Two similar crimes, unarmed victim dies, armed victim lives.

[GreenStormCloud]

Last edited Fri Sep 28, 2012, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

First the one who died: http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/Assault-victim-dies-teen-faces-murder

KALAMAZOO, Mich. (WOOD) - A man assaulted Monday afternoon in Kalamazoo has died from his injuries.

The 48-year-old victim died around 10 p.m. at Bronson Hospital after sustaining a head injury in the assault, which happened in the area of Ada Street and Burrell Avenue.

The 17-year-old arrested in the case, Shemar Devon Campbell of Kalamazoo, now faces an open murder charge.

The victim was found lying in the street on Monday afternoon, bleeding from the head. He was taken to the hospital in critical condition at the time.

MORE AT LINK

Now the one who lived:http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/2-arrested-after-victim-shoots-robber

ALBION TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - An Albion Township homeowner shot one of people who attempted to rob him on Thursday morning.

According to the Calhoun County Sheriff's Department, deputies were called to a couple's home in the 16000 block of J Drive South around 9:30 a.m.

The victims told authorities that two people carrying baseball bats threatened and tried to rob them as they arrived home.

The male victim was assaulted, he told deputies, but managed to free himself from the suspects and get a gun. When one of the suspects came at him again, the homeowner said, he shot at the suspect. The homeowner was fairly certain the shot he fired had hit the suspect.

SNIP

Later Thursday, two suspects in Jackson County were taken into custody. One of those who had a wound said he had been shot a drive-by shooting in Jackson County, but authorities don't believe that's true.

Two crimes. In each one the victim was attacked by a person or persons with a club. The guy who brought a gun into the equation is alive.

Although it is not specifically stated that the dead guy was unarmed, I greatly doubt that he had a gun.

[safeinOhio]

1. So, you are blaming the victim because he didn't carry a gun.

Try blaming the guy that killed him first.

[GreenStormCloud]

2. You frequently blame victims for not hardening their homes.

Last edited Thu Sep 27, 2012, 11:49 PM - Edit history (1)

We learn by observing the actions of others and their results. Call comparing these two crimes, a cautionary tale.

[safeinOhio]

9. By suggesting one install some form of

home security is no more blaming the victim than suggesting one be armed with a handgun. I'm just pointing out, you can't have it both ways.

In either cases the blame should go to the attacker. Suggesting one install simple home security is no different than suggesting anyone carry a gun. Both can be effective, one to stop the criminal before putting ones life in danger. The other works after the danger is present. Either one can fail, but both work better than nothing. For those that don't wish to be armed, home security measures are effective, as no one gets hurt or killed and it can be cheaper than owning and becoming trained enough to be effective with a gun. I've have never said one should not own or carry a handgun, only that it should be the last resort if all else fails. You seem to promote handguns as the first defense by never mentioning security measures to prevent attacks in the first place.

[GreenStormCloud]

14. I have frequently posted that the gun is the last resort.

I have posted that other measures should be taken first. In fact, in the thread I started about the guy that killed five gang members in three fights, I said that I would have installed floor-to-ceiling bullet proof glass between the customers and his cage. Prevention is better because the gunfight that you avoid is one that you win.

However, I do advocate being armed for those times when avoidance fails. These were very similar crimes in the same general area in the same week. Being armed made the difference between living and dieing.

[spin]

21. I agree. A firearm should be the last resort. (n/t)

[friendly_iconoclast]

3. I see no indication he's blaming the victim.

Rather more that if someone attacks you with what is essentially a glorified cudgel, a firearm is probably going to be a more effective defense than going mano-a-mano...

[safeinOhio]

10. Secure your home and

and stay away from dangerous places at dangerous times, don't get involved in drugs or gangs and don't get involved with some ones spouse and your chances of being caught in a gun crime are reduced to almost nil. Not zero, just rare.

[holdencaufield]

17. And don't dress like a floozy ....

... you're just ASKING for it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. However, if one takes all prudent precautions and *still* becomes a victim...

...you do not owe your attacker a fair fight.

I'd also point out that vast majority of self-defense fireams are never fired in anger. My one and only DGU did not result in any shots fired, thank God...

[jbgood1977]

5. He did no such thing.

Why do you resort to straw-man tactics? Don't bother

[safeinOhio]

11. I learn from the best.

[holdencaufield]

16. I'm offended ...

... that you refer to someone who dies at the hands of a criminal a "victim"... they are a martyr the righteous cause of disarmament. They died believing it is wrong to defend yourself from those who would do you harm (well maybe they didn't believe it at the last moment -- but up until then ...)

(do I need to say it?)

[Oneka]

4. sometimes the perpetrator doesn't even have a weapon.

ST. CLOUD, Minn. -- A 17-year-old Sauk Rapids boy was charged with murder Tuesday in the death of a college student who was punched once in the face in a St. Cloud alley.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_21625166/st-cloud-teen-arrested-fatal-attack?source=most_viewed

[GreenStormCloud]

6. True. More people are killed with hands & feet than are killed with rifles.

I found it interesting that these two similar incidents, both happening in Michigan, so clearly illustrate the value of having a gun available for self-defense.

[trouble.smith]

8. the trick is deploying it in time.

the one time I needed my firearm, I had about 15 seconds to prepare but I think I was really lucky. I think most of the time, you'll be lucky if you see it coming at all. It's hard to constantly monitor your six.

[trouble.smith]

7. I knew a guy who killed a man with one punch to the face.

It wasn't that serious of a fight but the guy getting punched fell backwards and hit his head on a cement curb and died from a brain bleed.

[safeinOhio]

13. I'd think that booze might be a factor

for both.

[trouble.smith]

22. for sure. nt

[safeinOhio]

12. So, walking down a dark alley very late at night and not

being 21 years of age, old enough to get a CCW, and your solution is to carry a concealed handgun?

[GreenStormCloud]

15. Sometimes life is tough.

No set of laws is 100% fair. There will always be those who don't fit. The age 21 limit fits most cases most of the time.

[Oneka]

19. Yes

Making adults wait 3 years to exercise rights that other adults can enjoy is wrong, imo. Walking down a dark alley late at night, cannot always be avoided, it should not mean that you should automatically get attacked, but having the tools to defend yourself, should an attack bappen, is prudent.

[4th law of robotics]

18. Until we legalized concealed can carrying

these sort of thing is inevitable.

Guns can't protect you.

Only cans of beans can save your life!

/didn't you NRA drones ever wonder why most cops carry a can of Bush's Baked Beans in their holster instead of a gun?