Court Upholds Requirement That Gun Store Owners In Southwest Border Report Some Sales

[Purveyor]

By Associated Press,

WASHINGTON — A federal judge has dismissed a firearms industry association’s lawsuit seeking to block the Obama administration from requiring gun store owners in Southwest border states to report when customers buy multiple high-powered rifles.

U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives properly limited its requirement to purchasers of two or more semi-automatic rifles greater than .22 caliber within five days in the states of California, Arizona, New Mexico or Texas

MORE...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts-law/court-upholds-requirement-that-gun-store-owners-in-southwest-border-report-some-sales/2012/01/13/gIQATaD7wP_story.html

[E6-B]

1. Don't trust someone who breaks down the door.

It is such a simple concept. Even if they are there just 'for stuff', you would be a fool to trust them with best intentions for your well being when they break down your door.

[Starboard Tack]

3. What's your point?

Did I miss something here? Breaking down a door?

[E6-B]

7. Sorry I though this was the 'two outcomes thread'

[Starboard Tack]

2. Makes a lot of sense

[ManiacJoe]

4. But not as much as it could make.

Due to the poor reporting we don't know what the arguments were.

The problem as I see it is that the law is not getting uniformly applied, hence a legal violation. The federal law should apply to all the states, not just to the listed five.

Another problem is that this ATF rule is not actually a law.

[Starboard Tack]

5. Good point. It should apply to all states.

I guess the judge disagrees with you and the gun makers, whose only interest is selling guns, regardless whose hands they end up in.
Still, who wants more guns on the border, besides the ad hoc anti-immigrant wingnut militias? Yep, makes a lot of good sense.

[burf]

6. Yea, thats why the NSSF came up with

the "don't lie for the other guy" program.

Are you as critical of the ATF turning a blind eye to guns walking across the border?

[Starboard Tack]

12. Yes. Very critical. Major fuckup.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Do the words "Straw buyers will go on road trips" mean anything to you?

They should:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x435859

ATF announces new rules to encourage road trips by straw buyers

...One hopes that the straw buyers will get a nice mileage allowance as they make a circuit of multiple gun shops within their
home states, and that their bosses provide them with safe, fuel-efficient vehicles in which to do so.

Security theater at its finest....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x435675#435865

friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts)

Response to Reply #9
22. This "**sensible** policy" will encourage straw buyers to go on road trips...

in order to buy 1 (one) gun each at multiple gun shops within each state.
Which they can repeat after a suitable interval has passed...

This practice was known as "smurfing" in South Florida when used to launder money, and later multiple purchases of pseudoephdrine.
This is security theater promulgated by the cynical- and swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the gullible.

I do see one positive in all this. This will stimulate the travel industry in those states affected...

[Starboard Tack]

14. Yeah, doesn't really interest me that much

I really don't follow these stories, because they don't concern me. The laws all appear to be useless. The system is totally broken. Anyone can get a gun in this country. They are everywhere. That's not a healthy society unless the owners are responsible. Result is we end up with lots of good guys with guns they never use. And lots of bad guys looking to steal and use those guns and it seems to be working very well for all of you and the NRA and the gunsmiths and dealers.

Not working too well for the 100,000 gun victims every year. Not working too well for the taxpayers who pick up the tens of billions of dollars in medical and other associated costs.

Don't ask me to fix it. You want to keep your guns. You guys start coming up with ideas, because the backslapping isn't going to carry you much further.

[friendly_iconoclast]

16. The backlash cometh, eh?

[Starboard Tack]

17. Usually does, doesn't it?

Right now, you are part of the current backlash against all the unfairness and deprivation of your constitutional rights. But as you celebrate your great victories of introducing concealed guns into every corner of society, you eventually run out of steam. What do have left? Illinois, DC, NYC, a little mopping up here and there?

I truly think you are dreaming. You, the NRA and all who advocate this madness are about to hit a brick wall. Ah, you say, how come we've gotten so far? Because few people know what's going on and even fewer care. Right now. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.
As you love to say in jest "The backlash cometh!" Beware of the self fulfilling prophesy. I find it sad when extremists of any ilk push things so far in one direction that the swing of the pendulum to the other extreme is virtually inevitable. But honestly, in this case, I don't care. You will have brought it upon yourselves.

Won't be happening for a while, but it will happen. Something always wakes the people from their apathy.

[X_Digger]

18. Tell me, where's the 'backlash' to the civil rights movement?

When did the pendulum swing back for gender equality?

Protection of rights moves in one direction. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it takes a long time. Sometimes there are missteps, but we continue to move forward.

This 'pendulum' bullshit won't fly, either.

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Bluntly, there are too many people that like the idea to go back.

And when they see stuff like "Damn right we'll confiscate." posted here and elsewhere, it just stiffens their resolve to protect what they've gained.

[burf]

13. Here's a little more information

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-usa-guns-court-idUSTRE80C2G920120113

HTH

[ellisonz]

8. About time something was done...

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. It will be as helpful as the 1994-2004 ban on bayonet mounts was.

[ileus]

9. This should make people feel good...

[aikoaiko]

15. I'm sure we'll see a big reduction in Mexican cartel gun violence starting now.

[SteveW]

20. One thing missing in this discussion is who is buying the guns in Mexico?

Of course, many are the criminals and thugs associated with the cartels; but there has been speculation that a sizable number of weapons (usually smaller ones) are being purchased by regular Mexican citizens for self-protection. But this is lost in the shuffle of gun-control politics.

I believe it was reported in these threads a few months ago that one small Mexican town had taken to training its citizenry in, of all things, target practice.