Does anyone here carry a firearm everywhere they go?

[Starboard Tack]

Just curious as one of our brethren didn't believe me, when I claimed there were some who never leave home without at least one firearm.

[beevul]

1. You're moving the goalposts. The words you used were...

You're moving the goalposts. The words you used were...


"I'm only referring to those who have stated that they will go nowhere without being armed."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11723715#post160

Edit the Op to use those words or admit dishonesty.

Because "never leave home" without a firearm, and "go nowhere without being armed" are two differnet things, and one of those is the claim that is IN QUESTION, and one IS NOT the claim that is in question.

[iverglas]

58. can you explain this distinction for me please?

Because "never leave home" without a firearm, and "go nowhere without being armed" are two differnet things, and one of those is the claim that is IN QUESTION, and one IS NOT the claim that is in question.

I do apologise if it is me being obtuse, but I'm not seeing the distinction or the difference.

Perhaps you are suggesting that "being armed" could be interpreted to mean, oh, "with a knife in their pocket" or "with a sawed-off baseball bat down their trousers"?

In the GUNS forum?

I really would like clarification, because I'm seeing a conditional accusation of dishonesty and I would like to be sure I understand the grounds for it.

[beevul]

73. Sure , no problem.

The context of this, is the phrase "compulsive toter".

It was initially defined as someone who would "go nowhere without being armed".

That definition was walked back to "never leave homewithout a firearm".


Lots of people might never leave home without a firearm, yet go somewhere unarmed.



Not to mention that "compulsive toter" was applied based on the actions, rather than the motivations for them.

[iverglas]

74. oh well

Lots of people might never leave home without a firearm, yet go somewhere unarmed.

I hope you didn't hurt yourself, straining like that!

Your allegation is that there was an intentional shift in meaning, when what I see is someone who would never have dreamed that anyone would interpret the two as meaning something different. Frankly, I would say that one would really have to be immersed in minutiae of the minute-by-minute life of the firearm-carrier in order to even grasp that distinction when it is spotlighted.

I would also point out that there actually have been comments made in this forum by people who say they will not go somewhere where they are not permitted to carry their firearm -- so in their case, at least, there is no distinction at all.

I think it's you who should be doing the substantiating or apologising here.

[beevul]

75. I might have known the way you'd respond.

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2012, 08:47 AM - Edit history (1)

"Your allegation is that there was an intentional shift in meaning, when what I see is someone who would never have dreamed that anyone would interpret the two as meaning something different."

I don't think you realize what you just said, but I'll gladly take your word for it. I have no doubt, thats what you SEE. Of course it is.


"Frankly, I would say that one would really have to be immersed in minutiae of the minute-by-minute life of the firearm-carrier in order to even grasp that distinction when it is spotlighted."

And how much more or less would one have to be "immersed in minutiae of the minute-by-minute life of the firearm-carrier" in order to acurately characterize someone as a "compulsive toter"? That is the phrase in question, you see. And it carries a specific meaning, rather than "it means what I say it means". Originally the poster of the OP used that phrase and applied it to people who he/she knows NOTHING about, based souly on the alleged actions of that poster, and with NO relation to the cause or decision that led to those actions.

Tell me - do you condone this? Are such things just A-OK in your book? Does that constitute that genuine good faith discussion you seem so fond of mentioning from time to time?


"I would also point out that there actually have been comments made in this forum by people who say they will not go somewhere where they are not permitted to carry their firearm -- so in their case, at least, there is no distinction at all."

I in turn must point out, that it seems you're pretending that someone that claims they wont go somewhere where they can't carry a firearm, is the same thing as someone claiming they wont go ANYWHERE without one. It isn't. Really. One who might avoid a certain business, for example, because he/she can't carry there aka voting with the wallet, while haveing no trouble going unarmed through secured areas like certain areas of courthouses and airports, is not the same as a person who refuses to go to those places, and ALL other places, where that person can not be armed.

One is an absolute, and one is not. The OP made a claim, and set a standard, originally, that standard was an ABSOLUTE. That poster then posted this thread after substantial flondering in the other thread, with a walked back definition. AKA moving the goalposts. Post number one of this thread quotes, and links to the original claim.

Now, lest we get into semantic games, if what you really meant was that there is a claim by someone here abouts that they will not go ANYWHERE (an absolute, like the initial claim of the poster of the OP) where a firearm is not allowed, just say so. And post a link to the thread that contains it. I'll entertain it and point out that one single individual does not prove the existence of a group like him. And I'll be right. No apologies necessary by me, there.

On the other hand, if that isn't your claim, and you really meant that someone here claimed they wouldn't go somewhere - a specific place, but not ALL places where firearms are not allowed - I'm afraid that doesn't meet the burden of the standard set NOT BY ME, but by the OP him/her self in another thread that led to the posting of this one.

Which did you mean?

Maybe, just maybe, you should read that other thread before you start your normal pontification, eh?

[rl6214]

2. I went to a football game the other day, didn't carry then.

Other places I don't carry, my wifes school (she's a teacher), amusement parks, parks in general, visiting my son at the USNA, visiting cities/states that don't allow them, DC, Maryland

[beevul]

3. Very clearly, "go nowhere without being armed" does not apply to you.

Thank you for chiming in sir.

[Starboard Tack]

67. Really? Then how come you said differently in another thread?

Criminals doing criminal things
Does this surprise you? Dosen't surprise me, that's why I carry a gun everywhere I go.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=5438

Did you forget, or were you just trying to appear less extreme.

[iverglas]

79. snork

I guess I could let that stand as my reply to post 75.

[rl6214]

87. I have also posted that I carry 99% of the time

Care to look that one up or do you have it bookmarked. I carry where I can legally. I would say that is carrying pretty much everywhere I go.

[Starboard Tack]

89. OK you have now given three completely different answers

Everywhere I go
99% of the time
and
I went to a football game the other day, didn't carry then.
Other places I don't carry, my wifes school (she's a teacher), amusement parks, parks in general, visiting my son at the USNA, visiting cities/states that don't allow them, DC, Maryland

I guess you must spend between 0% and 1% doing those things. Not too much time at football games, your wife's school, parks, DC, Maryland and other places where they aren't allowed.

You don't seem too sure, yourself, which indicates that, if you do tote a gun, you may not be doing it voluntarily. Or, you may not be doing it at all.

[rl6214]

90. First I don't "tote" a gun, I carry a gun

I will admit the comment I made about carrying a gun everywhere I go due to crime is mostly correct, I guess I should have included "where legal to do so". There are areas where a person with a concealed carry lic are not allowed to carry. I follow the law and do not carry in those places SO my comment should have read I always carry everywhere legally allowed to do so.

"I guess you must spend between 0% and 1% doing those things. Not too much time at football games, your wife's school, parks, DC, Maryland and other places where they aren't allowed. "

I guess you would be right, maybe 3 football games this year, don't go to parks, went to DC for a day in July, picked up my wife a couple of times from school.

"You don't seem too sure, yourself, which indicates that, if you do tote a gun, you may not be doing it voluntarily. Or, you may not be doing it at all."

No, I am completely sure of myself and my decision to carry a gun is entirely mine. I got my license three years ago and have had the belief that if you are going to carry, you should do it whenever, wherever legal to do so. If you only carry part of the time you will not become accustomed to doing so.

Hope this help clear things up for you.

[Starboard Tack]

93. You don't tote. You carry. I give up.

Definition of TOTE
transitive verb
1: to carry by hand : bear on the person : lug, pack
2: haul, convey
— tot·er noun
Origin of TOTE
probably from an English-based creole; akin to Gullah & Krio tot to carry, of Bantu origin; akin to Kikongo -tota to pick up, Kimbundu -tuta to carry
First Known Use: 1677

[rl6214]

94. And you know you use the term "tote" to be some sort of insult

This is a tote

http://www.ebags.com/category/totes/20024884

[Starboard Tack]

96. Are you in complete denial?

You think commercial use of a word defines that word? Tote is a word in the English language, used for centuries. One of it's most common uses is in reference to carrying a gun on one's person.
Look the fucking word up in any dictionary and find me where it is defined as a disparaging term.

You are losing credibility very quickly.

[rl6214]

97. Are you angry?

You sound angry. Maybe you should see someone about that anger issue. Are you off your meds? Breathe deep, relax and try not to get so worked up.

[Starboard Tack]

100. No I'm not angry.

I am amused by your variations of the truth. Just curious, but do you think windows were invented by Microsoft?

[ileus]

101. tote has been hoyted...everyone knows this here.

tote, rude, impolite, baser, gunner, gun nut...the end around list is almost endless.

[Starboard Tack]

102. What absolute nonsense. You made that up.

Are you so sensitive that you can't accept common English words? And what does hoyted mean?

It is not my fault that you refuse to accept the normal usage of a word exactly as every dictionary defines it. I find the term "packing" or "packing heat" to be tasteless and vulgar slang. I don't use such expressions.

Apart from your imaginary definition of the word as some kind of slur, would you care to back it up without slurring other DU members?

[ManiacJoe]

111. Are you honestly saying that you do not read Hoyt's posts?

[Starboard Tack]

113. Of course I read Hoyt's posts

What does that have to do with anything? Do we now have a verb in the English language related to our fellow member Hoyt? I'm supposed to understand what "hoyted" means, but not understand what "tote" means. Tell me Mr. ManiacJoe, what does the word "tote" mean to you?

[ManiacJoe]

114. Hoyt has turned "tote" into a slur.

His use of the word became so comical that others here went to the extent of mocking him through imitation for many months.

You somehow missed all this?

[Starboard Tack]

115. You're shitting me?

Hoyt's use of a very common word, meaning "carry" became "comical"? Interesting sense of humor some folk have. And then, finding it comical, they decided to mock him for many months. Did they do this to show their deep understanding of the English language, or just because they enjoy mocking Hoyt? Or are these "others" that you refer to ignorami?

[ManiacJoe]

118. Go back to DU2 and read it all for yourself.

Hoyt's slurs were sad, still are. The mocking of Hoyt's slurs started off as comical, then later just became wasted filler, at least in my opinion.

[jeepnstein]

145. And therefore the use of "tote"...

ultimately leads the rest of us to believe that the poster using that term is as whacked as the one who set the bar for such foolishness very high. Rude toters who are enabled by bullet spewing death machines bought at Arizona gun shows, you know, that sort of thing. I'm still waiting for him to post a video of him field stripping a 1911 under water.

[X_Digger]

4. What an asinine premise..

What, you claim there are people who either never go to places that they're disbarred from carrying, or that they carry always in contravention of the law?

When did you stop beating your dog?


eta: to answer your asinine question anyway- I don't carry at work, when I go to a sporting event, a bar (as defined by TX law as an establishment that makes 51% of their income from sales of alcohol to be consumed on premises), establishments that post 30.06 signs, etc, etc.

[beevul]

6. See this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11723715#post160

[X_Digger]

8. Yeah, he can't be bothered to back up his bluster with actual posts (or even threads).

Typical. Back him into a corner that he can't squeeze out of, and it boils down to a) a dodge, b) "but that's diiiiiiferent!" (and refusing to explain why without emo hand-wringing), or c) "That's my opinion, I don't have to prove it."

Gets a bit tiresome. Good thing it's so transparent.

[Starboard Tack]

86. What a crock. Don't put words in my mouth

I never suggested anyone goes where it is illegal to carry. I made no claims. And I don't have a dog. When I did have dog, I trated him with love and respect.
Now, why don't you respond in a civil way, as others have. Would you carry in those places if it were legal/permissible? Not a tough question.

[X_Digger]

91. "those who have stated that they will go nowhere without being armed."

That was your original premise. As much as you try to walk it back now, you're not fooling anyone.

Even in this thread, you've tried to conflate carrying everywhere that it is legal to do so with 'compulsive toting'. ("if you do tote a gun, you may not be doing it voluntarily&quot . And as much as you demur that no, you're not trying to intimate mental illness, it's patently obvious that you are.

What utter bullshit.

[Starboard Tack]

92. "Walk it back now.."?

What am I walking back? Some are compulsive toters. So what? Doesn't infer mental illness, just compulsive behavior. You are the one making the leap to mental illness. Do you think compulsive smokers are mentally ill? Not all addictions or compulsive behaviors are mental illnesses. Read the responses. You'll figure it out.

[X_Digger]

95. Yes, I see you trying to walk it back.

Keep on trying to disavow your intentional inference. It's not working, but it sure is funny.

It's transparent, too.

[Starboard Tack]

98. You don't give up, do you?

Do you shadow box much?

[X_Digger]

99. No, you made your bed, feel free to lie in it.

You're not getting in mine, your feet are cold.

[Starboard Tack]

103. No, I clearly made my point. Thanks to you and your buddy Beevul

Many of our members have stated that they don't go anywhere without toting a gun, unless it is illegal, and would tote in those places if it were legal. That's called compulsive.

[X_Digger]

104. Lol, no you haven't.. "stated that they will go nowhere without being armed."

We have..

"everywhere that it is legal to carry." -- so not everwhere
"I have been armed most times " -- most, not all
"I absolutely do carry almost everywhere." -- almost
"Most of the time I do" -- sometimes not
"The only exception is if I know it would be unlawful to carry where I'm going" -- no not everywhere
"I obviously do not carry when I enter a restricted area..." -- so not everywhere
"I'd say about 80 or 85% of the time." -- 20-15% not
" I carry most of the time." -- and sometimes not
"I carry whenever I'm not at work or drinking." -- so not 100%
"I don't always carry one out to the mailbox." -- so not everywhere

The closest you came was this- "I put it on when I get up in the morning and take it off when I go to bed." -- which still doesn't answer your assertion 'will go nowhere without'..

I know your weasel word back down was intentional, but you haven't come close to the original assertion.

Find me one person who "stated that they will go nowhere without being armed."

[Starboard Tack]

105. I wasn't expecting anyone to carry illegally, but you knew that.

The following 8 members all say that they carry virtually everywhere, when permissible and would carry everywhere if it were permissible. This does not make them mentally ill or anything else you wish to infer. It makes them honest in their responses, with one exception, who has given three separate responses to date.
Sorry if my wording didn't suit your agenda, but the following members have made it clear that they feel compelled to carry a gun at all times. What compels them is up to them. There is no assumption on my part that they are psychologically impaired.

Spin, WeHaveAProblem, Oneshooter, michreject, OneTenthOfOnePercent, DWC, GreenStormCloud and our ditherer rl6214.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure they'll let me know.

[X_Digger]

106. Michael Jackson would be proud of that moonwalk.

Why don't you ask them if they "will go nowhere without being armed"?

You could have just asked that in the OP, but then you wouldn't get responses that you could twist.

[Starboard Tack]

107. Why don't you ask them?

Which responses did I twist and why would I want to do that? Feel free to poll each member.

[X_Digger]

108. Lol, I quoted them above..

We have..

"everywhere that it is legal to carry." -- so not everwhere
"I have been armed most times " -- most, not all
"I absolutely do carry almost everywhere." -- almost
"Most of the time I do" -- sometimes not
"The only exception is if I know it would be unlawful to carry where I'm going" -- no not everywhere
"I obviously do not carry when I enter a restricted area..." -- so not everywhere
"I'd say about 80 or 85% of the time." -- 20-15% not
" I carry most of the time." -- and sometimes not
"I carry whenever I'm not at work or drinking." -- so not 100%
"I don't always carry one out to the mailbox." -- so not everywhere

None meet your original assertion- "will go nowhere without being armed."

No matter how you spin it, you didn't get what you claim.

[Starboard Tack]

112. I named them. Now you can ask them.

They made it quite clear. What don't you understand about that. They don't hide behind semantics and nuance. They tell us honestly and I respect them for that. Your attempt to discredit my question is beyond pathetic. Even Beevul answered the OP, though I have no idea why. You just decided not to answer it, yet continue to try to disrupt. Anyway, I want to thank you for helping motivate me to post the question, flawed as it may have been. But the results were illuminating. Peace.

[X_Digger]

119. Apparently you didn't actually read my reply #4. I answered as well.

Makes me wonder if you have problems with comprehension.

No, you weaseled your question into a different form that you could still try to claim meant what you earlier asserted.

If you can't see the difference between your earlier claim and this, you're either uncomprehending, which is pitiable, or intentionally trying to deceive, which is deplorable.

[Starboard Tack]

117. You can now add Old Codger to the list. That makes 9.

[X_Digger]

133. Not a single person has stated that they "will go nowhere without being armed."

As much as you tried to spin it.. you failed.

[beevul]

5. My turn: I dont carry a gun, so "go nowhere without being armed" obviously doesn't apply to me. N/T

[petronius]

7. Looks like two fundamental laws of the internet are going head to head:

1) You can usually find at least one outlier to support the weasel-word "some"

vs.

2) Claims involving the word "never" are highly unlikely to be correct.

It's like matter versus antimatter here - I'll be in my bunker...

[krispos42]

9. Change "never" to "almost never" to get a more accurate response.

I'm sure several Gungeon regulars routinely carry concealed, but "routinely" and "always" are two entirely different ideas.

[beevul]

10. The assertion that they're "compulsive toters" wouldn't really stick so good then.

That was the assertion made by the poster of the OP.

Thats what the OP is about, trying to prove there are "compulsive toters" amongst us.

[Starboard Tack]

12. What is your problem with the word compulsive?

All it means is that they feel compelled by their desire, or need, to carry to ensure their personal safety. You seem to take offense at the words I use. I mean no offense. I'm trying to understand what motivates people to do things that appear irrational to me. This is a discussion board. We exchange ideas and views. We are all Democrats, I hope. Most of us are liberals. When I see my fellow liberals engaging in behavior which is anathema to many liberals, and practiced by a very small percentage, it makes me curious.
My position has changed considerably since I first came to the gungeon. I came here to learn and to share, not to bluster or insult. I am on neither side of the gun control issue right now. I see it as an exercise in futility versus an exercise in stupidity.
The only thing left is rationality. I understand the rationale of banners/controllers but I don't like that path, because it infringes on individual rights. What I don't understand is the mentality of the compulsive, or even the habitual toter, but especially the compulsive. The guy who never wants to go anywhere without a gun.

[krispos42]

14. There's a connotation of mental illness with it, that's why.

As in, "obsessive-compulsive". Something that we're not in full control of. Something that we can NOT do only with great mental effort and control.


I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt when I'm in the front seat of a moving car, and usually in the back seat, too. I actually get a bit skeevy if I don't. Is that compulsive, or habitual?

[Starboard Tack]

16. It's a fine line. I think it progressed from habitual to compulsive, for me, to fasten a seatbelt.

I do the same on planes and other forms of transportation. I also do other compulsive things. Minor OCD shit. Like adjusting volume controls to only prime numbers. I don't think I'm mentally ill, just a little eccentric. Not padded cell stuff. Oh, and I keep planes aloft through very powerful concentration combined with at least two fingers remaining crossed during take-off and landing. (Used to be for the whole flight).
I'm oK in the back seat without the belt, also. What's that all about.

[rrneck]

22. The seatbelt is a bad analogy.

Any time one is in a vehicle and the vehicle is in motion they are in danger of a collision. Most people in this country are able to go through their lives without fear from assault. On the other hand, there is no such thing as a "minor fender bender assault". Nobody just "walks away" from a beating, rape, or murder. The stakes are much higher when it comes to the need for a gun.

[Starboard Tack]

31. I agree, but it wasn't my analogy in the first place.

I'm not so sure what you mean by nobody just walks away etc.. Do you mean, regardless of physical injury, there is always a psychological component? If so, I agree. But physically, victims walk away from rapes and beatings every day with little or no physical damage. The psychological damage varies from case to case, as it also does in cases of DGU resulting in death or serious injury.

I agree the stakes are much higher when it comes to the need of a gun.

[krispos42]

56. Only prime numbers?

Interesting. 1,2,3,5,7,11?


Well, at least you can crank it to 11!


I think the back-seat thing is because you have the nice, soft, absorbent front-seat seat-backs blocking you. Instead of a pane of very tough safety glass, through which is the chrome grill of a Mac truck.

[Starboard Tack]

61. I know. The prime number thing is odd.

I think it might be more of a mental exercise. I only do this with the TV remote which goes to a hundred.

[rl6214]

88. Now I understand

[beevul]

18. My problem, is you seem to keep changing the definition, in an effort to get it to stick.

Last edited Tue Jan 3, 2012, 06:23 AM - Edit history (1)

First, the standard was "go nowhere without being armed".

Now:

"All it means is that they feel compelled by their desire, or need, to carry to ensure their personal safety."

Right. I'm sure you didn't mean it like the most common usage and meaning use of the word - "'compulsive' gambler" - for example.


The bottom line, is that right up to this very moment, you're still assigning a motivation or cause to the actions of people you know nothing about, based solely on their actions, and based not-at-all on the reasons or criteria for which they chose those actions. You are ASSUMING what their motivation is. And you're assuming that their actions are based not on choice, but compulsion. The two are generally mutually exclusive. You knew that when you used the word though. You knew exactly what you were saying, and how it would be recieved, and now you dare feign ignorance. And innocence. Its entertaining, but very transparent. As you've been told, some of us have been at this for a long long time, and have seen it before.

2 guys can go to a casino, and one blows his entire paycheck because he really and truly IS a compulsive gambler, and another does it simply because decides to, and has the spare money. Without knowing anything about either one, can you tell us, all of us, which is which? No? How come you can where gun carry is concerned then, huh? The difference between those two is stark, and now your walking it back in an effort to find some grey area between the the way you used the word and intended it to be recieved, and the warm fuzzy completely-out-of-the-ballpark way you're now claiming you meant it as. There isn't any. You're caught in a web of your own words, and its nobodys fault but yours. Anyone that cares to, can go into that other thread and see it for themself clear as day.


My main problem, is you're playing games. Semantic games. Goalpost moves. Using what is generally agreed upon to be perjorative and then swearing up and down that you mean it in only the most benevolent way, after previously having defined it otherwise by the standards you stated for the imaginary people you apply it to. Unfounded assertions and conclusions about the motivations of people you know absolutely nothing about - you've made them repeatedly. And you've stated those assertions and conclusions as if theyre fact, when no such facts have been introduced with which to support those conclusions. I can cite every single one of those things, because i've been paying attention.

Do you REALLY think nobody else has been? Really?

Insulting, and arrogant, thats what it is.

[Atypical Liberal]

30. Done and done.

Great post.

[Starboard Tack]

11. Fair enough.

Let's try that. Is there anywhere outside the home that you would not carry if it were legal to carry there?

[krispos42]

13. Assuming I carried legally and had the properly blessed and sealed permit...

...yeah, there are a bunch of places that I would not carry to. However, that does not necessary preclude me from leaving the house with a gun.

For example, my place of employment. I don't know what their policy is, but the packet the HR guy gave me (last up dated in 1995) doesn't say anything about guns. However, it's a private, casual, family business, so...???

I might carry in the car, but leave the gun in the car when I when to work. The neighborhood is okay but no more, so maybe I'd need it one day. Maybe not. Probably not.

Likewise, my family is not really pro-gun, so if I was traveling to their home I probably wouldn't carry with me, simply because I want to honor their feelings in this manner. I see no reason to pull up to, say, my aunt's house, whip out my handgun, and stuff it in the glovebox in front of my mother. Or to say to her "here, hold this while I drive".



Likewise, if I was going out to a bar, my choices are to either not carry at all, or to carry but leave the gun in the car. I'm not known for getting blitzed nor driving drunk, so probably leaving it in the car would be okay; if I can legally drive then I can't be carrying concealed while impaired, right?


How about a first date? what's her point of view? What if it gets all second-base-ish? Do I want to interrupt a tender moment with "hold on, let me secure my gun. No, not that gun. My Glock"?

Again, I'd probably leave it home unless things were more familiar.

[Starboard Tack]

15. And you have my full respect.

I find nothing irrational about your choices and applaud your sense of reality and propriety. If all were like you I, and many others, would have no issue with toting. The more extreme on either side of the issue are the problem and extremists often get to rule the day, and in doing so, fuck up the tomorrow for the rest of us.

[krispos42]

55. From my experiences with other pro-gun Gungeon regulars, they have similar opinions.

Often times we are arguing the right to do something, such as carry in a bar & grill, as opposed to what we would actually do on a day-to-day, situation-to-situation basis.

[ellisonz]

17. Ever have your car broken into?

[MicaelS]

28. That is what they make in-car gun lockboxes

Like these:

http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Secure-It-Handgun-Storage-Safe/dp/B000HBB15U

http://consolevault.com/

http://www.gunvault.com/

A responsible gun owner secures their weapon when they have to leave it behind.

[krispos42]

54. Nope.

Knock on wood!

[GreenStormCloud]

19. Yes, everywhere that it is legal to carry. N/T

[Starboard Tack]

32. Thank you for your honesty

Can you explain what rationale compels you to do that?

[GreenStormCloud]

60. Easy answer. I refuse to be an easy victim of violent crime.

Since I am already a senior citizen I look like an easy mark for young criminals. I hope my good luck continues and I am not targeted by criminals but I am ready just in case my luck runs out. A few years ago my wife was targeted twice. Both times the young tough suddenly changed his mind when he discovered that his intended victim was armed.

[one-eyed fat man]

20. Not always a firearm

http://martialhistory.com/2008/02/the-cane-as-a-weapon-1912/

Back in 1912 Lt. Commander A.C. Cunningham of the US Navy wrote a book on the use of the cane as a weapon. It is good exercise and it works. Being gray-haired and of a certain age no one looks askance if I sport a walking stick. Here is one that is rugged enough for the task and dapper enough to go with a tie and tails.

http://www.coldsteel.com/citystick.html

My Kentucky concealed deadly weapons license is not limited to a handgun. The swordcane was quite common in Victorian and Edwardian England. Of course, that was an era when a properly tempered blade was available from firms like Wilkerson, Ames, and others. Usable antiques tend to be very pricey. Fortunately, there is something besides that atrocious novelty crap from Pakistan. There is a custom maker in South Africa who makes canes of proper temper and length.

http://www.swordcane.com/

There is a reason when fencing back in school I favored saber over foil. Regardless, the local college still teaches fencing and a couple times a week it's a good low impact workout to spar with the youngsters.

I do not engage in the martial arts solely for the building of moral character, grounded ethics, sportsmanship, and fair play. If I am subject to an unprovoked attack, I mean to finish it. The sooner it is over, the less hurt I get. To that end, either because of work requirements or for personal reasons, I have been armed most times for the better part of 50 years.

[rrneck]

21. The answer to that question lies bewtween two extremes.

Very few people will expect to carry a gun absolutely everywhere they go. There are a lot of places where a firearm would be illegal or inappropriate. On the other hand, a gun is not like a pocket knife or a pair of nail clippers. It is a sizable responsibility and if it should be necessary to use it one should be able to do so with the certainty that it can be deployed and fired with skill. Maintaining that skill requires practice, and part of that practice is making it a habit to carry the firearm.

I think the vast overwhelming majority of people who are inclined to carry fall somewhere between two extremes:

1. Carry absolutely all the time for reasons other than self defense like a political statement, a clear danger as a result of persistent threats, or if they are just really into carrying a gun. The final reason should not be construed a a sign of mental illness and any word like "compulsion" is an insulting and ill informed caricature.

2. Buy the gun, complete the paperwork, and leave it home in a drawer until they think they might need it: a need that will probably never manifest itself. This is still a pretty safe country to live in.

Of the two extremes, the second one is the more dangerous. If somebody carries a gun most of the time, there is nothing to preclude them from doing any of the things an unarmed individual might do to avoid any situation where the firearm might become necessary. If they are willing to carry a gun they probably take the responsibility of doing so seriously and are proficient in it's use. On the other hand, someone who rarely if ever carries may not have enough practice either physically or mentally to carry a gun safely or actually use it when they need it.

If you own a handgun and plan to carry it having it on you even if you know you won't need it is actually safer for you and everyone around you.

[Starboard Tack]

34. There is a huge difference between compulsive behavior and mental illness

Beevul and Xdigger think I'm trying to brand compulsive toters as nutjobs. I'm really not. Maybe compulsive was a bad choice of words, but it seemed appropriate. As one who "suffers" from OCD, I often look for it in others and wonder what causes it and how it can become debilitating. I could be totally wrong on this, as I have been in the past on lots of things. Your last sentence makes a lot of sense, unfortunately.

[rrneck]

40. If someone suffers from OCD

then you should have a better understanding of the implications of the word than most people. I think you do, and I think that's why you used it. Then you got busted and started hiding behind semantics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_behavior
Compulsive behavior is behavior which a person does compulsively—in other words, not because they want to behave that way, but because they feel they have to do so.

Mental health professionals have identified signs of compulsive behavior in various disorders such as:

Obsessive–compulsive disorder – obsessive, distressing, intrusive thoughts and related compulsions which attempt to neutralize the obsessions.
Drug addiction – a condition where a person takes a drug compulsively, despite potential harm to themselves, or their desire to stop.

You have been questioning the sanity of people who carry guns from day one. It would behoove you to start dealing straight with people. Just because we're "pro RKBA" doesn't make us stupid. People have long since grown tired of being insulted then having you hide behind weasel words and "your opinion". There is a way to have a conversation with others and make a point without inserting thinly veiled insults and unarguable pleas to emotion. Show some fucking respect willya?

[Starboard Tack]

43. "You have been questioning the sanity of people who carry guns from day one."

I don't deny that. I'm not hiding behind "weasel words" either. I'm trying to understand what motivates people. And I'm getting some really good responses which are helping me understand, including some from you. Though you are not one of them, you have a fair amount of insight and I respect that.
I know what compulsive behavior is and it makes me wonder how many toters may fall into that category, if any. Questioning the sanity of gun toting is no different than questioning the sanity of any who engage in risky behavior. I'm finding that most who tote appear to be rational and sane, which I admit, surprised me.
I don't see how tough questions, including a challenge to one's sanity, is insulting. I have been the object of numerous insults in this forum, many emanating from you. Doesn't lessen my respect for you. We all cross the line occasionally. That's how we keep the debate alive. That's how we grow. Many here think I have an anti-gun agenda. They are wrong. I have been opposed to carrying handguns and even the ownership of handguns in the past. My position has changed somewhat because of conversations with people in this forum. Those with the more strident views on either side are the ones who make me question their motives. Those who cheer at a successful DGU or spam with any news item involving negative gun use represent the extreme views and are often inflammatory. The voices of reason are the ones I listen to on either side, not the zealots.

[rrneck]

57. It's real simple.

Here's the rationale:

1.People don't want to die
2.People don't want to restrict the right of others to defend themselves.
3.People enjoy precision and closure.

The first two shouldn't need explanation. The third might although for someone with OCD it shouldn't be a stretch. Some people simply enjoy living their lives with precision. They enjoy feeling like they have their shit together. Carrying a gun is no small thing and you have to really have your shit together to do it right. If you haven't noticed, not a few of the firearms enthusiasts here have a military or LEO background. Others have an interest in engineering or machine work. People who do that for a living rather enjoy doing things by the numbers and figuring close. The mindset required for firearms demands that kind of thinking.

There are very few things in this world that say closure more than a bullet leaving the muzzle of a gun. I can almost guarantee that anybody that ever carried a gun and even took it remotely seriously has considered exactly what would have to happen for them to pull the trigger. You have to think that way to do it right. You have to know the law and how it would apply under any number of circumstances. That's just part of responsible gun ownership.

Now, I'd be willing to bet that at this point you are thinking, "If people like thinking that way why does it have to involve a gun?" It doesn't necessarily have to involve a gun at all. If I really want to focus like that a gun isn't my favorite means of doing so. Nothing says focus and pay attentionto me like throwing a motorcycle into a turn and feeling that footpeg touch down. Personally I find thinking like that for extended periods of time exhausting. I'm trained as an artist and I hate numbers with a passion. What's more, I'm a process artist. That means that the process of making art is actually more important than the actual work. You can well imagine how I feel about closure. But I own guns, and I have to reconfigure my mindset to one that applies to the handling of firearms when I pick one up. The fact remains that if people enjoy thinking with precision it isn't your or my goddamn business how they go about it. Period.

[Remmah2]

23. Total carry time under 4 hours, my entire life.

Lots of transit time in the trunk going to/from the range. That's to be expected. Total time loaded, in my pocket; less than 4 hours.

[DWC]

24. "Everywhere" is an absolute

and I absolutely do not carry everywhere. I absolutely do carry almost everywhere.

I can't help myself. I am compelled by common sense.

Semper Fi,

[Starboard Tack]

63. Thank you for your honesty

Be safe and Happy New Year!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Most of the time I do

- If I am working around my property I do
- When I leave on a motorcycle, I do
- When I leave in a car/truck not so much.

My circumstances are not typical since I live out in the middle of nowhere.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

26. I pretty much have a firearm with me or in my car wherever I go.

The only exception is if I know it would be unlawful to carry where I'm going and I won't have th eopportunity to keep it my car (ie - going to a bar/party/stadium in a friend's vehicle).
Otherwise... yes, I carry pretty much everyday everywhere.

[Starboard Tack]

37. Are you saying that you would carry to a bar/party/stadium if it were legal?

Or do you choose not to carry to those places?

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. If they want to (and aren't drinking), why not?

Personally, I wouldn't carry to any of the local stadia/sports venues (if it were legal), as they are pretty safe.

[Starboard Tack]

49. I think you answered your own question

You wouldn't carry to local stadia/sports venues, as they are pretty safe. That's how I see most places, as pretty safe. No guarantees.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

64. It is legal to carry to a bar/party in ohio and somtimes I do. If I plan on drinking.. I don't.

If it's legal to carry somewhere, I don't see the propblem doing so.
I keep mine concealed and i's typically a small pistol so it's discreet.

[michreject]

27. Yes

I put it on when I get up in the morning and take it off when I go to bed.

Lounging around at home, I have a Kahr P380 in my front pocket.

[Starboard Tack]

38. Can you explain your rationale for doing that?

[michreject]

48. Because I can

No other reason needed.

I'm not being curt, just answering honestly.

[Starboard Tack]

50. That's your entire rationale for wearing a gun? Because you can?

Not because you need to, or want to, just because you can? Fascinating. Is there anything else you do just because you can? I'm being serious here. I am truly interested in understanding your mindset.

[michreject]

65. If I get an urge to do something, and it's not illegal, I do it

One of the benefits of living in a free society.

[Starboard Tack]

66. So you are compelled by your urges, provided they are legal?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

76. Isn't everybody, whom acts of their own free will, compelled by their urges?

[Starboard Tack]

77. Yes indeed. Thank you

Some here, like our friends Beevul and XDigger seem to think that when I use the word compulsive it implies a mental disorder. I don't even think obsessive compulsive is a mental disorder, unless and until it becomes debilitating in some way. When it comes to carrying a gun, I think it is very important to understand one's motives for doing so.

[beevul]

78. "Compulsive toter", meet "compulsive gambling"

What Is Compulsive Gambling?
Moderate gambling, like moderate alcohol use, is an accepted part of our culture and causes no problems. As with alcohol use, however, gambling to excess is a common weakness that may lead to serious security problems.

Compulsive gambling, or pathological gambling as most psychiatrists prefer to call it, is an inability to stop gambling even when one recognizes that gambling is causing serious financial, family, work, or other problems.

Compulsive gambling parallels alcohol and drug addiction in many ways. Compulsive gamblers lose control over their behavior and commonly lie and cheat in order to continue their gambling. They frequently try, unsuccessfully, to cut down or quit.

Compulsive gambling does not involve use of a psychoactive substance, but the "action" which compulsive gamblers crave is an aroused, euphoric state comparable to the "high" sought by drug users. This aroused state is accompanied by changes in brain chemistry similar to those caused by alcohol or drugs. There may be a "rush," often characterized by sweaty palms, rapid heart beat, and nausea which is experienced during the period of anticipation.

Alcoholics and drug abusers develop "tolerance" for their drug of choice and then must increase their consumption in order to feel the same effects. Similarly, compulsive gamblers develop "tolerance" for the "action" and must increase the size of their bets or the odds against them to create the same amount of excitement.

http://www.wright.edu/rsp/Security/Eap/Gamble.htm

Do you really expect anyone to believe that the negative connotation generally percieved with that usage of the phrase, was unintended, after that way you've made other utterances of things with clearly negative connotations, which were very obviously deliberate - toward a certain demographic/s hereabouts?


"When it comes to carrying a gun, I think it is very important to understand one's motives for doing so."

Well, then, the million dollar question:

Why is it then, that you were applying the term "compulsive toter" to people who had shown no evidence of being such, before ever bothering to inquire as to the motivations of the people you applied it to?

Or did it just become important, now that you've been called on it?

[Starboard Tack]

84. Excellent points you make.

First, let me confess my initial ignorance, when I first started participating on this board, about what motivates people to tote guns on a regular basis. I have learned a lot since then and my position has changed somewhat. I used to think they were all loonies. I no longer think that. It has become apparent that people tote for different reasons. Some, because they feel the need to be in a constant state of preparedness against a possible attack, regardless of where they are or in whose company they are. Others employ a degree of reality testing, relevant to their need to tote, or the appropriateness in certain places.

The responses, as you can see, are all over the place. But it is clear that a few are compelled to carry everywhere it is legal. Others are quite discriminating. You make the point that compulsive toting is comparable to compulsive gambling. I think that is unclear. I have known some compulsive gamblers and was involved in researching that phenomenon, many years ago, with a writer friend. Compulsive gambling is an impulse control disorder and is self destructive. Obviously, there are gun owners who suffer from such pathologies, but I would say the majority do not. It is a serious psychological disorder and not a subject for discussion here.

My use of the words compel, compulsive, habitual are an attempt to learn how individuals operate in distinctly different ways in similar environments. Few of our friends here seem to take offense at my choice of words. I do not find the practice of habitual/compulsive toting, in itself, to be a mental disorder. I find it eccentric, but we all have our eccentricities.

I hope you have been as enlightened as much as I have by the responses of our fellow members.

[Glassunion]

81. I would think the same way.

If you use the word compulsive to describe a specific behavior, it would imply to me a mental disorder.

Compulsive behavior is a mental disorder regardless if its result would be harmful. It is defined by a person doing something not because they want to behave that way, but because they feel they have to do so or to mitigate the anxiety that stems from particular obsessive thoughts. The person's reasoning is so idiosyncratic or distorted that it results in significant distress for the individual regardless if the activity is physically harmful or not.

Saying someone is a "compulsive toter" or "carries compulsively" is stating that they have a behavioral disorder.

Perhaps you intend a different word than you are saying? Maybe habitual?

[Starboard Tack]

85. I used the word compulsive in it's literal sense.

You can interpret it however you like. To me, compulsive behavior means being compelled to do something out of habit, desire, fear, need, superstition, whatever, to the point that it is involuntary and when it is not possible, causes a degree of discomfort.

[iverglas]

80. "because I can"

I can take a bus downtown and get off by the river and go jump off a bridge.

And yet I never have.

Y'know why?

I've just never had a reason to.


No other reason needed.

As I'm sure you're just as aware as anyone else is, it isn't a reason.

So it's not that there is no other reason needed, it's that if you choose to state a reason, then you need to state one.

[spin]

29. I obviously do not carry when I enter a restricted area...

In Florida those areas are:

any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
any courtroom*
any polling place
any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
any school administration building
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
any elementary or secondary school facility
any area technical center
any college or university facility*
inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/possession.html

When I visit a doctor and that visit may involve a physical exam, I do not carry a firearm into his/her office. Some of my specialists are 30 or more miles from my house so I do carry to and from their office and leave the firearm in the car while in the office. My GP is two blocks from my house, so I don't bother to carry. (I'm retired so now I don't have to worry about company policies that forbid firearms in the workplace.)

Otherwise it's very rare for me not to be carrying. I went through the expense and the time to get a concealed weapons permit in order to be able to carry a firearm; therefore it would be a waste of time and money not to leave my handgun home in the safe.

Originally when I first got my license 15 years ago, I will admit that I rarely carried. A co-worker who had a permit talked me into getting one. He knew that I have a lead foot when I drive and I always have a loaded handgun in my car which is legal in Florida without a license. Although I am a professional speeder I had to agree with him that there was always a chance that I could be pulled over. He mentioned that if a cop were to ask me if I had a firearm in my car, things would move along much more smoothly if I also had a carry permit. His argument made sense but since at the time most of my handguns were large and heavy I rarely carried concealed.

After several years, I decided to buy a much lighter and more compact handgun which would be far easier to conceal in the Florida heat and more comfortable to carry. S&W came out with a new version of their Airweight snub nosed revolver that was rated for .38+P ammo. I bought the double action only version which is designed primarily to be carried in a pocket holster as it lacks the hammer of other models that might snag while being drawn from your pocket.


S&W Model 642

One time after practicing at the range I had a conversation with the range master. When he asked me how often I carried I replied, "I carry mainly when I travel into bad areas."

He proceeded to chew my ass. He said, "The state of Florida in its wisdom has decided to grant you a permit to carry a firearm. It wasn't just because you've got money or connections like in so many other states. You and any honest person who can pass the background check, has the training and pays the fee can get a permit. That's why it is called "shall issue."

He continued, "The state wants more honest people carrying concealed firearms in public to cut down on the crime rate and it has worked in Florida. But it only works if those with the permit carry everywhere they legally can."

He finished by adding, "Now I have watched you shoot that little revolver and I'm confident that you could use it accurately if necessary. I don't want to pick up the newspaper and read that you were shot and killed and were unarmed and I don't want to have you come in here and whine to me about how you could have saved your ass or another person if only you would have had your gun with you."

That's why I carry.

[Starboard Tack]

35. Great answer. Thanks

And a Happy New Year

[spin]

41. Same back to you and yours. (n/t)

[Starboard Tack]

51. Question for you. What is a place of nuisance?

[ileus]

33. I only carry legally

I respect my privileges to carry and the second, I always do what's right.

[Starboard Tack]

36. Thanks for responding.

Do you always carry, when legal?

[ileus]

53. I'd say about 80 or 85% of the time.

I've bought the smallest gun in the smallest caliber I'm willing to carry.

[oneshooter]

39. I carry most of the time. Tomorrow I won't as I am to escort my MOM to a

hospital to get her back brace removed(hopefully). I will go to her nursing home( no 30.06 posted) and ride the ambulance with her downtown to Herman Hospital. Stay with her during the x-ray and exam, and then ride back to the nursing home with her.
Normally I either have a revolver or carbine with me when I am out on the property(20 acres) and a SIG 220 IWB carried concealed when off.
My wife carries concealed when off property, and has her M94 Winny Trapper with her otherwise.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

44. Is there anywhere you wouldn't carry, if it were legal?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

46. If it were legal to do so

Why would I not carry? It isn't like carrying a firearm is disrespectful or harmful in and of itself.

[oneshooter]

47. Can't think of any right offhand. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

52. Thanks, and I hope your Mom does well.

And a Happy New Year to you and yours

[oneshooter]

59. We will know more tomorrow. Have a happy New Year, ya'll. n/t

[Simo 1939_1940]

42. Inasmuch as I live in a may issue (read *corrupt issue*) state I never carry.

At such time when the law allows - and it's only a matter of time until it does - I see myself carrying on a regular basis.

Although crime in my county is at record lows, the city where I live hasn't seen the benefit of any violent crime decrease. Not only that, I've had some very tense experiences with some extremely unstable people through no fault or provocation on my part. Luckily, I was not harmed - but I'd really rather not rely on luck if I don't have to.

[armueller2001]

62. I carry whenever I'm not at work or drinking.

I also do not carry when prohibited by law, such as at a professional sporting event. If there is a business posted with a proper 30.06 sign, I will respect that businesses wishes and not spend my money there.

[Glassunion]

68. I don't deal in absolutes.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

70. You will not stop me!

Darth Hoyt will become more powerful than either of us!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

69. I live in New Jersey.

New Jersey is a 'may issue' state. Just so they can maintain that status, the state has actually issued just under 1000 permits to private citizens. I'm not one of them.

[Starboard Tack]

71. Are you saying you would if NJ allowed it?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

72. I would say probably.

I work from home most of the time so I am out much less than most people. I travel to my office about every three weeks and that involves a commercial flight to LAX. I'm a contractor not an employee and I also don't know CA laws. I don't check baggage so I wouldn't be bringing a gun with me.

[Fourier]

82. I don't always carry one out to the mailbox.

It's a good 50 yards from home.

[Starboard Tack]

83. Are you saying you carry everywhere else besides your mailbox?

If so, I'm curious as to why not to the mailbox also?

[Old Codger]

109. Always

everywhere it is legal to carry

[fightthegoodfightnow]

110. What's it like to live

...in fear all the time that necessitates the need to carry?

[Starboard Tack]

116. I wouldn't know, having never carried a handgun outside of a range.

Any ideas?

[Starboard Tack]

122. I don't have a clue. I don't carry, ever.

Ask someone who does. You won't find many here who will admit that and I don't think most who carry do live in fear all the time. Each has hi/her own reasons why they carry. Obviously, they have all arrived at some justification for doing so. The fear mongers are the extremists on each side of the gun issue, because fear is like sex, it sells well. Always did. Check your TV and movie listings for confirmation of that.

[E6-B]

126. My dead neighbor is a fear monger.

She appeared to be a nice gal. Never had a chance to know her, just ended up dead outside the gate one morning. Victim of a drug deal gone bad in a different part of town, but killers dropped her off at the gate for some reason. Several months later found out she died a slow horrible death.

[Starboard Tack]

127. Why do you say a murder victim is a fear monger?

Is there a point to your gruesome tail?

[E6-B]

142. Fear mongering.

The dead girl is a fear monger becaue she is part of the cycle of fear that convinced me to carry a gun. Should I stop paying attention to fear mongers and do what is right for society and not be afraid of dead bodies that show up around the gate?

[Starboard Tack]

143. So you decided to join that cycle of fear?

Because some girl was killed in a drug deal gone bad? I thought I'd seen some sick shit in this forum, but you take the prize.

[E6-B]

144. Drug dealers choose to find my house

I didn't join the cycle. The cycle found me. I didn't choose to play with murderers, they came to my house.

[benEzra]

120. Not everywhere, no.

I carry a lot, but not everywhere and not all the time. I do happen to be carrying at the moment.

Of course, those who don't like carry licensure would undoubtedly prefer I not carry anywhere or at any time (with the possible exception of the shooting range), and tend to support legislating in that direction regardless.

[Starboard Tack]

121. I'm not big on legislating either way.

I think it makes little difference, if any. It's more important that you think about what you're doing, in my mind, not the legality of it. A wise man doesn't do things just because it's legal to do them. He does things by making conscious, valid decisions.

[benEzra]

123. I agree. (n/t)

[Starboard Tack]

128. Where don't you carry?

[E6-B]

125. Only at night 100% of the time.

[YllwFvr]

129. i will be carrying into a high school later today at a basketball game.

But I doubt anyone will care, even though it will be Open Carried

[Starboard Tack]

132. Good for you. I assume you are a cop.

Do you carry everywhere you go?

[YllwFvr]

134. mostly

Perhaps 90% of the time.

[Starboard Tack]

135. What places constitute the other 10%?

[YllwFvr]

138. family or a few friends

Who dislike firearms. Also the mall. No firearms signs on the doors. They hold no legal weight but I respect private property right.

[Starboard Tack]

139. Glad to hear you're a reasonable man, respecting others wishes.

[Callisto32]

130. No.

I am an attorney, as such I am frequently found in courthouses.

[Starboard Tack]

131. Is that the only place you don't carry?

And would you carry in court if permitted?
BTW, I would probably carry if I were an attorney. Definitely if I practiced criminal law. That's what I would consider discriminate carrying. High risk profession.

[TPaine7]

136. How about high risk gender?

I've read that something like 10-30% of women are sexually assaulted or raped. Isn't that a high risk factor?

Shouldn't the high-risk gender be allowed to carry?

[Starboard Tack]

137. As long as cops carry, everybody should be allowed to carry if they are mentally competent.

Convicted felons without a violent past and illegal aliens should not be excluded either. The decision to do so is another matter. I would prefer a society where nobody carried a gun. How we get there without stepping on people's rights is the big question.

[TPaine7]

140. Wow, I largely agree.

I agree that non-violent felonies shouldn't disqualify with few exceptions (I would say treason and statutory rape for example).

Illegal aliens carrying is a different issue, however. I'm unsure of where I stand on that.

I'm shocked by what I read. Our ideas are closer than I thought.

I wouldn't want to live in a society where no one carried, unless no one robbed, raped, kidnapped or killed either. I don't want the big, the fast, the ruthless, the criminal to be able to look at the smaller, the slower, the older, the milder and the law abiding and know, to a near certainty, that they can do anything they please to them. I want to complicate their calculations.

[Starboard Tack]

141. There you go. You see, we're not that far apart.

Your ideal society is one shared by most of us, I'm sure. Where we differ is how we get there. My philosophy is to live by example. Your philosophy is to fight fire with fire and level the playing field. Not bad on the surface and makes some sense, especially in the short term. Unfortunately, that method will reach a point where the law of diminishing returns will kick in, creating a kind of stalemate and new status quo.
That, in itself, may bring us to a point where violent crime is down, regardless of any evidence, one way or the other, as to whether gun proliferation is a contributing factor. Now, the country is saturated with firearms and more and more people are carrying hand guns.
So far, so good, yet further away from our ultimate goal. Then something major happens, the shit hits the fan, politically, economically, environmentally, terrorist attacks, flu epidemic, whatever. The whole dynamic changes and we have a heavily armed, disorganized populace. All the ingredients for sectarian warfare, class warfare and/or anarchy.
I'm neither a conspiracy theorist, nor a doomsday predictor, on the contrary. I don't think carrying more guns today is the answer and I don't think imposing more gun control is the answer. Both are extremist IMO and serve to distract us from what we really need to be doing, which is coming together and figuring out how to re-float this country and it's economy for the long term. Spreading fear, which both sides do, along with many other fear mongers, is never going to help us move forward. Fear divides us and makes a few people very rich and very powerful.
I'm optimistic that we can survive and thrive by working hard and being imaginative in terms of renewable energy and reining in our insatiable appetite for consumer goods. Introducing more guns has no role in my plan. I find it divisive and it presents more of an obstacle. Also, I fear an eventual backlash from the right like after 9/11, and the loss of even more individual rights. I don't know if we're being set up or we're setting ourselves up. Maybe both.

[Callisto32]

147. This Starboard Tack makes more sense than the old one...

I like this Starboard Tack more.

I kind of agree. I wish we had a society where nobody HAD to carry a gun, for...negative social encounters. However, even if that pipe dream were possible, we would still have the issue of people who live in areas with large, aggressive wildlife. I would not deprive an Alaskan of a large revolver, eh?

[Callisto32]

146. I know it's been a while, but...here's a reply.

Yes, if law allowed me to continue to go armed (as do the sheriff's deputies, et cetera) while in a courthouse, I would.

No, it is not the only place I do not carry, as those places include all places where it would be illegal or imprudent to do so. Like most people with a LTCF (PA's title for CCW permit) sometimes I am just flat lazy and don't want to go to the hassle of putting on a belt when I'm walking halfway around the block to the post office (another place where I don't carry, if going inside) box.

My reply was just a simple one intended to answer the question "do you carry everywhere?".