Two shot, one fatally, at Don's Guns in Indianapolis

[SecularMotion]

INDIANAPOLIS -- One person was killed and another was injured in an early-afternoon shooting at Don’s Guns and Galleries on the Indianapolis Westside, police said.

Ttwo people were shot about 12:21p.m. at the gun shop, 3807 Lafayette Road, Indianapolis Metropolitan police spokesman Officer Michael Hewitt said

Police outside the store said it's possible customers were in the store during the shooting, but it could not be confirmed.

No information was immediately available on the identities of the people shot, or the condition of the survivor.

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20120917/NEWS06/120917012

[Missycim]

1. No need of google

with SM around

[SecularMotion]

2. Hi stalker

[Missycim]

4. Calling me a stalker would denote I cared about you, I don't, outside

of just mocking you. You have a nice day now you hear?

[rl6214]

33. Wow , now you're a stalker too...

Suckularmotion has so many stalkers, all of whom happen to comment on his/her google dumps.

I'm still stalker #1 though

[Missycim]

34. We should start a SM stalker group in DU

[rl6214]

37. I'm in but there are only about 5 of us that I know of

There needs to be 10 in order to start a new group.

[aikoaiko]

16. No need to troll your own thread.

Aren't you getting enough attention?

[SecularMotion]

17. Thanks for the kick

[aikoaiko]

18. You should make some sock puppets to respond to your OPs.

Its noticeable just how few anti-RKBA types support your threads.

[SecularMotion]

35. No need for sock puppets

I have a swarm of NRAbots who kick my threads.

[bongbong]

26. Careful!

The Delicate Flowers are on the warpath today!

[aikoaiko]

36. Poor bongbong.

[BlueStreak]

3. One of 5 worst gun dealers nationwide

An average of more than one gun per day recovered in a crime.

http://www.wthr.com/story/4942752/dons-guns-named-among-top-five-dealers-selling-guns-to-criminals

There was a bad shooting at their Greenwood, In store a few years back, but I can't find an article about that.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Also one of the largest gun sellers nationally.

All of their sales have NICS checks done. They can't control what happens afterward. If you sell more guns than anybody else, and the same percentage of guns are resold to criminals, then you are going to have more guns from your store used in crime.

Of course, your real desire is to shut down all gun stores.

[BlueStreak]

7. Please cite evidence of that

He has one dinky store in a run down part of Indianapolis. He used to have 2 stores, but closed the other one after a similar shooting.

Please provide evidence that this is one of the largest dealers in the country. I seriously doubt that.

One of the sleaziest dealers? Yeah, no doubt about that.

[bongbong]

27. Don't you know the rules of the gungeon?

Delicate Flowers (the members of the DU Gun Lobby) never have to prove anything they claim.

Liberals have to prove every single thing they say, even if it's "the sky is blue"

[GreenStormCloud]

30. Here is where I read it:

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20120918/NEWS06/120918005

Don’s Guns is the city’s highest profile firearms retailer, due in part to its colorful founder and his advertising motto: “I don’t want to make money. I just love to sell guns.”

Gun-control advocates cite Don’s Guns for the number of weapons traced back to the store that were used in crimes. A 2010 Washington Post investigation found Don’s Guns ranked third among the country’s firearm retailers, with 1,910 crime-related guns traced back to the shop in the previous four years.

An earlier study by a gun-control organization found that Don’s ranked second in such sales from 1996 to 2000, with 2,294 guns turning up illegally.

Davis made no apologies in response. He said the problem comes when guns are resold on the street or at gun shows. He also said it’s logical that more guns are traced back to his store than others because he is one of the leading sellers.

It is rather difficult to be a high profile dealer and still be a low volume dealer. If you have proof that he is a low volume dealer, then provide it. The number of cars you once saw in his parking lot isn't proof.

If he is doing something shady, the feds would have shut him down long ago. High profile dealers also attract attention from the feds. If a customer passes the NICS check then there isn't a whole lot the store can do. The clerks there can't read minds.

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Gun shop employee returns fire on customer, killing him

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20120918/NEWS06/120918005

Police have released few details about what happened, but owner Don Davis said detectives told him that a man walked into his gun store at 3807 Lafayette Road shortly before 12:20 p.m. and asked a clerk to rent a gun. Shortly after — without a word — the man used the gun to shoot the clerk. The clerk fired back, killing the customer police have identified as Brian C. Wayner, 26, 8700 block of Gargany Lane.

Davis said his employee, Ben Chance, was in critical condition at a hospital Monday but was expected to survive.

Davis said Wayner rented a gun in the showroom and went to the attached shooting range where he fired three boxes of ammunition. Afterward, he went to the restroom to wash his hands and walked back out to the counter in the store area. Chance was giving Wayner his total when — without saying anything — Wayner suddenly fired shots at the clerk, Davis said. It was unclear where he was shot.

MORE INFO AT LINK

So a violent criminal shot a clerk and was killed in self-defense by the clerk. SM should post more details, as well as make some kind of comment.

[glacierbay]

8. SM can't have that

it would change the whole aspect of the story from his anti position to a pro gun position.
The headline is very misleading and I'm glad you posted more, which changes the direction from what SM was trying to allude to.

[4th law of robotics]

10. I like that they try to blame his gun store for being the cause of so much gun violence

because a lot of guns he sold are used in crimes.

They also cite the fact that his store is one of the largest in the country and sells more guns than any other store in the state.

So . . . yeah obviously. That's like saying Ford, GM, and Toyota are responsible for the vast majority of drunk driving incidents since most drunk drivers use one of those cars.

[4th law of robotics]

9. Out of curiosity, do you (the OP) support a total ban on guns?

Except for police and military of course.

You seem to be conveying that message.

[BlueStreak]

13. Out of curiosity, do you think there are any bad gun dealers?

[4th law of robotics]

14. Yes.

Do you believe there are any legitimate reasons to use strawmen arguments?

[BlueStreak]

19. That isn't a straw man. You defended a guy who was among the wiorst 5 dealers

in the country. It is a fair question whether you believe there is even such a thing as a bad gun dealer.

Look, I have to live in the same city with this asshole, with more than one of his guns being used in a crime every day.

[4th law of robotics]

20. How is he "among the worst"?

Does he break the law? Or does he just sell more guns than most? If he were shut down would gun violence cease? Or would other gun dealers increase their sales to cover the demand?

Besides you asked a general question (are there bad gun dealers) and used as proof of my believes a specific instance (is this one guy a bad gun dealer).

Like saying if you feel one person is innocent of murder you must believe no one is guilty of murder ever.

/if your town had one liquor store then 100% of drunk drivers in that town would be using his products and he would be selling a lot of liquor. If you shut him down and 10 liquor stores started up each selling a tenth of the amount he was leading to no net change in total liquor consumption would that solve the problem? Did he cause drunk driving?

[BlueStreak]

21. The guy has one store. I drive by there several times a week.

It is a not a high volume store. There are usually fewer than 5 cars in front, and the store includes a firing range.

This cannot be anywhere near the top tier of gun dealers by volume.

Yet he is on the list of the worst 5 on the basis of how many of the guns he sold are subsequently recovered in crimes.

If he is not a bad dealer, then there is no such thing as a bad dealer.

[4th law of robotics]

22. That's anecdotal

I've been to a Walmart before that had a nearly empty parking lot. Clearly they cannot be the largest retailer in the country.

The article says his store is the leading store in the county in total sales. If so it makes perfect sense that more of his guns would be used in crimes. Also more would be stored safely. Or used as paper-weights. Or any damn qualifier because he sold more than his competition.

Unless you can cite anything he's doing that's illegal or even immoral other than selling guns and doing well at it you really can't call him a bad dealer.

[gejohnston]

24. why do they still have their license?

do they have poorly trained staff that can't spot a straw purchase? Poor security? Do they have poor inventory control? If so, why do they still have their FFL? There was a pawn shop in the next town that lost their FFL and the owner went to prison because half assed inventory control. Guns were being logged in as being purchased but no 4473s showing them being sold, and the ATF inspector could not find them in the safe or display case.

Details like that matter.

Another question to as is what is the purchase to crime scene time for Don's Guns? The national average is 11.2 years, the Indiana average is 9.4 years.

[BlueStreak]

25. Evidently you don't lose you license based on how many of your guns are used in crimes

[glacierbay]

28. That's correct

once the firearm is legally purchased, the gun store has no control how it is used nor should they have any liability. Anti gun cities tried to sue gun manufacturer's out of business by suing them for how the weapon was used, congress, in response to these asinine lawsuits, passed a law that protects firearms manufacturer's from frivilous lawsuits.
Would you support a law that held car dealers responsible for drunk drivers using the vehicle they sold to them?

[gejohnston]

29. you lose it based on illegal acts by you.

The idea of being legally responsible for something you have no control over is not how we do things, nor should it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Nor should they

Does the store follow the law is and should be the only determinant there. What others do down stream is not something they can control

Since you are harping on numbers, clearly what percentage of sales is more important than raw number of guns used in crimes. If there were 100 guns used in a crime really says nothing. What would matter would be if the total sales were 1000 or 100,000. How long between purchase and being part of a crime would also be enlightening.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Your interlocutor is either not grokking or refusing to acknowledge the point you and others...

...have made.

[ileus]

11. another righteous SD shooting.

Hope the clerk recovers soon and returns to their job.

[4th law of robotics]

12. Judging by what they said of the owner the clerk may go back to a promotion.

[Atypical Liberal]

15. What is it you wish to debate about this subject?

I see a news article posted, but what are we supposed to take away from it?

That sometimes crimes are committed with guns, even in gun stores?

OK. So?

[4th law of robotics]

23. I think the idea is that enough anecdotes can outweigh actual statistics

and I suppose they can; once they reach numbers that make them . . . actually statistics.

Instead he's posting these occasional shootings in an attempt to challenge national data collected over decades that shows more guns do not lead to more crimes.

It's like a CEO for Phillip-Morris routinely calling a press conference to announce that yet another long time smoker reached a ripe old age and died of something completely unrelated to tobacco use.

Yeah, it's probably true. But it doesn't overturn the years and years of studies showing that generally that is not the case.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. UPDATE: Clerk will not be prosecuted, ruled self-defense.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Self-defense-found-in-fatal-Indy-gun-shop-shooting-3890441.php

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Prosecutors in Indianapolis say a gun store employee who fatally shot a customer who had shot him first acted in self-defense under Indiana law and won't face charges.

A spokeswoman for the Marion County Prosecutor's Office said Monday that it made the decision after reviewing video surveillance evidence and statements from employees and another customer in the fatal shooting of 26-year-old Brian Wayner.

Owner Don Davis of Don's Guns and Galleries has identified the employee as Ben Chance. Chance was critically wounded but is expected to recover.

Davis has said Chance was shot after presenting the customer with his bill for using a shooting range.