NRA Kicks Off UN Arms Treaty Conference With Fearmongering

[SecularMotion]

Marking the start of July's month-long United Nations conference to negotiate a small arms treaty, National Rifle Association top lobbyist Chris Cox authored an op-ed for The Daily Caller making the hysterical -- and baseless -- claim that the treaty could "seriously restrict your freedom to own, purchase and carry a firearm." In fact the proposed treaty seeks to regulate the international trade of firearms - curtailing the illicit arms trade that keeps weapons flowing to human rights abusers -- and will not change ownership rules domestically.

Cox also made the reality-defying argument, citing conditions in the Sudan, that a treaty to restrict illegal small arms proliferation would harm citizens in countries ruled by human rights abusers. To the contrary, the United Nations has noted that "more human rights abuses are committed with small arms than with any other weapon."

But according to Cox's theory "the world's socialist, tyrannical and dictatorial regimes" will use the treaty to "implement international gun registration requirements, bans on commonly owned firearms, tracking and registration of ammunition purchases, and create a new U.N. gun control bureaucracy" thus fulfilling "President Barack Obama's vision for America."

This laughable conspiracy has no place in reality. Top officials from the United Nations, the United States, and other high profile supporters have repeatedly and clearly said that the treaty does not aim to restrict anyone's "freedom to own" a gun. Indeed, the U.N. General Assembly's resolution on the treaty makes clear that countries will "exclusively" maintain the right within their borders to "regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through national constitutional protections on private ownerships."

http://mediamatters.org/issues/guns

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Oooooh, they're a-comin' to take 'em away. Toldya so. Yup.

Paranioa is a wonderful tool.

[Politicalboi]

2. Can't we dissolve

The NRA as we know it, and start again. These assholes are just thugs who base things on what they feel not as how things are. They threaten lawmakers, they are a threat to ALL of us.

[spin]

5. How do you suggest doing that in a free nation? ...

Obviously if the NRA violates the law and become an actual danger to the nation, the organization could be dealt with much like the KKK.

Ku Klux Klan

***snip***

Jerry Thompson infiltration

Jerry Thompson, a newspaper reporter who infiltrated the KKK in 1979, reported that the FBI's COINTELPRO efforts were highly successful. Rival KKK factions accused each other's leaders of being FBI informants. Bill Wilkinson of the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was revealed to have been working for the FBI.[121]

Thompson, the journalist who claimed he had infiltrated the Klan, related that KKK leaders who appeared indifferent to the threat of arrest showed great concern about a series of civil lawsuits filed by the Southern Poverty Law Center for damages of millions of dollars. These were filed after KKK members shot into a group of African Americans. Klansmen curtailed activities to conserve money for defense against the lawsuits. The KKK also used lawsuits as tools; they filed a libel suit to prevent publication of a paperback edition of Thompson's book.

Tennessee shooting

In 1980, three KKK members shot four elderly black women (Viola Ellison, Lela Evans, Opal Jackson and Katherine Johnson) in Chattanooga, Tennessee, following a KKK initiation rally. A fifth woman, Fannie Crumsey, was injured by flying glass in the incident. Attempted murder charges were filed against the three KKK members, two of whom—Bill Church and Larry Payne—were acquitted by an all-white jury, and the other of whom—Marshall Thrash—was sentenced by the same jury to nine months on lesser charges. He was released after three months.[122][123][124] In 1982, a jury awarded the five women $535,000 in a civil rights trial.[125]

Michael Donald lynching

After Michael Donald was lynched in 1981 in Alabama, the FBI investigated his death and two local KKK members were convicted of having a role, including Henry Francis Hays, who was sentenced to death. With the support of attorneys Morris Dees and Joseph J. Levin of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), Donald's mother, Beulah Mae Donald, sued the KKK in civil court in Alabama. Her lawsuit against the United Klans of America was tried in February 1987. The all-white jury found the Klan responsible for the lynching of Donald and ordered the Klan to pay US$7 million. To pay the judgment, the KKK turned over all of its assets, including its national headquarters building in Tuscaloosa. After exhausting the appeals process, Hays was executed for Donald's death in Alabama on June 6, 1997. It was the first time since 1913 that a white man had been executed in Alabama for for a crime against an African American.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#Current_developments

However the KKK still exists although its importance and power is greatly diminished.

Obviously the NRA could be squashed if someone took over our government and turned in into a dictatorship. In fact the NRA and all gun owners would be a prime target for such an individual. Usually tyrants limit the civilian ownership of firearms to the military, the police and certain privileged individuals. It is quite possible that a future American dictator would finally accomplish the goals of many who oppose firearms and would ban them.

Of course any attempt by an individual to establish a dictatorship in our nation would lead to a well armed uprising. If the dictator had the support of his military and the police, he might win.

At any rate while the NRA would become extinct under the powerful rule of a successful dictator, life in our nation would be far different. I would personally prefer to live in a nation with the freedom of speech and also the right of civilians to own firearms for hunting, target shooting and self defense. I may disagree with the views of many organizations in our nation but I defend their right to have their opinions as foolish as they may be. This is an excellent day to point out that on July 4th 1776 we declared independence from dictatorial Kingdom and Great Britain. Eventually we ended up with our form of representative democracy which while it has problems it has also served as a beacon to many in the world who wish for freedom.

I might point out that Obama agrees with me on civilian gun ownership (although I am sure he personally dislikes the NRA).

President Obama: We must seek agreement on gun reforms
March 13, 2011 12:00 am • President Barack Obama Special To The Arizona Daily Star

***snip***

Now, like the majority of Americans, I believe that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to bear arms. And the courts have settled that as the law of the land. In this country, we have a strong tradition of gun ownership that's handed from generation to generation. Hunting and shooting are part of our national heritage. And, in fact, my administration has not curtailed the rights of gun owners - it has expanded them, including allowing people to carry their guns in national parks and wildlife refuges.

The fact is, almost all gun owners in America are highly responsible. They're our friends and neighbors. They buy their guns legally and use them safely, whether for hunting or target shooting, collection or protection. And that's something that gun-safety advocates need to accept. Likewise, advocates for gun owners should accept the awful reality that gun violence affects Americans everywhere, whether on the streets of Chicago or at a supermarket in Tucson.

I know that every time we try to talk about guns, it can reinforce stark divides. People shout at one another, which makes it impossible to listen. We mire ourselves in stalemate, which makes it impossible to get to where we need to go as a country.
http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/mailbag/president-obama-we-must-seek-agreement-on-gun-reforms/article_011e7118-8951-5206-a878-39bfbc9dc89d.html

[Hoyt]

29. I agree - KKK and NRA are quite similar.

[spin]

31. Don't forget that the NRA helped the civil rights leader, Robert F. Williams ...

to fight the KKK.

Robert F. Williams

Robert Franklin Williams (February 26, 1925 – October 15, 1996) was a civil rights leader, the president of the Monroe, North Carolina NAACP chapter in the 1950s and early 1960s, and author. At a time when racial tension was high and official abuses were rampant, Williams was a key figure in promoting armed black self-defense in the United States. He and his wife left the United States in 1961 to avoid prosecution for kidnapping. A self-professed Black Nationalist and supporter of liberation, he lived in both Cuba and communist China in exile.

Williams' book Negroes with Guns (1962), published while he was in exile in Cuba, details his experience with violent racism and his disagreement with the pacifist Civil Rights Movement philosophies. Among others the book influenced Huey Newton, who founded the Black Panthers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Williams

Robert Franklin Williams was born in Monroe, North Carolina
in 1925. As a young man he worked for the Ford Motor
Company in Detroit until he was drafted into the United
States Army in 1944—where he learned to take up arms.

After the war Williams returned to Monroe and married
Mabel Robinson, a young woman who shared his commitment
to social justice and African American freedom. In
response to the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision,
Klan activity in Monroe skyrocketed, intimidating
African Americans and nearly shutting down the local
chapter of the NAACP. Williams revived it to nearly 200
strong by reaching out to everyday laborers and to fellow
black veterans.

When assaults on local black women were ignored by the
law, Williams filed for a charter from the NRA; the Black
Armed Guard was born. During a 1957 integration campaign
that faced violent white resistance, Williams’ armed
defense guard successfully drove off legions of the Klan.
His acceptance of armed resistance placed Williams at the
center of a debate among advocates for civil rights: follow
the non-violent principles that came to be identified
with Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., or protect black communities
with force when necessary.emphasis added
http://newsreel.org/guides/negroes_discussion.pdf

[permatex]

33. Awwww.

You know you just screwed up a classical Hoyt screed don'tca?

[Hoyt]

35. Nope. There is plenty of vile crud that worthless bunch supports/enables.

[permatex]

36. C'mon, man up

you get your ass handed to you almost all the time you post here. Although sometimes you do have a salient point.
I'm no fan of the NRA but, they do some good with their Eddie Eagle program and they do support LE and shooting sports.

[Hoyt]

37. McVeigh, jw booth, rush Limbaugh, gw bush probably did some good once.

Last edited Fri Jul 6, 2012, 08:29 AM - Edit history (1)

They still are worthless.

[permatex]

38. Difference is that the non political side of the NRA still does good

with their Eddie Eagle safety program and they still provide firearm training to LE across the country. it's their political side thats gone hard right with their RW whackos.

[Hoyt]

39. Both sides are connected. That is total BS. You don't really think PAC acts totally

separately from the "regular" NRA, except on paper?

[permatex]

40. Prove it

you made the claim, now prove it, or is this just another "feeling" of yours?

[Hoyt]

41. Look at boards, and get an education on the "mother" organizations and their PACs.

[permatex]

42. No proof so far

didn't think so, but thanks for playing.

[Hoyt]

43. Your support for an organization bent on defeating Obama is appreciated in some circles.

[permatex]

44. Why don't you just show us one post where I supported the NRA?

Just one m'kay?
Your constant misrepresentation of what we say is fine with me because it gives everyone a chance to see what you really are.

Still dodging the question but what else can you do when you have no proof as to your earlier assertion.

[permatex]

45. What's hilarious is that you think your scoring points

when in reality, everytime you post, you get your butt handed to you and you don't even know it but everyone else knows it.

So just keep on posting, we need the comedy gold here.

[Hoyt]

34. Kind of like the Republican party helped pass civil rights. That was 50+

years ago. Not the same thing. Today's NRA would probably support Zimmerman, James e. ray and have worthless souls like Grover Norquist and teddy Nugent on their board.

[spin]

46. If that was true than why did the NRA push for "shall issue" concealed carry? ...

"May issue" concealed carry would have made far more sense if the NRA was opposed to minorities owning firearms as the white local authorities in many areas of our nation could have discriminated and denied the privilege of carrying a firearm to those who they didn't like and who were not white.

In fact the NRA is trying to get the remaining "may issue" laws in some states to change to "shall issue".

Interestingly Otis McDonald, one of the plaintiffs in the famous recent Supreme Court case involving gun control, is Black. The NRA was on the side of the plaintiffs. This case doesn't involve concealed carry but the favorable ruling by the Supreme Court will eventually lead to many minorities citizens in Chicago having the ability to use a handgun for home defense.

On Otis McDonald and his lawsuit challenging Chicago's 1982 handgun ban

Otis McDonald sued for the right to own a handgun in Chicago, and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor on June 28. Read his story, from our archives
By Jennifer Tanaka


Meet the plaintiffs: These four Chicago residents (from left), Adam Orlov, David and Colleen Lawson, and Otis McDonald, have sued to repeal the city’s ban on handgun possession. Their case will be heard by the Supreme Court in February.

When Otis McDonald bought his house in Morgan Park in 1971, the purchase represented a generational milestone of sorts: One of 12 children born to Louisiana sharecroppers, McDonald left the farm at 17 to find work in the big city, and, after struggling for many years in low-paying seasonal jobs, was hired as a janitor by the University of Chicago in the early sixties. He eventually earned a coveted skilled union position as a building-maintenance engineer, a job he kept until he retired.

Today McDonald, a bright-eyed and trim 76-year-old grandfather, considers himself one of few defenders of peace and security on the leafy, house-lined street where three of his children grew up and played. The gangbangers and drug dealers have taken over, he says. “You go out there in the morning and pick up bottles and things on the lawn,” he explains, describing events of the past summer. “They’re out there at three in the morning, in the middle of the street, drinking and smoking their stuff. They throw stuff all over your lawn, and you can’t say anything, because they might up and shoot you.” McDonald says his house has been broken into three times and his garage twice—most recently, early one morning this past August by a man McDonald recognized from around the neighborhood. Does McDonald think the robber planned to sell the stolen possessions for drugs? “Of course, of course,” he says matter-of-factly.

Otis McDonald wants a handgun—a pistol to carry around the house and keep on his bedside table at night. An avid hunter, he has two shotguns in the house, but he says those weapons are too unwieldy to use when facing a midnight intruder. More to the point, McDonald believes that if Chicago residents were allowed to keep handguns in their homes, criminals would think twice before breaking in—a fairly common rationale among gun-rights supporters. McDonald, however, is no ordinary gun-rights supporter: In 2008, he joined three other residents in a lawsuit to get rid of the city’s handgun ban, the most restrictive gun law in the country and probably the most far-reaching because of Chicago’s size.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2010/In-Their-Sights-Lawsuit-challenging-Chicagos-1982-handgun-ban-to-be-heard-by-Supreme-Court/

[Hoyt]

48. To sell more friggin guns, of course. Do you seriously deny that NRA is not a right wing group?

out to beat Obama, and promote right wing causes?

[spin]

51. I will agree that the NRA does appear to have an irrational dislike of Obama ...

considering his pro-gun rights record as President.

I will also admit that the NRA promotes gun rights which is only logical as they are a one issue organization.

Unfortunately since some liberals oppose gun rights they see the NRA as a wing of the Republican Party while totally ignoring the fact that many other liberal Democrats actually support gun rights. It is my opinion that pushing for draconian gun control laws has proved to be a ball and chain around the ankle for the Democratic Party and if we had not pushed for such laws, we all would live in a far better nation today. Many close elections have been lost over this issue and the results have proved disastrous.

I might be wrong but I don't believe that the NRA has much if anything to say about many other issues such as gay rights, abortion or "ObamaCare".

In fact the NRA often takes criticism because it is not more conservative. As just one example I will post a link to a conservative site which criticizes the NRA in an article named How the NRA Helped ObamaCare to support my argument. It is your choice if you wish to view it.

http://www.redstate.com/briansikma/2012/06/28/how-the-nra-helped-obamacare/

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Cut off their damn funding.

No $$$, No NRA.

Works every time.

[spin]

7. Unfortunately the NRA has 4.5 million loyal members ...

and many contribute to the NRA's political wing the NRA-ILA. The NRA receives no public funding and depends on membership fees and donations to finance its operation.

For some reason I feel you might have a hard time convincing NRA members to not donate to the NRA. Good luck.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. "Unfortunately the NRA has 4.5 million loyal members..".

At least we agree on something.

[spin]

10. The amazing thing is that they do have not far more members ...

Last edited Wed Jul 4, 2012, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

as an estimated "3 in 10 Americans personally own a firearm" and "4 in 10 Americans report they have a gun in their homes, including 30% who say they personally own a gun and 12% who say another member of their household owns it." (source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/gun-ownership-use-america.aspx)

That means that there are possibly 80 million firearm owners in the United States. If the NRA is powerful with only 4.5 million members just imagine how powerful that might be if 40 million or 50% of the gun owners decided to join their ranks. It is obvious that the recruiting efforts of the NRA enjoy only marginal success.

[mvccd1000]

15. That's because of people like me.

I'm a gun owner and encourage others to become the same (by taking novices shooting, or allowing people like my sister-in-law to "take possession" of one of my guns when she decides she needs it more than I do).

I've never been a member of the NRA, however, and given the ridiculous slant of most of the emails I see posted here (luckily I've never found my way onto one of their mailing lists) there's no way I would ever give them a dime.

Grass roots groups like the SAF or AZCDL do far more with far less, and don't seem to engage in the petty, slanted politics of the NRA. I'll stick with the good guys.

(Plus the NRA seems to be anti-open carry and anti-constitutional carry, and even started off anti-Heller. What IS the infatuation with status-quo concealed carry on the NRA's part?)

[spin]

16. The reason that I pay yearly dues to the NRA has nothing to do with politics ...

but to support the organization's efforts to help the shooting sports. Mainly I support their firearm safety training programs for youth, hunters, civilians, women, law enforcement and the military. Firearms are extremely dangerous in untrained hands and I feel safety courses are essential. The NRA is not the only place to find a firearms instructor but it is possibly the best. I have been friends with several NRA certified instructors and in fact my half brother was one.

I also have never enjoyed competitive shooting but it can be a great hobby and the NRA does a good job supporting shooting events and often provides assistance for safe range design.

The NRA also supports hunting sports and while I am not a hunter, I believe that hunters serve a available purpose in game management. Of course many people disagree.

You can view these programs at http://www.nra.org/programs.aspx

I may be wrong but I don't believe that either the SAF or AZCDL offers shooters as many programs.

The NRA does often give Democrats high ratings on the issue of gun rights and sometimes endorses a Democrat over a Republican. However In recent years the NRA has seemed to show a more conservative bias. This might be the result of losing members to the more radical pro-gun organizations such as the GOA. If so, this is unfortunate as while the NRA is a one issue organization they should not unfairly favor one party over the other but instead promote and support any politician who is for Second Amendment rights. Of course gun rights should be the only political issue that the organization should concern itself with.

I'm not sure why the NRA appears to be opposed to open carry. I personally fear that open carry in states like Florida might be a poor idea as in urban areas or areas with a considerable number of tourists it can scare or intimidate those who have little experience with honest individuals who responsibly carry firearms. In more rural or remote states, open carry might present few problems. I feel that this issue is best left up to the individual states.

[GreenStormCloud]

17. How do you propose to do that and still be a free country? N/T

[TheCowsCameHome]

19. You can't be serious.

But alas, it looks like they got you right where they want you.

[GreenStormCloud]

21. Answer the question. How do you propose to cut off their funding?

Don't forget about 1A in your answer.

Answering with an insult, as you did in your post #19 is not a real answer. It just shows that you have nothing.

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. Don't join or pay dues. i.e., walk away.

No members, no dues, no organization.

[GreenStormCloud]

24. LOL.

The NRA is powerful because millions of Americans have the opposite political view of guns that you do. What do you plan to do about them?

[TheCowsCameHome]

26. Actually, nothing...

....Except laugh at guys like you that worship the ground the NRA walks on.

[spin]

47. That may be fun to you but will do nothing to accomplish what you suggested. (n/t)

[TheCowsCameHome]

49. Yes it will

They'll never see a dime of my money.

[spin]

50. Since the NRA only has 4.5 million members out of of possibly 80 million gun owners ...

you are not unusual.

You can be thankful that the NRA has been a miserable failure in its efforts to increase membership. Just imagine how powerful the organization would be if it had 20 or 40 million members.

[permatex]

25. Kinda like the Brady org. or the VPC?

Those two org. are on life support while NRA, SAF, GOA are thriving, why is that? Is it because support for more gun laws are at an all time low? Hmmm, could be.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. Just love that old NRA, eh?

Good boy. That's what Wayne and Chris like to hear.

[permatex]

28. I've noticed that you like to say things about other people that are, well let's just say, not true.

Perhaps you can show me where I showed support for the NRA?
Oh I get it, in your mind, by pointing out the truth about the Brady and VPC org. lack of membership, money, clout, that means that I'm supporting the NRA.

Oh man, I'm glad you let me know who I now support.
Whatever would I do without your wisdom and all knowing knowledge?

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. OK, so you don't support the NRA. Glad to hear it.

Good boy. Wayne and Chris won't be pleased, but who cares what they think?

[permatex]

32. I haven't belonged or supported them since they went hard right

just because I am strong pro gun rights doesn't translate into support for the NRA. I think that Wayne and Chris are RW wackos and until the NRA moderates their view, they can kiss my ass.

[NewMoonTherian]

3. I hope the author is right on this one. n/t

[aikoaiko]

4. Preventing legit export and import of arms and ammunition is a problem

And the last time I looked at these UN efforts they appeared to interfere with that.

But in fairness, I haven't looked closely at the latest iteration.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. The NRA is just another NGO

Like most NGOs, its popular with some, not so much with others

[permatex]

11. Correct me if I'm wrong

but as I understand it, U.N. treaties cannot override the Constitutuon, and, doesn't congress have to ratify any treaty?
Can you see this treaty getting through the congress if it infringes on the 2A? Nope, not in this or any other lifetime.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. 2/3 of the Senate has to approve the treaty.

A treaty the in any way limited Americans 2A rights would be dead on arrival in the Senate.

[permatex]

23. Thank you

thats what I thought. I can't even imagine the Senate going for anything like this. It would be 1994 all over again if the Senate ratified it.

[DonP]

12. I could swear we were told the NRA has no political power?

Didn't we have a series of posts (by a poster who doesn't spend much time here anymore thankfully) cutting, pasting a series of articles from HuffPo (?) or some similar other source about how the NRA has no real political clout?

Several of our resident gun prohibitionists showed up to vigorously support the idea that the NRA's political day is done and they have no real leverage to impact congressional votes or electoral politics?

And here we are again being told that the evil NRA is up to it's old tricks again and is more powerful than ever.

I wish you gun control/gun ban people could make up your mind.

But ... maybe that's why you have such a dismal record for getting anything done legislatively.

[ileus]

13. F the UN and the NRA

[SaveAmerica]

14. Thankful for DU to help me with the truth

I woke up to a frantic FB post from the most conservative person on my feed (see below) and came here to look for the truth to correct her. Thanks for this info, I'll take the key words to seek out a neutral source to share with her.


OBAMA HAS DONE RATICAL THINGS BEFORE, NO DOUBT HERE HE WILL DO THEM AGAIN! VERY IMPORTANT!! HEADS-UP, PATRIOTS!! US Will Sign Gun Control Treaty on July 27, 2012!! Without any national debate -- and after secret negotiations -- Obama is going to sign the Arms Trade Treaty which will lead to UN imposed gun control. View this clip, take appropriate action as instructed by Dick Morris, and hit that "SHARE" on this posting to inform fellow Americans.woke

[GreenStormCloud]

20. The Arms Trade Treaty is going nowhere.

Right now negotiations are bogged down in the Palestinian issue. They want a seat at the table and the U.S. wants to limit it to national governments only.

Regardless of that issue, many of the governments are brutal dictatorships that will merely use the treaty as diplomatic cover while continuing business as usual. Governments and movements that want guns and have to money for them will always find sellers and supporters. Watch The Lords of War, not only a good movie, but it is based on facts. Whatever comes out of the negotiations will be just a piece of paper that accomplishes nothing.

The NRA hype shows that there is already more opposition to the treaty than support for it. Obama will likely be very cautious about what he signs, knowing that it can be used against him. Don't expect any bold moves from him on this as the risks are far greater than the potential gains.