Knowing that Obama's re-election can mean

[safeinOhio]

a few more liberal judges on the Supreme Court and the reversal of the DC and Chicago rulings and a return to the 2nd as a collective right, they were 5 to 4. Will you hard core RKBA Democrats, not vote this fall or vote for Romney? Or will you decide that economics, the middle class and other rights are more important and vote for Obama?

[hack89]

1. I will never vote for a republican. Never

If a conservative court has failed to overturn Roe v Wade, why are you so certain a liberal court will overturn Heller?

I am not worried about rolling back Heller - the action has been at the state level. A SC ruling will not roll back all those state laws.

[Hells Liberal]

3. Amen, Brother hack89!

Your post says it all.

[safeinOhio]

4. Good, I respect that.

In Chicago, the question of collective vs individual, is discussed by the majority and the minority responses. It was a 5 to 4 along party type views of the court members. One switch to the liberal side can change that.

I am also of the opinion that the 2nd addresses federal issues of standing armies and war. The Amendment says nothing about individual self-defense, thus leaving that to the states to regulate as they wish.

[gejohnston]

12. Collective vs individual was not the issue in Chicago

the issue was incorporation. McDonald overturned one of the most despicable SCOTUS decisions made, one that made Jim Crow possible and civil rights lawyers have been chipping at since the 1930s.

Constitutional commentator Leonard Levy wrote: "Cruikshank paralyzed the federal government's attempt to protect black citizens by punishing violators of their Civil Rights and, in effect, shaped the Constitution to the advantage of the Ku Klux Klan." Federal civil rights enforcement was blocked by Cruikshank until 1966 (United States v. Price; United States v. Guest) when the Court vitiated Cruikshank.[8] Cruikshank has also been cited for over a century by supporters of restrictive state and local gun control laws such as the Sullivan Act.
Although significant portions of Cruikshank have been overturned by later decisions, it is still relied upon with some authority in other portions. Cruikshank and Presser v. Illinois, which reaffirmed it in 1886, are the only significant Supreme Court interpretations of the Second Amendment until the murky United States v. Miller in 1939, but both preceded the court's general acceptance of the incorporation doctrine and have been questioned for that reason. However, the majority opinion of the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller in 2008 clearly suggested that Cruikshank and the chain of cases flowing from it would no longer be considered good law as a result of the radically changed view of the Fourteenth Amendment when that issue eventually comes before the courts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

[Hells Liberal]

2. I'm very pro-RKBA

But nonetheless, I've voted for people I knew to be hostile to that right (like Obama, Dukakis, Clinton and Mondale) because I agreed with them more than I disagreed with them.

That said, don't expect any major changes from the Supreme Court. It takes a long time for a case to make its way to them. Also, contrary to the lies perpetuated by the repubs, its the more liberal judges who tend to have a greater respect for stare decisis, the legal term for respecting past precedents by the court.

Also, after the asskickings congressional Democrats received in 1994, and Al Gore's loss in 2000, any Democrat with even the slightest aspirations for the presidency is not going to touch gun control with a 10-foot pole. Even Willard, who proudly declared that he would not do the NRA's bidding as the governor of Massachusetts, turned around and became a life member of the NRA when he decided to run for president.

In short, if I had any real reason to think that RKBA was in any danger from another four years of President Obama, I'd sit out the election or vote 3rd party (like I did in '96 and '00). But none of what you predict is likely to happen and since I agree with him on so many other issues, I'll still vote for President Obama in '12.

[Hells Liberal]

5. BTW: About liberals and guns

You automatically assume that become someone is a liberal that they are anti-gun. I assume you also believe that being conservative automatically makes someone pro-gun.

There are many, many pro-gun liberals (including, proudly, myself!).

There are also many, many antigun repubs. Some examples include: Mitt Romney; Arnold Schwarzenegger; George Will; Bill O'Reilly; Rudy Guiliani; George Pataki; Lowell Weicker; William Weld; Governor Christie; Christine Whitman; and too many others to list here.

[safeinOhio]

6. Not at all. There are many moderates on gun laws.

Both extremes of the issue love to make it a black and white issue. One can be for "shall issue" and call for more training as a requirement and more extensive background checks. One can be for the individual right and see it as a state and local issue and not connected to the 2nd. Many gun enthusiast are calling for or support mandatory background checks on all private sales. Many handgun owners and people that carry support registration of all handguns.

[jeepnstein]

14. Yeah, but we live in flyover land.

Things are much more sane here than some other parts of the country.

If, and this is a big if, if the 2nd Amendment was seen as a rock-solid guarantee of an individual's right to keep and bear a firearm for personal or collective defense then a lot of the resistance to registration would go away. Unfortunately most see registration as just an incremental step towards confiscation. When the people writing the legislation publicly state that they would prefer an outright ban it doesn't inspire trust in anything they do. This is going to be an issue we'll be arguing for years to come.

The registration schemes we've seen in the U.S. are primarily designed to keep guns out of the hands of private citizens who do not have influence over the government. That's why hillbillies like me don't like registration.

[alabama_for_obama]

19. I see registration as a VERY expensive boondoggle

That won't do anything at all to prevent or help solve crimes. The canadians are talking about getting rid of theirs because it costs millions of dollars per year... imagine with the way we love to do everything the hard and complicated and expensive way + the fact that we have so many more people and guns to register. And imagine the fact that criminals STILL won't bother to register their guns.

Why keep unnecessary lists?

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Stare Decisis.

Supreme Court justices are extremely reluctant to reverse previous SCOTUS decisions. A country needs stability in its laws. If a liberal SCOTUS flips the decision then when the conservatives regain a majority, as the pendelum will one day swing again, then they will feel no restraint in rapidly reflipping the country to their set of laws. Such instability is very bad for any country, so both sides respect Stare Decisis.

[permatex]

8. This is nothing but flame bait

[Clames]

10. It is.

Fear mongering is fear mongering.

[Clames]

9. I don't worry about such things.

The laws in the states I do business in didn't change with the recent SCOTUS decisions. I'm not worried about losing the guns I already own. President Obama isn't going to make this an issue when he is reelected. Majority of Americans are not looking for big changes either way. A sensible middle ground is already in place for all intents and purposes.

[ileus]

11. After the last decision we may already have the swing vote.

On the other hand being regressive in one major category shouldn't cancel out all the others.

I think now pretty much all the controllers know that the only way to get to where they want to go is with court decisions. The people have spoken when it comes to the 2A.

[rrneck]

13. This should have been a poll.

I'll never vote for a Republican. Never.

[alabama_for_obama]

20. you must not live in the deep south.

there wasn't a single democrat on my ballot during the primary this year. Except for the president, and he was running unopposed. If I want any say in the political life of my town and state, I often have to hold my nose. fortunately many are RINO's who just run as repugs because that is how it is...

[gejohnston]

21. in other words,

pick the least worst in the general election?

[HALO141]

15. If you think SCOTUS is going to re-examine those decisions any time

in the foreseeable future you're smokin crack. Similarly, if Romney is elected and appoints more conservative judges, they won't go back and open up the health care decision. Yes, the Court has reversed itself but it's really quite rare.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. I'm voting for Obama.

Even on the single issue of Gun Control, Obama is better than Romney, based on both candidate's track records in office.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. ^^^^yes. ^^^^ and I am not worried about Supreme Court Appointees by Obama.

[gejohnston]

17. couple things

There were no liberals on the Heller court. There were hard right wingers and conservatives, but no liberals.
The court never ruled the 2A as a collective right. The concept didn't exist until the mid 20th century, so it can't be returned to a place where it never was.
As far as economics etc. go, bad economies make gun rights moot. Control by ecomomy. Guns are durable goods and kind of expensive. Durable goods don't sell in a bad economy. Ammo can be expensive. Get laid off or wages cut, you have to cut someplace. Ever see the Smith and Wesson logo on old pipes or faucets? During the depression, the company survived by diversifieng. Colt had military and police contracts. Everyone else was affordable.

As far as RKBA goes, Obama has an F from the NRA for what (they claim, might be other reasons) he wrote and said years ago. Brady gives him and F for what he as done (or hasn't) lately. We can debate why, only he knows the answer to that.
As for Mitt, I think even Hoyt will agree with TTAG on this one:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/chris-dumm/romney-panders-to-nra-anti-gunners-simultaneously/