Customer at Internet cafe shoots 2 robbers (Video)

[virginia mountainman]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=428_1342491285

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Internet-cafe-patron-shoots-robbery-suspects/-/475880/15570742/-/irc1tyz/-/index.html

Sheriff's officials said they got a call at 9:54 p.m. about an armed robbery at Palms Internet Cafe, 8444 SW State Road 200. When deputies arrived at the scene, patrons outside the business told them that two men in masks — one armed with a baseball bat and the other with a handgun — had barged into the business. The robbers told the approximately 30 patrons to get on the floor, and they demanded money.

Officials said one of the patrons, Samuel Williams, drew his own handgun and shot at the robbers, according to sheriff's officials.

Both robbers began running toward the front door, and the patron fired several more shots as they fled.

..............

Ruth and Neville Allison, also patrons of the Internet cafe, said they saw the incident unfold.

They said the robbers — one with a gun and the other with what looked like a bat wrapped in white tape — entered from the parking lot.

The robber with the bat smashed one of the computers, the couple said. Then the robbers ordered everybody to get down on the ground and take out their wallets and whatever valuables they had.

Williams — who declined to be interviewed — was sitting in the row nearest the door. He immediately took out his handgun, took aim and started firing, witnesses said.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790/0/sports

The Internet cafe patron who shot and injured two men as they tried to rob the business will likely not face any criminal charges.


Shooting at Palms Internet Cafe
“Based on what I have seen and what I know at this time, I don’t anticipate filing any charges,” said Bill Gladson of the State Attorney’s Office

Thoughts?

[permatex]

1. Looks like a justified shooting to me

and, apparently, the DA thinks the same thing.
Bottom line, don't want to get shot committing crimes? Don't commit crimes. Seems pretty simple to me.
Thanks for posting this video.

[Kablooie]

54. And specially don't commit crimes while brandishing a gun.

[permatex]

55. [phone]

[DonP]

2. Did you edit that video?

I missed the part where the citizen acted like a cowboy, shot several innocent bystanders, then had the gun taken away from him by the criminal and was shot with his own gun, and/or was shot by the police when they responded.

I've been assured that always happens

You must have edited that, right?

[permatex]

3. Come to think of it

I missed that part also, damn, it had to have been edited, because we all know that concealed carry doesn't save lives as has been told to us time and time again.

[Starboard Tack]

17. Maybe you'd like to share with us where someone "assured" you that would happen.

We'll be waiting.

[PavePusher]

19. Google search: Hoyt, cowboy n/t

[Starboard Tack]

22. Feel free, but do your own search, then you can show us the results.

[Clames]

23. You asked, you search.

www.google.com

[PavePusher]

26. Here you go, have fun.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Hoyt%2C+cowboy%2C+Democratic+Underground&oq=Hoyt%2C+cowboy%2C+Democratic+Underground&gs_l=hp.3...14414.20358.2.22495.24.24.0.0.0.0.281.4710.0j14j10.24.0...0.0...1c.RI991_HEUiE&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=390fce252f4a34d5&biw=1280&bih=869

[Starboard Tack]

37. I already did and no links to support DonP's post

"
I missed the part where the citizen acted like a cowboy, shot several innocent bystanders, then had the gun taken away from him by the criminal and was shot with his own gun, and/or was shot by the police when they responded.

I've been assured that always happens

You picked up the ball. Now, would you care to show us all a link that backs it up?

[permatex]

40. Quit being obtuse

I've only been here a short time and even I know he's said shit like that. You've seen him accuse many of us here of saying and believing things which are totally untrue and when asked to provide proof or links to his claims, he accuses us some more instead of providing the proof.
You know this and yet you refuse to believe it. Here's one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117250652#post77
Oh look, here's another one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117250652#post127
And of course, this little gem I found where he encourages the detaining of legal CCP'ers until police arrive to "check their papers"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=471849#471995
There you go, and it took me all of 1 minute to find these little gems.

[Starboard Tack]

63. None of them come close to DONP's claim

Let me remind you once again what you are supposed to be supporting

"I missed the part where the citizen acted like a cowboy, shot several innocent bystanders, then had the gun taken away from him by the criminal and was shot with his own gun, and/or was shot by the police when they responded.

I've been assured that always happens

Was it just the word cowboy? Or was there something else you think you heard Hoyt say?

[permatex]

66. I stand by my words

He's said it before. Notice you didn't say anything about his encouraging the violation of civil rights of concealed carriers. Instead, you just sloughed off his constant lies and insults but go after those of us who do carry.
I am a free thinker just as much as you are.
I provided links to some of the crap he has posted, you find the rest if you want to, its out there.

[Starboard Tack]

67. You provided links to some of his posts.

None of those posts comes close to the claim made by DonP
Show me where Hoyt says anything to substantiate the following. It is customary to back up claims.

"I missed the part where the citizen acted like a cowboy, shot several innocent bystanders, then had the gun taken away from him by the criminal and was shot with his own gun, and/or was shot by the police when they responded.

I've been assured that always happens"

I'm not sloughing off anything, nor am I taking a side here. I'm pointing out a claim which has no substance. You continue to back that claim by pointing out other, totally irrelevant posts. By doing so, you just become part of the rabble and lose credibility. The irony is that you are now presenting yourself as another parrot of the "over my dead body" crowd of carriers.
BTW, civil rights don't require permits.

[permatex]

70. I've posted the links

despite what you say. The comments by him are there, I've seen them.
Think what you want, but I've never seen you chastise him for his wild accusations, just us.
I don't parrot anyone, I am my self whether you want to aknowledge it or not.
BTW, you still dodged the question about his encouraging violation of civil rights, and I'm not talking about a permit, I'm talking about being illegally physically detained as he has said should happen to carriers.

[Starboard Tack]

73. No, you haven't shown one link that supports what you claim.

I decide whom to chastise. I agree with him on some things and disagree on others.
I don't take issue with people being detained for carrying guns in public, as long as it is legal and not abusive by the police. The police run traffic stops and sobriety checks all the time. Why not gun checks. Nobody has any business wandering around with a loaded firearm, unless they have a damn good reason beyond "It's my right".
You have the right to carry your gun. You do not have the right not to be questioned, laughed at, mocked, ridiculed or derided for behaving in such a way. 2A does not trump 1A or any other part of the constitution.
For most of us, public safety comes before personal fear.

Now, show me one post where he encourages detaining people illegally. Enough with the smoke and mirrors.

[gejohnston]

77. He encourages illegally detaining people here.

Further, every citizen should report anyone carrying a gun in public -- Maybe even hold them until police arrive. You just never know when the gunner is a criminal, has bad intentions, or just walked off their compound with a plan to harm innocent people.

If the "toter" is committing no crime, that is unlawful detention.
comment 32
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=471849#471995

[Starboard Tack]

79. Thank you! Finally an actual quote.

And I strongly disagree with his suggestion to "Maybe even hold them until police arrive."

I am aware that he makes some OTT comments at times, but nothing close to DonP's claim, which for some reason, others are trying to back up, while DonP himself seems to have skedaddled. The old "hit and run" scenario.

Back to your quote from Hoyt, it is not illegal to report people you think might be up to no good. Detaining them would be foolish and wrong without authority.

[permatex]

84. WTF

I posted that same quote and you pretty much blew it off. Why didn't you respond to me in the same manner?

[Starboard Tack]

92. You posted a link, not a quote. Nothing personal.

Sorry if I don't read every link. If you want to back something up, you need to cite what was said. A bunch of links doesn't cut it sorry. I'm not trying to be petty, but that's usually the way we do it. I actually have a life and don't want to spend time plowing through links to find a quote that could have been highlighted.

[permatex]

86. Oh look

here's another cowboy reference
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117245202#post9
And another one about cowboyshttp://www.democraticunderground.com/117245202#post40
Well, whadda know, another one
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117245202#post40
And here is one more
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117245202#post86
How about this one
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x435837#435919
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x356327#357527
I could go on and on and on........................
But you get the picture.

[Atypical Liberal]

82. "But I didn't saaaaay THAT!"

There was another poster here some for quite some time who was big on saying shit and then when called on it exclaiming, in so many words, "Oh, I didn't say THAT!

I'm not playing that game again.

[Starboard Tack]

83. Did you think this was about you? LOL

I don't think we want to go back and look at some of your posts, do we? Let me know if you do. I'll be glad to supply links to some of your most outrageous statements.

[Atypical Liberal]

94. No it was about Iverglas.

She would constantly say things that clearly insinuated something and then when you called her on it she would claim otherwise.

[permatex]

85. Are you blind

I provided the link, you obviously didn't click on it.
Yeah, you do chatise people but its usually the pro gun people.

[gejohnston]

71. and then there is his

OK to machine gun dogs and fleeing kids.

[Starboard Tack]

76. WTF? Are you joining in this attack too?

I'm not here to defend Hoyt or anyone else, but a little honesty and respect would be nice.

[gejohnston]

78. I am being honest

and yes, I have a serious problem with cops having machine guns and using them on dogs and children. Hoyt said it was OK for the DUSM to machine gun Sam Weaver in the back. At no point did he denounce the act. Instead he deflected the way Randy answered Fienstien's pointless and irrelevant questions. At one point he did say that what amounted to "he deserved it because his parents homeschooled him".

[Starboard Tack]

80. I'm not saying you are being dishonest.

You know well that I respect you even if we disagree on some things. However, if attacks are made about other members, they should be backed up with relevant links and quotes, not editorialized opinion pieces.
I really dislike the unsubstantiated smearing that goes on around here.

[Clames]

43. You didn't try very hard.

One of the first results:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117216229#post7

It seems even back then it was a common theme with Hoyt. There are plenty more too.

[Starboard Tack]

38. Try googling "PavePusher cowboy"

Only 23,500 returns

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=PavePusher+cowboy&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search!&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[permatex]

41. Conveniently left out the part where the majority

of those posts are mocking Hoyt for his references to "cowboys, strap on a gun or two, shove a gun or two down your pants, practice your quick draw in front of a mirror and then go out in public to play cowboy".

[Starboard Tack]

64. No, just showing Google comes up with a shitload of returns.

Nothing close to anything claimed by our friend DonP. Hoyt's prose is rich at times, but nothing like the "blood in the streets" inferred by DonP, PavePusher and now you, who have apparently decided to link up with some of our more vociferous advocates of carrying concealed guns upon their person. Way to go there. Thought for a moment you might be a free thinker. Oh well.

[permatex]

65. Back atcha

I thought the same thing also.

[DonP]

27. Yeah, no gun grabbers ever say things like that down here :sarcasm:

I just made it up out of whole cloth.

Losing miserably for a decade on every front really seems to make you gun control people frustrated and cranky?

I'm just trying to decide if you are just "playing dumb" and working on being condescending and supercilious? Or if you are actually living the part?

[Starboard Tack]

36. So, no links. Thought so. Empty barrels and all that!

[DonP]

39. You're comments are not worth the time to do the research ...

... based on the majority of your comments, pretending to be a middle of the road on the issues, but always coming down on the side of more government control, everyone knows where you stand.

But every honest person here has heard exactly those words used again and again, mainly by the same 4 or 5 losers.

But in the future I'm sure we'll all be happy to call your attention to every single asinine comment that comes out of the electronic mouth of the inane gun grabbers that inhabit these regions.

Oh, and barrels aren't full or empty, that's the chamber you are trying to use as a poorly phrased metaphor.

[permatex]

42. I just posted 3 examples

only took me all of 1 minute, wonder why he can't seem to find them?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. we know what he is trying to do - he is trying to goad someone into making an Alertable post. n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

56. Exactly.

[Tejas]

81. I missed the part where the perp "assured" everyone the gun would not fire.

[Tejas]

4. * "Am I understanding a white guy shot two black guys? Guess that means no charges, and

Florida gun stores will be full of white guys arming up."


*Above is obviously sarcasm, just saving a certain racist the trouble of posting the race card.

[slackmaster]

5. Good shooting on the part of the shooter.

He did not hesitate. He took an aggressive stance, pursued, aimed his weapon, and fired until the threat was ended.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Good thing for the robber that the customer was using a .380.

I he had been armed with a .45 JHPs, a shot into each side of the butt would have left the guy in a wheelchair the rest of his life, or dead.

[DonP]

7. It looked like a compact .380

Maybe a Bersa or similar? A little too big for a KelTec P3 or Ruger LCP.

But they always say; better a .380/.32/.22 in your pocket than a .45 in the drawer at home.

[virginia mountainman]

11. I carry a Glock 36...it's the .45 in my pocket...

A very compact .45 that I can hide behind my very average sized wallet...

Here is a photo of one, not mine, showing how small it is.



If I must use a gun, It MUST be of effective caliber, IMHO a .380 is a "experts" weapon. I like a "margin for error" so to speak.

I am able to pocket carry a Glock 36 in my right front pocket, right beind my wallet and smart phone. In my left front pocket I carry my car keys, and two spare magazines. I can carry it all day long, without trouble.I can even carry it in my "summer" Khaki Shorts with a tucked in T-Shirt and no one has any idea that I am well armed, with a relativity powerful handgun. Causes no problems getting in and out of cars, nor are restaurant booths an issue.

Best of all, no one in the room, restaurant, street, store, park, car, beach, trail, or any other location where it is legal to be carried, only close friends, and family know about it.


EDIT, I can even carry it that way in a suit, or blue jeans, or even in a pinch, knit shorts, sweat pants or sweat shorts for that quick run out to the store for something needed in hurry.

[ileus]

15. I looked at an XDS a few weeks ago....

didn't have a 36 to compare it to, but the XDS was a nice looking and feeling firearm. I have a friend that has a 36 for his EDC but I've never got to shoot it.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. Interesting photo and information.

Although I have not favored conceal carry prior to seeing the posted video in the OP, I agree with your assessment regarding a .45 versus a .380. I'm now in the market for a concealable .45 and have a S&W 625 JM for home defense. It never jams, but it is something that is obviously too big for conceal carry.

While looking for more information regarding the Glock 36 that you mention, I ran across a web site. You might want to check it out. From the video that he posted regarding a problem with the Glock 36 that he now considers to be a relatively common problem that other Glock 36 owners have had, it's clear that he is an experienced shooter and he has a proper grip on his Glock 36 when firing it. He has information which you might want to be aware of.
http://g36mf.blogspot.com/

[Clames]

32. .380 ACP is a perfectly good caliber for self-defense.

And with the resurgence of light weight CCW pistols tailored for the round there has been renewed interest in developing self-defense loads for it. Stopping power is a myth. Large bore or small bore the only metric that counts is shot placement. That is what determines how effective a particular type of round will be.

[sarisataka]

34. It is like real estate

location, location, location.

A miss by a .45 is as good as a miss by a .22. A hit will, obviously, have different results.

[Clames]

44. A hit by a .45 on somebody under the influence of drugs...

....would have different results on a slim-build person who is stone sober. I've seen incidences where a person took rifle fire and should have died on the spot but managed to keep going through sheer force of will. Another dies from a single small caliber pistol shot like somebody turned out the lights. Too many variables to make generalizations with respect to caliber.

[sarisataka]

48. Agreed

each person is unique and even different day to day.

I am happy with .38 these days and always practice failure to stop drill.

[oneshooter]

88. Unless the hit was on a major structure in the body

such as a head or spine fit.

[Clames]

91. Not always.

Some people just keep going. Even if you fired a shot that destroyed the heart there is still enough oxygen in the blood to keep the attacker going for several minutes. That is an eternity in such a situation.

[oneshooter]

93. If you hit a major STRUCTURE member with a properly sized

projectile, the target is going to stop. This means head, spine, pr femur.

[Clames]

95. You hope it does.

Sniper's are trained to aim for a "T" that covers the eyes and center of the face. A shot in that zone will instantly sever the brain and essentially "turn out the lights" on an attacker. Not an easy zone to hit and doesn't work as well with popular pistol calibers. If you hit the spine you might paralyze the attacker but it is seldom instant (a recent video was posted here where a robber was shot in the lower spine and was still able to scramble away before paralysis set in) and the femur is a tough bone even against .45 ACP.

[Kablooie]

52. Well I always carry a 5" Neon Squirt Gun

Not as powerful as your Glock but formidable if you fill it with really stinky water.

[GreenStormCloud]

90. Some street thugs never bathe.

For them your stinky water would be an improvement.

[PavePusher]

8. The Citizen should probably refine his aiming technique a bit....

but over-all, very well done. He made sure he had clear lanes of fire, hit moving targets 3 times (looks like 5 or 6 shots fired, hard to tell for sure from the silent video), for a hit rate of approx. 50%.

Well done, Citizen!

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Hell of a lot better than the Seattle PD on hit ratio, that's for sure.

[sarisataka]

10. Nineteen seconds

from robbers come in to last shot fired. These things happen very fast.

My main criticism would be the last shot fired out the door could be seen as excessive by an overzealous prosecutor. OTH if the robber appeared to be turning to fire a shot, remember nobody could tell the gun didn't work, it would be entirely justified.

[virginia mountainman]

12. It would depend..

Was the suspect STILL ARMED????? If so, he was still a lethal threat, even running away, he could turn and shoot at any time.

Running away is not "surrender" the threat for things to go really bad is still their. Running OUTSIDE the building and continuing to fire could have been considered excessive.

Like you pointed out, it all happened in 19 seconds.

[sarisataka]

13. It would be difficultto prove

the shot was reckless. I just envision a DA with a serious anti-gun agenda giving it a try.

Like you point out, they are still armed and have shown that they are violent. That in itself could justify attempting to stop them while fleeing.

[GreenStormCloud]

14. Central Florida, in July, and they are wearing hoodies.

I was assured by another anti-gun poster that people don't wear hoodies in hot weather.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. Hey, what's my dad doin' in Florida literally bustin' caps in asses?

Score one for the good guys.

[Starboard Tack]

18. Is that the level you're at? Really? "Score one for the good guys."

Last edited Tue Jul 17, 2012, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

You think shooting people is a game with "good guys" and "bad guys"? You think it's about keeping score?
Do your parents know you're hanging out on the internet? Oh, right, your dad's in Florida "busting caps in asses". What's mom doing? Maintaining the integrity of your SN?

[Clames]

24. He is mistaken.

Should be "score two for the good guys".

[AnotherMcIntosh]

57. Good one. Thanks for the laugh.

[DonP]

25. Are you that dense? - It's easy to tell the bad guys from the good guys here.

Or are you taking over the now vacant position of criminal apologist from our prior resident Canadian?

I'll make it simple, so even you and all your gun control friends can grasp the concept.

Bad guys are the ones that run into the store, smashed some computers, ordered a bunch of innocent people to the ground and to produce their wallets under threat of death or severe physical injury (That's what the bad guys gun and baseball bat were for)

The good guy was the one that responded and shot one in the ass twice and the other once, didn't injure anyone but the criminals, and sadly, deprived the criminals of a lot of free stuff and gun grabbers of being able to point to a bunch of innocent civilians injured by "a rude toter with a gun stuffed down his pants".

That should help you and others with obvious cognitive impairments.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. Take a pill.

We are probably MOSTLY on the same side in these debates.

I found it a bit humorous the old codger who looks like my, now deceased, father who never owned a gun putting a few pills in those assholes. Besides, no one was killed or sustained life threatening injuries.


And for the mother crack: Go fuck yourself.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. I like your style.

brave. but, Mothers are always worth taking a chance on a hidden post. I wonder if it was alerted and allowed to stand.

[permatex]

58. You really should

[Starboard Tack]

62. LOL If I got any lighter I'd float away.

BTW the pic is starting to get old.

[ileus]

20. What a rude toter...probably there chatting with Randy Weaver

He doesn't trust proxies at his home where he's monitored because he's on the watch list.

[Tejas]

74. STOP IT!

please? My sides are hurting

[shadowrider]

21. This guy was obviously not armed with beans, bicycle tire, benjamins or a stern voice.

He should have attempted to disarm the guys using his shoe as a weapon. At 80 years old I'm sure it would have been no problem.

[Tejas]

75. Remember the broomhandle episode?

Some female poster said firearms were for cowards and that she used one to thwart a home invasion by 3 disadvantaged individuals. She was a real firecracker.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

29. Thanks for posting the video. I have been in favor of self-defense at home but not concealed carry.

Your posted video has convinced me.

It's also good to see that the guy had some practice. It looks like 6 rounds fired at moving targets with three hits. Not bad.

[TPaine7]

30. Welcome to the fold, friend...

*wipes away tear*

[Marinedem]

33. WOW!

Someone pin a medal on that guy!

Well done old dude. Well done.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

35. I wish that some of the posters would stop calling the shooter "old." Older, not old.

[PavePusher]

49. Heh, it's all relative.

I'm in my 40's and I'm old to some, young to others.

Perspective is a variable.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

47. thanks for the links. n/t

[Fembot]

50. Obviously Excessive

Shooter did not try reason with these misunderstood youths.

The Hoodies are a cultural thing you crackers wouldn't understand.

They were probably wearing hoodies in solidarity with Trayvon.

This old dude should have just dropped to his knee's and begged for mercy, they probably would not have killed him.

[permatex]

51. LOL

Welcome to DU.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

87. Troll is no longer with us. say BuhBye

[permatex]

89. Sure didn't last long

now I'll say goodbye to a racist troll

[Kablooie]

53. “It was scary,” said Kristy Kuhn, a customer. “It wasn't my idea of a good Friday night.”

[Loudly]

59. Guns as solution to guns.

The story would have been more persuasive with just the bat.

But one of the robbers had a gun which emboldened this crime.

Zero points.

[permatex]

60. I'll say this to you also, you really need to

[sarisataka]

61. The solution worked pretty well n/t

[Tejas]

69. Guns as alternative to getting a job.

Too many youths buying into MTV and hype from ex-cons.

[ManiacJoe]

72. Oddly, you seem to want to subdivide the lethal force category of weapons.

Some lethal weapons are OK to use a gun against while others are not?

[Tejas]

68. finger wasn't on the trigger...trying to get his life together...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117249228

"Noooooooooo, don't shoot, you can plainly see it's just a rusty old gun that doesn't work. My finger isn't even on the trigger! I'M INNOCENT!!1!"