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Texas serial killer with badge gets a 3 day administrative suspension for killing double amputee (Original Post) Starboard Tack Sep 2012 OP
excessive force anyone? gejohnston Sep 2012 #1
Says he was inches to a foot away. Go figure. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Sep 2012 #4
I would think ... holdencaufield Sep 2012 #7
You must be confusing me with another. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #9
I read the BBC article Reasonable_Argument Sep 2012 #18
Gun Crime in England ... holdencaufield Sep 2012 #19
Well, that's where we disagree. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #20
" Classic fear mongering." Something like "serial killer cop"? oneshooter Sep 2012 #21
That's hyperbole, not fear mongering. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #23
Yeah, unless hes from tejas. Nt Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #27
In a situation such as that, a half-second delay can get you killed. DollarBillHines Sep 2012 #3
In what way is he a"serial killer". oneshooter Sep 2012 #5
"Serial killer" and "gets a ... suspension for" are both ill-chosen phrases, petronius Sep 2012 #6
OMG did I use sensationalism to get your attention? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #11
"Serial killer" has a specific meaning. "Got a suspension for" generally refers petronius Sep 2012 #12
That's better. Thank you. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #15
This one was the second in the series. The guy is a 5 year veteran. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #10
He should be charged for murder former-republican Sep 2012 #8
Serial killer? Jenoch Sep 2012 #13
But to call the cop a 'serial killer' is beyond comprehension. Clames Sep 2012 #14
It got your attention though. What don't you comprehend exactly? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #16
This is merely your opinion... Clames Sep 2012 #17
I'm sure their families agree with me. You've reached a new low. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #22
Feeling is mutual. Clames Sep 2012 #25
You cannot be serious about Jenoch Sep 2012 #24
He expects LEO's to admonish the potential murderer with a stern voice... Clames Sep 2012 #26
The second amendment has nothing to do with arming government officials. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #28

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
1. excessive force anyone?
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:48 PM
Sep 2012

Cops are held to a lower standard than a private citizen when it comes to justifiable homicide. What else is new? If you think the cop would land up on trial in San Francisco, I don't think so. At least that is not the impression I got when I was there in the mid 1990s, and much of my news came from the local Pacifica station (it was the only radio signal that could get through the vault that was my office.)
I think hyperbole is the word I'm looking for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

Perhaps a cop can explain why use a pistol instead of taser or spray against someone with a knife? Both have more range than a blade.

Could the office tell it was a pen, or was he too far to see what it was?
Oh wait,

Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer in his wheelchair and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen. At the time, the officer did not know what the metal object was that the man was waving, Silva said.

She said the man came "within inches to a foot" of the officer and did not follow instructions to calm down and remain still.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
2. Says he was inches to a foot away. Go figure.
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:55 PM
Sep 2012

And no, I don't think cops in SF are necessarily any different. Lets see how this shakes out and if they put this killer back on the street with his badge and gun.

Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #2)

 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
7. I would think ...
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:24 PM
Sep 2012

... someone who believes so strongly that everyone should outsource their personal protection to the state would have more respect for the men and women who provide that protection.

I would hope that if you're ever in a situation where you are required to call upon the police for protection, you will have the good manners to hide your disdain.

But, in any case, sworn officers will do their civic duty, even if you don't treat them in a civil manner.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
9. You must be confusing me with another.
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:00 PM
Sep 2012

I'm a strong believer in individual responsibility, which includes a social conscience. I do not support the routine arming of LE with sidearms. I'm OK with a shotgun and secured pistols in a patrol car for use when necessary, but the routine carrying of handguns only contributes to civilians arming themselves and the bad guys, many of whom would not carry if cops didn't.

 
18. I read the BBC article
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 08:01 AM
Sep 2012

That showed the majority of British police officers share your opinion. Personally, I think it's dangerously naive. Culturally we're very different from England and if you disarm the police you better start buying large quantities of body bags because I'll bet my bottom dollar our criminals won't disarm.

 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
19. Gun Crime in England ...
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 09:24 AM
Sep 2012

... has been steadily rising even since the passing of draconian gun restrictions in 1997. More than 15,000 gun related crimes in 2010 alone.

The authorization to arm police has been in and out of fashion in the UK for over 150 years -- it will come into vogue after incidences where police officers are murdered and just as quickly go out again after incidences where civilians are shot. As a matter of fact, many officers (nearly 7,000) in the UK are armed while going about their daily duties.

Disarming police officers in the US would have a two-fold effect, first it would see the slaughter of many a fine officer and second cause the resignation and failure to retain other officers who would otherwise gladly lay their lives on the line to protect the public. Many are happy to lay their lives on the line (even for an ungrateful public) but to ask them to do it without the means to even defend themselves is too much to ask of anyone.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
20. Well, that's where we disagree.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 11:22 AM
Sep 2012

And of course, you never know until you try something. I've heard the "body bags" argument and don't buy it. Classic fear mongering. In fact, I would lay any money on the homicide rate dropping substantially. We are not that different culturally. In fact the Brits tend to be considerably more violent.
Criminals won't disarm until they consider it to their advantage.

DollarBillHines

(1,922 posts)
3. In a situation such as that, a half-second delay can get you killed.
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 08:08 PM
Sep 2012

You can compare it to close-quarters combat. Going for a Taser or spray could cost you your life.

Events such as this are a damned shame, but shit simply happens in the real world.

Try to put yourself in the cop's shoes. Try to visualize the setting, the noise, adrenaline and a crazy mofo who you think is going to stab you. That is a living nightmare.

petronius

(26,581 posts)
6. "Serial killer" and "gets a ... suspension for" are both ill-chosen phrases,
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:00 PM
Sep 2012

which is odd when you consider that there are threads in GD and LBN with more accurate subject lines, both of which ST posted in before he started this one...

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
11. OMG did I use sensationalism to get your attention?
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:09 PM
Sep 2012

Shame on me.
So, what do you think about it? Or do you want to talk about me and how "odd" I am? Maybe you'd like to expand on why you consider them ill-chosen phrases.

petronius

(26,581 posts)
12. "Serial killer" has a specific meaning. "Got a suspension for" generally refers
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:58 PM
Sep 2012

to a sanction (which this isn't). They're ill-chosen because you've constructed a sentence that suggests a murderer received a slap on the wrist as punishment for his latest crime, by virtue of his position. Less accurate and more misleading than what's in GD, LBN, or at the article. I actually don't think you're odd, I think this is just another episode of a little game you like to play here.

As for the story, what's to discuss? Based on the articles, an apparently poor decision led to a horrific outcome, I'm hard-pressed to imagine that it was necessary - but that's what an investigation is for. If the investigation goes against the officer, serious sanctions would be called for...

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
15. That's better. Thank you.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:28 AM
Sep 2012

The reason I posted it here is because not all who frequent the gungeon go elsewhere and may miss a gun related post. I should probably have cross-posted with links to the other threads.
I'll give you points on the suspension/punishment thing. I was off on that one, carried away with the sensational aspects of the story. However, I'm not yet ready to concede on the "serial killer" thing. How many do you need to constitute a series, by the same person, with the same MO. I don't know. Is there a magic number? It might be a touch of hyperbole, but why not technically accurate? And it is the political season.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
10. This one was the second in the series. The guy is a 5 year veteran.
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 11:04 PM
Sep 2012

What kind of 3 strike rule do you have in Texas? Next one gets him a permanent desk job?

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
13. Serial killer?
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:21 AM
Sep 2012

It sure sounds like the first shoot was well within the acceptable boundaries by any judgement. The cop shot a guy as the suspect was stabbing somebody to death. If that is not justifiable by anybody's judgement, well, they are not living in reality. The story about the second shooting does not provide enough information to determine guilt or innocence, even if all of the facts provided are accurate. It's an unfortunate situation. But to call the cop a 'serial killer' is beyond comprehension.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
14. But to call the cop a 'serial killer' is beyond comprehension.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:50 AM
Sep 2012

Not really, OP has a long history of such posts.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
16. It got your attention though. What don't you comprehend exactly?
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 02:41 AM
Sep 2012

So, how is serial killer defined? Let's see

A serial killer is traditionally defined as an individual who has killed three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period&quot between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.
Some sources, such as the FBI, disregard the "three or more" criteria, and define the term as "a series of two or more murders, committed as separate events, usually, but not always, by one offender acting alone" or, including the vital characteristics, a minimum of two murders. Often, a sexual element is involved in the killings, but the FBI states that motives for serial murder include "anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking". The murders may have been attempted or completed in a similar fashion and the victims may have had something in common, for example, occupation, race, appearance, sex, or age group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer


When does he officially qualify, at number 3 or 4? Sounds to me that neither killing was necessary, because this cop doesn't appear to consider using less lethal options, or maybe he's mentally challenged. I dunno, we'll see.
 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
17. This is merely your opinion...
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 03:35 AM
Sep 2012
Sounds to me that neither killing was necessary, because this cop doesn't appear to consider using less lethal options, or maybe he's mentally challenged.


...and you, for some reason, seem to have problems grasping that the person he shot in the 2009 incident was in the process of murdering his neighbor. Better idea: why don't you take your opinion about armed LEOs to the families of these two ladies.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/279655/2-uk-police-women-die.html

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
22. I'm sure their families agree with me. You've reached a new low.
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 11:32 AM
Sep 2012

These brave women were from my home town, where many of us are grieving over this incident. BTW, I find your posts truly disgusting and will be ignoring you from now on. Congrats, you're the first. I've encountered some real pieces of work here in the past, but you take the cake.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
24. You cannot be serious about
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sep 2012

the first incident in which this police officer shot and killed a suspect. That happened WHILE the suspect was stabbing his neighbor with a knife. What did you wish the officer to do INSTEAD of shooting him?

Did you emigrate to the U.S. from Manchester? Out of curiosity, are you a naturalized U.S. citizen?

In the first shooting, the cop was stopping a murder in progress. In the second shooting, the cop felt his life was in danger. I don't have enough information on the second shooting to decide if his fear was reasonable or not.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
26. He expects LEO's to admonish the potential murderer with a stern voice...
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 01:15 PM
Sep 2012

...and a wagging index finger.


 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
28. The second amendment has nothing to do with arming government officials.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 10:42 AM
Sep 2012

Clearly, government officials should not be allowed to carry firearms.

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