[permatex]

84. Why even bother with h/her?

I've noticed in my short time here that most of the people in this group just ignore h/her.

[4th law of robotics]

87. Well for one poking the bear can be fun

I'll probably just put the hoyt on ignore after a little bit but for now I'm enjoying it.

For another he/she so perfectly illustrates the anti-gun nuts mentality that I can't pass it up.

"I don't need not stinking studies, I just feel guns are bad . . . "

Either it's brilliant satire or hoyt is the most perfect caricature ever.

[permatex]

88. Hoyt and bongbong are both hilarious

with their obvious lack of knowledge on firearms but I won't put them on ignore because I love learning just how little they both know.

[HALO141]

93. Still... The insulting predictability does get tiresome at times.

Kind of like listening to an Amish person attack transportation policy and your willingness to take part in it. The key difference, of course, is that the Amish don't go around trying to bully the rest of the world into adopting their philosophy.

[rl6214]

144. Especially when s/he has to put :rofl: and "gun religionists" in every post to make h/her point

[bongbong]

117. Religion

> "Sometimes things are clear without the need to study them"

True of any religion, whether it's gun-religion or something else.

[sarisataka]

120. Those were Hoyt's words...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117244467#post70

True of any religion, whether it's {anti-}gun-religion or something else.

[CokeMachine]

129. Bongbong was just GongGonged

[4th law of robotics]

123. I agree entirely

Now go look at the source of that quote and the context it was used in.



/ya dun goofed!

[rl6214]

143. You know you've lost every arguement when you have to put :rofl: behind EVERY post

[bongbong]

150. Interesting

> You know you've lost every arguement when you have to put behind EVERY post

Interesting rule. You'd better tell a lot of other DU-ers about it, since they are "guilty" of it too.

[permatex]

75. It's excellent parenting

Not only do you bond with your children, have a fun day at the range or out in the desert, but it also teaches the kids that a gun is not a toy and they can see the damage it can do.
Again, how we teach our kids is none of your business.

[Meiko]

104. Just a kid

exercising his curiosity. He would be doing the same thing if it were a toy in front of him. It is an example of why teaching kids gun safety is so important.

[Atypical Liberal]

29. Here is the source of the photo

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2012/06/balloon-clowns-beware-gun-range-in-lewisville-will-host-kids-birthday-parties.html/

Here he is again:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/roger-wommack-and-eight-year-old-dakota-stevenson-look-over-news-photo/73880108

[Hoyt]

34. Did you take the time to read the caption about where it came from . . . . . .

"An 8-year-old checks out Walther pistols at an annual meeting of the National Rifle Association in St. Louis. ( SCOTT OLSON/Getty Images)"

I sure hope you are more perceptive when carrying a gun into public places.

[permatex]

45. How we raise our kids

is none of your business. All of mine were familiar with safe weapons handling by the age of 7 and were all shooting by the age of 8.
None of them became cowboys, yahoos, or whatever else you like to call those that choose to CC.
All of my kids also now have CCP's and I just last week applied for mine.

[Hoyt]

49. That is great. What are all of you afraid of that you need a gun?

Last edited Wed Jul 11, 2012, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

[HALO141]

61. Hahahah Just a guess, here, but I'm thinkin'

Not a damned thing!

[permatex]

71. Not a thing.

I'll wager to say that if you ever approached any of my kids and treated them like you've alledgedly treated other concealed carriers, you would probably be picking yourself up off the ground.

[Hoyt]

73. Oh that's nice. Rather than threatening me directly, you use your kids. LMAO

[permatex]

79. I'm not threating you at all, nor am I using my kids.

My point is don't be a dick towards people and you won't have a thing to worry about.
My motto is live and let live.

[Hoyt]

91. Tell us the truth, Tex, you applied for your gun permit so that you don't have to take any

thing off other people.

[permatex]

96. Nope, not at all

BTW, do you have any idea what permatex means? I'll give you a hint, it ain't because I live in TX., which I don't.

[Hoyt]

99. Sounds like it to me, especially when you tell us how your kids are going to react physically

Last edited Wed Jul 11, 2012, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

to someone who criticizes them for gun toting in peaceful city streets.

[permatex]

100. And I care what it sounds like to you because...........................................?

If you don't want a confrontation, don't confront people doing perfectly legal activities. Pretty simple.
I went into the archives and found some gems from you, like, CCP holders should be held until police arrived to "check their papers". You have any idea what that smacks of? Nazi Germany. Or, another gem from you, chase them down the street to embarrass them.

Too fucking funny.

Did you ever figure out what permatex means?

[gejohnston]

101. and Jan Brewer's Arizona NT

[Hoyt]

102. How do I know toters are legally strutting around with guns? As far as I know, they are headed to a

massacre.

Actually, I think walking around with a gun in public smacks of "Nazis" and the Klan.

I have no idea what Permatex means to you. My favorite comment about Permatex products is that "the glue sucks balls." YMMV though.

[gejohnston]

103. Godwin violation,

you lose. Painting with a broad brush is so.......................................Rush (not the band)

[Meiko]

107. So now

lawful CCW holders are Nazi's and KKK members? Is there no end to your foolishness.

[friendly_iconoclast]

124. Try this version: How do I know brown people are legally strutting around with proof of citizenship?

Same mindset...

[Hoyt]

126. Not same at all. Besides, some "law-abiding" gun toters "patrol" the border to shoot immigrants.

How could you guys forget these wonderful examples of a "law-abiding" gun owners:








Fine examples of what many of you would call "law-abiding" gun owners.

[gejohnston]

127. what's with the European and Canadian uniform parts?

second pic, guy in the middle: his pants looks Canadian more than USMC.
bottom pic: guy on right, his beret is the same shade of green as the French Foreign Legion's. The guy in the middle, same pic, his shirt looks very British.

Who are these clowns?

[Hoyt]

128. These are fine examples of "law-abiding" gun owners who "patrol" the border hoping to shoot someone.

You can read more about this fine example at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._T._Ready

"Ready was politically active in anti-immigration causes. He served as president of the Mesa Community College Republican Party Club and as a precinct committeeman for the Maricopa County Republicans. Ready unsuccessfully campaigned for a seat in the Arizona House of Representatives in 2004 and for a seat on the city council for Mesa, Arizona in 2006.[14] He put forth as his motto that "The Purity of the Aryan Race is the most precious resource Nature has to offer All of Humankind."[2] Ready founded a private organization called the U.S. Border Guard in June 2010, which aimed to curtail illegal immigration by conducting armed patrols along the Arizona-Mexico border.[17] He attended and spoke at Tea Party movement events[18] and brought his Border Guard organization to an Occupy Phoenix rally.[19] . . . . . ."


He has probably been considered for a board seat at the NRA.

In any event, these are just a glimpse at the type of people who think guns are cool and a the perfect "tool" for whatever despicable feelings they have toward fellow human beings.

How many of you have guns like these nice guys?

[gejohnston]

130. law abiding my ass

he was a convicted felon that got a BCD from the USMC. He was violating the GCA by having any kind of firearm. Plus, was another fucking Sun City colonist (like California native Jan Brewer and New Jersey native "sheriff" Joe) who moved to the southwest to make it in their image, fucking up race relations in the processes. The difference between a transplant and a colonist is their attitude. When someone moved to Arizona saw a lot of brown people (who's family was there first mostly) including their mayor or governor, they adapted and dealt with it. The colonists freaked and tried to turn it in to racist Dearborn and Long Island.
There is a difference between transplant and colonist. Spin and I are transplants to Florida. The people in gated communities that came for the weather and don't give a shit about the history, culture, or the environment of the place are the colonists.

The reason I say was, is that he is dead.

[Hoyt]

131. He's an example of the gun culture, and he was willing to shoot immigrants if given an opportunity.

As I've said before, bigotry and guns go together.

I still wonder how many gun lovers have guns like his, and like to take similar photos?

[gejohnston]

132. and Osama is an example of

Arabs and Muslims, and Pat Robertson is an example of Christians. That is your logic. You are projecting bigotry on others without dealing with the bigot in the mirror.
So, is it flamebait or satire? I really want to know.

[Hoyt]

133. Sad fact is, those who promote guns everywhere are responsible for pigs like this.

And most either don't care, or actually support pigs like Ready (notice his Republican affiliations).

[gejohnston]

134. sad fact is, bigot create other bigots. NT

[Hoyt]

135. I've admitted it before, I am quite bigoted against those who tote guns in public.

[rl6214]

147. "I am quite bigoted against those who tote guns in public."

Among other things I'm sure

[Hoyt]

151. True, I am extremely bigoted against bigots who tote. Which pretty much covers

the largest group of toters -- right wingers.

[rl6214]

153. Among other groups as well I'm sure

[PavePusher]

136. They do not appear to be breaking any laws in those photos.

What is your point?

[Hoyt]

137. I know, in your world hunting people should be an Olympic sport.

[PavePusher]

138. You are either very confused, lying or mentally ill. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

125. So how many have you actually confronted and detained? Like you advised others to do?

Methinks your mouth writes a lot of checks your ass has never cashed...

[rl6214]

146. You do know the Nazis were very anti-gun and pro gun control, don't you?

[bongbong]

80. Violence

> Oh that's nice. Rather than threatening me directly, you use your kids. LMAO

Violence, thinking about violence, and imagining revenge-filled bloody scenarios is what keeps the gun-religion strong & healthy!

[permatex]

86. Your so cute.

[bongbong]

111. Spelling

You keep making the same spelling errors. Funny stuff! When you can master 2nd grade spelling, perhaps you'll understand politics better (letting go of the "I NEED TO BE ARMED TO WALK IN PUBLIC!" fear would help too)

[permatex]

113. I spell it like that just to see

if you anti's will make fools of yourselves rather than be serious. Guess what? You took the bait. Joke's on you bub.

[bongbong]

115. Sure you do

Yes, I'm SURE that was your Master Plan all along, Mr. Super Sly Guy!

[permatex]

118. Do you honestly think your little remarks

bug me in the least? I've gotten worse from far better. Have a good night.

[bongbong]

119. Bugs

> bug me in the least? I've gotten worse from far better. Have a good night.

Do you honestly think I care in the slightest? You gun-religionists provide lots of comedy for me. Secondly, I am researching how religion screws up one's head, and how a religion can actually destroy the ability to reason & use logic.

You have a good night too. Thanks for the data!

[Hoyt]

95. None of them really expect to need to defend themselves. But, they can see wanting to intimidate

folks.

[HALO141]

97. How, exactly, would they use such a thing to "intimidate folks?"

[permatex]

98. Now we want to intimidate people?

And the insults from the uninformed keep flowing like shit from a goose.

[PavePusher]

108. Is there no end to our perfidy?!?! n/t

[rl6214]

145. Don't you know they would have to dodge cans of pork and beans?

[4th law of robotics]

58. There were guns at an NRA meeting?!?!?!?

Where are those pearls? They are in a desperate need of clutching!

[ileus]

16. Walther PPS's kids got good taste.

[Common Sense Party]

22. What is wrong with that?

[Atypical Liberal]

28. Indeed we do.

I will raise my kids just so.

And that looks like a gun show. They don't let kids in without an adult.

[Whiskey_Dude]

42. I see nothing wrong with this picture

I looked pretty good too, but I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is with a kid checking out guns at a gun show.

[Hangingon]

8. You think my 8 year old nephew is the same as

a Chicago gang banger!! Do you not see the ndifferernce between a child shooting at a safe range under adult supervision and an underage gangbang/drug dealer runiining around at 2:00 am shooting up Cabrini Green? Unbelievable

[Hoyt]

9. I wonder at what age Loughner, Stawicki, Zimmerman, etc., were given a happy birthday at the range?

[PavePusher]

11. That's a vile insinuation.

When can we adopt the DKos rule: "Don't be a dick."

[Lurks Often]

18. We're pro-gun, which means

the anti-gun posters can pretty much say or imply anything they want about us, when in other areas of DU they would be tomb stoned for their behavior.

[bongbong]

62. Victims

Now I see why gun-religioinists think they need to carry weapons around all the time.

"I'm a VICTIM!!!"

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Were you given...

Last edited Sat Jun 16, 2012, 09:12 AM - Edit history (1)

...a "happy" birthday ever? Why are you all about doom?

Doesn't anything make you happy?

[Whiskey_Dude]

43. Ha!

Really. I once was given a shooting range birthday party. Only it wasn't at an actual range, it was in my grandfather's backyard (he lived in a VERY rural area, on 200 acres of land on top of a mountain in East Tenn). I loved every minute of it. Actually it was one of the happiest childhood memories I have.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

51. Cool story

and BTW... Welcome!

[Hoyt]

109. He left already.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

110. Thanks for the update.

How's your day?

[bongbong]

64. Speaking of irony

> ...a "happy" birthday ever? Why are you all about doom?

"I gotta carry a gun around, or lotsa guns, because something BAD might happen!!!"

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

94. Speaking of...

...ignorance...

Well from this little smilie fest I've about read my portion for the day.

[bongbong]

112. OK

It isn't advisable to load your posts up with such unintentional irony, mainly because of your screenname.

Of course, since it IS unintentional (gun-religionists "argue" from the heart, not from the head), it makes me laugh.

Don't worry, an awful lot of posts from gun-religionists are filled to bursting with hilarious (and of course unintentional) irony.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

121. OK

[gejohnston]

19. i doubt it

If Loughter's parents couldn't be bothered to notice his mental health problems to get him help as an adult, I'm willing to bet his childhood kind of sucked too.
Zimmerman is still awaiting trial, not to be confused with the electronic lynching.
Who the fuck is Stawicki?

[Hoyt]

20. I think any kid who is given a birthday party at a gun range has a screwed up life.

Why don't you look up "Stawicki." Ian was another law-abiding gun nut with all the permits. He like -- Zimmerman -- would have been considered a fine example of a gun carrier right up until he killed innocent people. Kind of hard overlooking his killing 5 folks, but you guys have managed to conveniently forget.

[gejohnston]

24. Zimmerman may be whatever

I'll still wait for the real jury. You can accept the electronic lynching at face value if you want.

[Hoyt]

26. Yet, you'll judge someone on the street in a split second.

[gejohnston]

27. never had to

but if they present a genuine threat, that is not "judgement" of a crime against the state. That is ensuring my own safety.

[bongbong]

68. LOL

So you'll never be a Zimmerman or some other murderous gun nut, is that it?

It's the OTHER guy who will misuse his gun, NOT YOU. You're a SPECIAL gun religionist.

-------------------------------------------

It's HILARIOUS reading the clueless posts from gun-nuts!

[gejohnston]

69. Since I don't carry, the answer is obvious

As for Zimmerman, I'll wait for the real trial. You know, the one where real facts come out.

[bongbong]

76. Logic, try it some time

> Since I don't carry, the answer is obvious

So that means you'll never use your gun, huh? You'll NEVER have it anywhere where you could murder somebody, even by yourself?

So why do you need a gun since, by your own post, you never use it?

[gejohnston]

83. learn to read

I said carry. Never said anything about taking it to the range. Big difference.
Logic, try it sometime.

[bongbong]

116. Logic

> said carry. Never said anything about taking it to the range. Big difference.

Oh, so at the range everybody wears Star Trek type shields or something so they can't get killed by your gun?

[Atypical Liberal]

30. This is the difference from being an eyewitness and having only second-hand information.

[Meiko]

105. Yes, if they are trying to kill me

Even you should be able to see the difference.

[HALO141]

106. Making a judgement <> Judging someone

[Atypical Liberal]

31. I think you have absolutely zero appreciation for American heritage.

I received my first firearm, a Ruger 10/22 rifle, for Christmas at about the age of 10.

Countless youths participate in shooting sports. Like any sport, it teaches sportsmanship, discipline, respect, self-control, and safety.

My daughter just attended a birthday party held at her friend's karate studio. Does her friend also have a screwed up life?

[Hoyt]

35. I have lots of appreciation for heritage -- hard to forget how guns have been used to intimidate.

Also hard to forget the law-abiding gun owners like Zimmerman, Stawicki, Loughner, etc.

[Atypical Liberal]

36. That's not the heritage I was talking about.

But I'm sure you knew that.

I'm talking about all the good, wholesome things that come from shooting sports.

[Hoyt]

37. "Good wholesome things" -- I'm not so sure about that, but glad you believe it.

[Atypical Liberal]

38. So what is unwholesome about it?

Again, learning shooting sports is like learning any other martial sport, like archery, karate, or javelin throwing.

You learn teamwork, discipline, self-control, respect, safety, and sportsmanship.

What is unwholesome about this?

[bongbong]

82. LOL

> You learn teamwork

What, is synchronized shooting a sport now?

[Meiko]

122. Yes

Teamwork. Every group endeavor requires a certain amount of teamwork, why do you act like you don't know about such a simple concept. Don't act foolish, it's beneath you.

[sylvi]

164. "Don't act foolish, it's beneath you."

No, it ain't, and that ain't no act.

[Atypical Liberal]

139. There are competitive shooting teams.

>What, is synchronized shooting a sport now?

Here is one competitive shooting venue that has teams.

The Olympics are another.

[Whiskey_Dude]

44. Kinda like you seem to conveniently forget that.....

George Zimmerman has not been proven guilty of killing an "innocent" person. He claims he shot a kid who was bashing his head into concrete. Whether or not that is true, STILL remains to be seen, but if it is true, I'd hardly call Trayvon Martin "innocent". Of course, I am thinking in terms of "innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt". If you want the country to start convicting people on what they "think" happened, well this country is in for some sad days in the future, when the tables are turned and black kids are going to prison for life because someone "thinks" they stomped a white man half to death while screaming "Justice for Trayvon".

[Hoyt]

47. I know, Zimmerman is just a wonderful guy who just happened to chase unarmed teen with his friggin

gun. Without it, he would have sat in his car like the coward he is.

That's enough for me. Since I won't be on his jury, I have no problem reaching that conclusion.

I suppose you support Randy Weaver too?

[permatex]

46. What you think doesn't really matter now , does it?

My kids used to go out in the desert around Phoenix and shoot all of my firearms w/parental supervision and they turned out just fine. It sounds like your the one with the screwed up life.

[Whiskey_Dude]

41. Zimmerman?

You know, it is reallly sad that you use the name of a man who claims to have acted in self defense, from his skull being banged into the concrete, to site how "bad guns are". When the man's claim of self defense has STILL not yet been disproven in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt.

I wonder what age those "Chicago gang bangers" has their birthday party at the range? Probably never.

[Hoyt]

48. "Chicago Gang Bangers?" What right wing site did you get that from?

As to Zimmerman, screw him. He shot unarmed teenager. He may be a hero to Tbaggers, but not me.

[HALO141]

66. Answer: Never. n/t

[TPaine7]

14. Where's the problem?!

I see no incompatibility whatsoever between...

children’s parties for those as young as 8 to enjoy cake, ice cream and some shooting.

and a

law designed to target gang members carrying guns.

The pathetic thing is that a serious weapons offense for gang members had to be added in Chicago of all places:

The law, which was pushed by the Cook County State’s Attorney after a Chicago police officer was slain, adds a serious weapons offense to any other charge the suspect is facing from an incident.

Perhaps if they had moved past the "stern lecture" stage earlier, lives might have been saved. What morons!

But what is inherently incompatible between these approaches? Both sound great to me: young children being taught to respect and understand guns and to use them for legitimate purposes on the one hand and cracking down on gangsters carrying guns on the other hand.

As long as the instructors are competent and the gangsters are legitimately disqualified from carrying arms, I see no problem.

[4th law of robotics]

53. The article was about guns and Texas

that alone is enough to send some people in to apoplexy.

[-..__...]

15. Bravo for Texas...

Shitcago... too little to late.

The police, prosecutors and judges should have been bringing down the wrath of God on the heads of these swaggering, unremorseful shit-stains ages ago.

But nahhh... that was never a viable or politically correct option; let's infringe on the rights of honest, law abiding citizens instead... maybe that will solve the problem.

Yeah... right.

[DWC]

17. There is no such thing as a "toy" gun

I never allowed my children any toy weapons - including knives.

They were learning to not touch guns at the same time they were learning to not touch a hot stove.

As each showed sufficient maturity (between 6 and 8 years old) their education in the safe handling and use of firearms and other potentially dangerous tools like the hot stove began.

The process is one aspect of the adult function called parenting.

Semper Fi,

[BiggJawn]

25. I wonder how many of the 480 in Cook county were NOT Gangstas?

it may have been "...designed to target gang members carrying guns.", but I'll bet average folks just wanting to try and be safe in their home got caught up in this, too.

Chicago has a gang problem, and the sooner DINO Rahm pulls his head out of his ass and stops trying to bust the teacher's union and addresses said problem, the better.

[Whiskey_Dude]

39. Darned if you do, darned if you don't

I think one of the most ironic examples of anti gun hypocrisy is when the same people who complain about kids dying from accidental shootings, protest when people make an effort to TEACH kids about guns, that they are not toys, and how to use them properly. I don't know about you guys, but my grandfather (A Green Beret and Korean War Vet), taught me to shoot guns (9mm, 45's, 12 guages, AR-15's and a host of others) at the tender age of 10 years old.

The only thing I can say about that, is that I am forever grateful, because that teaching has kept me safe when around guns (which is inevitable if you live on planet earth) for the remainder of my life. Now, I personally shoot often, I enjoy every minute of it, it is a great hobby/sport, but more importantly, my sense of safety and security is much greater knowing I have the right to keep and bear arms.

Also, as one mentioned in this post, about the "debate over gun rights". There is no debate, it's written into the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Amendment 2. Nothing anyone says or does in this country can change that. So instead of passing more gun laws (that obviously accomplish nothing, if anything, are either a direct or indirect contributor to INCREASE gun violence), how about we admit that maybe the Brady Bunch is not right about everything, and try a different approach. That approach would be instead of trying to shield our children from something they will undoubtedly be faced with in American society (no matter what ridiculous "gun control" laws are passed), how about we educate them? Is that not even worth a try?

If you say that is not even worth trying, you can't honestly say you are looking at this situation objectively, because the pro gun side has given the anti gun side their turn to try and prove that tougher gun laws will reduce gun violence, and it has failed miserably. As I and many others knew it would.

[bongbong]

77. HILARIOUS!!!!

> kept me safe when around guns (which is inevitable if you live on planet earth)

Funny, my parents both lived on Earth to a ripe old age, never had a need for guns, never were threatened with guns, and never learned about them either. I'm sure my experience is shared by millions, if not billions, of other people.

Funny gun religionist!