Fear drives opposition to gun control

[SecularMotion]

There will be no new gun laws after the Aurora shooting for the basic reason that the American people do not want them.

Over the past 20 years, support for gun control has collapsed in the United States.

Three-quarters of Americans want to keep the right to own handguns, weapons whose only function is to kill human beings at close range. In 1959, 60% of Americans wanted handguns banned outright for all but police officers.

Responding to public opinion, states have loosened gun laws to allow citizens to carry weapons with them almost anywhere they go. In Georgia, Arizona, Tennessee and Virginia, it's legal to carry a gun into a bar. Guns and booze: What could go wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/opinion/frum-guns/index.html

[HockeyMom]

1. Add another reason why I don't like living in Florida

as a former New Yorker. I would rather be in New York. I felt safer. Gun nuts would never understand that. They would that that should make me WANT to own a gun to feel safer. False security. I feel the FUTURE gun owning criminals.

[gejohnston]

8. If you go back,

please take a developer with you. What I fear are former New Yorkers who get paranoid when they see a guy in a pick up truck show up at their country club. I would rather be in Wyoming. I feel just as safe here as I did there. I felt safe in the worst part of DC and Manila too, but I always had a charmed life.

[HockeyMom]

10. You go by experience

having been almost run off the road in NEW YORK by young men screaming at me for my Kerry bumper sticker, I don't trust young men in red pick up tricks. I suppose having seen a bus driver shot in the face on my way to see Santa at Macy's as a 6 year old has also "clouded" my view of guns.

Oh, don't tell me that I need to be around and shoot guns. Been there, done that. Realized in my youth that I was only doing that to please my husband. Guns disgusted me, so why do it to please somebody else?

[gregoire]

2. Fear makes people violent

It's no coincidence that these people want to own many tools of violence.

[permatex]

7. You mean like this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=50652

Or like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117253524

[rl6214]

3. Nice 'fluff' opinion piece, but that's all it is, is opinion

[Starboard Tack]

6. Do opinions have no value?

Or just those that differ from your own?

[rl6214]

11. Not when what is stated as fact is wrong.

"Three-quarters of Americans want to keep the right to own handguns, weapons whose only function is to kill human beings at close range"

From the OP

[HockeyMom]

12. Rights of majority cannot restrict rights of minority

At one time the majority supported slavery, bans on women voting, interracial marriage, etc.

[gejohnston]

16. sure about those?

or were they simply accepted? Interracial marriage bans were only in a few states. But we are not trying to trample on anyone's rights. It is the other way around.

[rl6214]

21. The item stated as fact:

"weapons whose only function is to kill human beings at close range"

Which is only opinion.

[gregoire]

24. How is that an opinon when it is true?

Or, are you claiming guns can't kill human beings?

[rl6214]

45. I am claiming they aren't made "only" to kill human beings

Many gun owners, myself include hunt with pistols. Many gun owners shoot pistols recreationally and would never dream of shooting another human being with their pistols.

[Starboard Tack]

25. One word wrong. Substitute "only" for "primary".

Not a big difference really. I know there are a few people who only like to target shoot and would never dream of using a handgun for it's primary purpose. Hell, I used to shoot skeet with a 12 gauge and hunt birds with a .177 air rifle, though I think the 12 gauge was probably invented for the birds and the BB for for target practice.
Personally, I would like everyone to have the right to own handguns, but I think we've blown that right as a nation. Too bad, but not unusual among humans. A few ruin it for the rest, but that's the price we must pay if we want to live in close proximity to one another.
IMO, the only chance to keep the right to own guns in the long term, is to establish and strictly enforce real gun free zones. Without those, it's just a matter of time, a matter of how many more crazy mass shootings the public will endure. On a political level, I would describe it as arriving at the point of diminishing returns.

[rrneck]

4. I would like to see the person that posted this discuss it. nt

[permatex]

5. Thats democracy in action

What concept, our Reps. listening to what their constituents want. whodda thunk it.

[gejohnston]

9. it is not fear, but defiance

and standing up to cultural imperialists. Support for gun control is entirely based on fear and emotion. Just read posts around here lately.

[HockeyMom]

13. Yes, I AM afraid

as a non-gun owner. What is your solution to that? Own a gun? No, thank you. Yes, I fear the "you's" as much as the criminals. You are the POTENTIAL criminals. Look at the statistics.

[HALO141]

17. What are you talking about?

[TPaine7]

19. You are also a POTENTIAL criminal, as are all living, active people. n/t

[gejohnston]

20. Look at the statistics

I don't have a criminal record
I am not involved in the drug trade
I am not part of the drug culture.
I am not a member of a gang
I live in a rural area

All of that means the chance of me being a "potential criminal" is non existent. It also means my chance of being a murder victim is close to non existent.


You could move to gun free paradises like NYC, DC, Chicago, USVI, UK, Jamaica, or Costa Rica and avoid backward places where no permit to carry is required like Vermont. If you feel safer in those places than Vermont or even Florida, looking at the statistics, I would have to question your rationality.
You have to deal with your own fears. I'm not an amateur shrink and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

[Hoyt]

54. Zimmerman had same "credentials." Come to think of it so did Holmes, Loughner, etc.

[gejohnston]

55. I missed the one about Zimmerman

but Loughner was part of the drug culture, being rejected by having THC in his urine. Some reports are saying Holmes was taking Vicodin.

[Hoyt]

56. How many in the gun culture do you think tote while taking prescription meds that alter

judgement to some degree.

[gejohnston]

58. seems he is an addict, not legal taker of such meds.

If you are OK to drive, you are OK to carry.

[Hoyt]

59. Maybe under NRA backed laws, but strapping on a gun is different from driving to market.

[HALO141]

60. Bullshit

[Hoyt]

62. What is "bullshit?" You think gun carriers on Aricept; benzodiazepines; or an antidepressant that

increases aggressiveness, etc., are AOK when packing a gun? You should take a closer look. But, I'm sure you worry one day you'll be on something -- or have a medical/mental issue -- that would/should keep you from your guns because it puts society at risk by impeding whatever judgement you have. (In my opinion, most who strap on guns have a judgement issue to begin with, but that's another concern.)

[HALO141]

63. Bullshit is your opinion

that everyone is walking around, teetering on the brink of the abyss. I would not advocate carrying a weapon if one's judgement is impaired.

[Hoyt]

66. Well at least we agree one should not carry if one's judgement is impaired. That's encouraging.

[rl6214]

22. Irrational much?

"Andrea Yates (born Andrea Pia Kennedy on July 2, 1964) is a former Houston, Texas resident who killed her five children on June 20, 2001 by drowning them in the bathtub in her house.[1] She had been suffering for some time with very severe postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis."

You are a Potential criminal.

[shadowrider]

31. Dude, this is the lady who insisted you could walk into WalMart and for $100 buy

any gun, no questions asked.

[rl6214]

46. I never saw that one

[Callisto32]

65. At least there haven't been any convenient "family member" stories, yet.

[krispos42]

57. Two-thirds of armed robberies are without guns.

And let's not forget that many members of violent gangs grew up on states and cities with strict gun control... in other words, in areas where guns were not socially acceptable and rarely seen.

[Starboard Tack]

27. Support for either side of the issue is based on fear

Ironically, they are all afraid of others with guns. One side sees the answer to be NO GUNS and the other side MORE GUNS.
Makes me think of mosquitoes. What do you do? Drain the swamp or keep buying bug repellent? Well, if you want to go out at night, I'd say drain the swamp.

[gejohnston]

29. and destroy the ecosystems that depend on the swamp?

Not to mention the natural water filtration and flood control. I vote for bug spray.

[Starboard Tack]

34. I vote for staying indoors at night. Situational awareness.

[gejohnston]

38. then you miss the stars at night

[Starboard Tack]

52. Actually I don't, because I don't choose to live in a state where mosquitoes live.

We have very few bugs in SoCal. They are more of a curiosity here than a pest. In the event of sailing to more bug ridden zones, we have screens on all hatches and ports.
I learned my lessons the hard way by sailing into noseeums at dusk in Florida and black flies on northern lakes in June/July.

[gejohnston]

53. making me home sick for Wyoming

I understand, to some degree, where Hockeymom is coming from. I will say I would miss the lightning bugs.

[Starboard Tack]

61. I think you've been homesick for quite a while and I can't blame you.

I can totally relate to where Hockeymom is coming from.

[meanit]

41. From what I see

it's the cultural imperialists who are standing up and opening fire on people, and no one with any authority is taking them to task for it.
Damn right gun control is based on fear and emotion. A 24 year old is ordering thousands of rounds of ammunition on the internet and having it delivered to his door, acquiring the materials and knowledge to make booby traps, tear gas bombs along with who knows what else, and yet all of this activity doesn't even raise a red flag? Then he goes and shoots up a theater showing a fucking Batman movie? Yeah, I think people are a little tweaked out over that.
The TV and radio are full of 24/7 right wing hate and fear mongering to the point where some "pundits" are openly calling for violence. (Anyone wanna bet that Holmes wasn't watching LINK TV in his spare time?)
People see what is going on; SYG abuse, concealed carry without a permit, assholes showing up outside presidential speeches with AR-15's slung over their shoulders or side arms hanging from their belts. And yes, people are worried about it. Not everybody wants to walk around armed like Dirty Harry, but they do want to see something done to try and curb the madness that is starting to become all to common.
Gun laws are not always fair to safe, levelheaded gun enthusiasts, but right wing loons and maniacs have the same gun rights as the rest of us. I can't blame people for wanting something done to combat this problem, rather than just more guns everywhere.

[gejohnston]

42. Your first sentence is wrong

you have cultural imperialists confused with mass murderers.
The dude is going to jail. I call that "taking them to task for it."


What the fuck is LINK TV?

[meanit]

43. No, not wrong

you said you keep your guns, in part, to "stand up to the cultural imperialists", which I interpret as the extremist right. But my point is that the extremists are the ones doing most of the shooting. A progressive having a ton of guns in his house is not going to prevent a loon shooting up some place 1000 miles away. But people think that a gun law just might help.

BTW, LINK TV is a satellite channel with liberal programming.

[gejohnston]

47. I was putting it in this context

as described by criminologist James Wright.
http://johnib.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/guns-and-american-history-and-culture/
Holmes wasn't political, just stoned and off his rocker.
Most murderers have extensive criminal records, including felonies. The same is true of the victims. Most of the shootings are concentrated in a few areas in major cities.

Most of the shooting is being done by gangs. That is as true in the US as it is in Europe, Canada, and Mexico. Much of it has to do with the drug trade. That is why gun laws don't help any more than they do in Mexico, Jamaica, Brazil, or the UK for that matter. While UK does have less gun violence, and fewer gangs and gang members, they do use machine guns more than we do here.

The real culprits are not so much right wing militias as it is drug prohibition and the drug culture that fuels the gang wars.

[HALO141]

14. Even a casual perusal of the two positions

clearly shows that fear is the motivating factor behind the controllers.

[NewMoonTherian]

15. So what drives support for gun control?

Fear, arrogance, spite for fellow citizens, bigotry?

The author contradicts himself further into the article. He references statistics saying that the American public is less afraid of crime in their neighborhoods now than they were in the early 80's. So his whole premise collapses. So he then tries to rebuild it by saying people are more afraid of nationwide crime. Then he goes off into a breakdown of gun ownership demographics that's supposed to prove... I'm not sure what, beyond his own prejudice.

[gejohnston]

18. If it bleeds it leads

The more terrifyingly criminal the world looks, the more ineffective law enforcement seems, the more Americans demand the right to deadly weapons with which to defend themselves. It is local TV programming directors, not the National Rifle Association, who are tirelessly persuading Americans that they need to strap a gun to their legs before heading to the mall.

[Starboard Tack]

33. The same thing that drives support for more guns on the streets - FEAR!

The fact that violent crime stats are down has nothing to do with increased gun sales. Fear mongering is a sales tactic, think about it. If violent crime is down, why should people buy more guns? Gotta give'em some good reasons, right? Well, let's start with RW propaganda that Obama is going to take away your guns. Better get down to the gun store right now and stock up on ammo while you're there. And if guns are going to be banned, better start hoarding them for the ensuing "armageddon". What an investment for tomorrow's black market.
Yeah, FEAR! FEAR is the driving force behind all reactionary politics.

[gejohnston]

36. or like the increase in gun sales in

Canada and Australia, shooting sports are cool and respectable again.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. ?

Fear drives opposition to advocacy of gun control.


there, fixed it for you.

[Starboard Tack]

35. It drives both opposition and advocacy. Same coin - different sides.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. I just wish that Skinner would put the coin back in GC&RKBA slot where it belongs. thanks.

[Enrique]

26. it's the lawmakers that are afraid

of the NRA. For good reason. The NRA is a monster.

[gejohnston]

28. not the NRA

the grass roots machine they can mobilize.

[Enrique]

32. the grass roots are thier weapon

or maybe it's better to say the grassroots NRA members are their ammunition. They are afraid of the NRA, which is holding the weapon. It's the guy holding the gun that is driving everything, the bullets are just sitting in the chamber. One is afraid of the gun holder, no one begs for their life to a bullet.

[gejohnston]

51. not only NRA members

the 75 million who are not.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. WE are the lawmakers. that is what the whole revolutionary war was about

we govern ourselves, we are no longer subjects of Kings.

[GreenStormCloud]

49. Over 50% of the members of Congress are NRA members.

They aren't afraid of the NRA, they are part of the NRA.

[Starboard Tack]

64. Is that really a fact? Over 50%? Do you have a link?

[pnwmom]

30. I think there's also a racist element.

DUers, I'm not talking about you.

But I think there's a significant group of white gun fanatics who have the Willie Horton image firmly embedded in their unconscious, thanks to the Rethugs and the NRA. And they want to be ready for when a black guy with a gun attacks them.

George Zimmerman is a recent example.

[Hoyt]

44. I believe that is at least 80% of it. The gun stores did a booming business after Obama won and

folks started wanting to "take their country back" from people they fear.

Willy Horton is a perfect example.

When you see the gun culture protesting, it typically look like this (notice the "militia" Tbagger in second photo):

[virginia mountainman]

39. The most sailiant point of the artical..

There will be no new gun laws after the Aurora shooting for the basic reason that the American people do not want them. Over the past 20 years, support for gun control has collapsed in the United States.

Yep, the American people have said time and time again, NO MORE, but yet some still try to force Gun Control on us.

Gun Control advocates should take heed, and be very careful, not to stir the gun rights community to action... Because by their impotent advocacy, they will cause a 100 fold push back. As happened in the passed

If they do, MUCH more gun CONTROL will fall. Not to mention endangering the upcoming election.

[ileus]

40. only function is to kill human beings at close range...LOL

I suppose there's no such thing as target shooting.







And those below are made for protecting lives.







Some are for collecting.

[MicaelS]

50. I see he blames local news..

But of course avoids mentioning his own round the clock swill fest. CNN, Fox, NBC News are all just as much to blame as any other news outlet. They give worldwide publicity to scum like Holmes, where otherwise it might be only local news.