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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Race & Ethnicity » Race & Ethnicity (Group) » Accusations of "Cult...

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:56 PM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

Accusations of "Cultural Appropriation": A thoroughly racist concept that needs to go away.

Let's be very clear about something: Culture does not belong to anyone, because human beings are individuals that can do what they like, listen to or create whatever kind of music pleases them, put their hair however they please, etc. Just as one person is not required to dress a certain way based on their race, so another person is not prohibited from dressing that way based on not being a member of that group. As long as they're not mocking the other group, there is nothing morally questionable in liking a style and participating in it.

The entire concept of "cultural appropriation" is insanely racist, internet hivemind nonsense that has no connection to liberal-progressive values, and I'm very disturbed seeing it leeching into the mainstream of left-wing discourse. Pigeonholing people and telling them what their tastes are supposed to be based on their race is literally racist. Not figuratively "literally," literally literally. Racist.

This isn't much of a priority problem on the subject of racism, but it is annoying how openly it's being preached, and how bizarrely the people engaging in it think they're speaking out against racism by being hugely racist. An idiotic idea bothers me the most when it believes itself to be progressive and is the opposite.

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Accusations of "Cultural Appropriation": A thoroughly racist concept that needs to go away. (Original post)
 True Blue Door Jul 2015 OP
LineReply Well done, thanks!
 haikugal Jul 2015 #1
LineReply Bull. Black culture BELONGS to black people. Period. Full stop.
 bravenak Jul 2015 #2
LineLineReply where it end? I.e.,
 elehhhhna Jul 2015 #4
LineLineLineReply Wear whatever you want.
 bravenak Jul 2015 #5
LineLineLineLineReply You seem to be contradicting yourself.
 True Blue Door Jul 2015 #6
LineLineLineLineLineReply You are improperly using words.
 bravenak Jul 2015 #7
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply Which words? Please explain how I am in error.
 True Blue Door Jul 2015 #8
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply You do not understand cultural appropriation properly.
 bravenak Jul 2015 #9
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply If you're being sarcastic, use a tag. Otherwise, explain what it is you think I don't get.
 True Blue Door Jul 2015 #10
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply You should seek out the answers by googling 'cultural appropriation, black feminism'
 bravenak Jul 2015 #11
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Or, alternatively, you can justify your own comments.
 True Blue Door Jul 2015 #12
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply So nothing to see here, everybody is equal? Everyone is on equal footing.
 fleabiscuit Feb 2017 #22
LineLineNew Reply Message auto-removed
 Name removed Nov 2015 #17
LineReply It can be forced onto cultures too, i.e. Middle Eastern culture forced onto Europe via the Romans
 arcane1 Jul 2015 #3
LineReply cultural appropriation is only an option for the majority
 noiretextatique Aug 2015 #13
LineLineNew Reply The problem is that the very idea of "cultural appropriation" contains racist definitions.
 True Blue Door Aug 2015 #14
LineLineLineNew Reply i don't consider adopting clothing or hairstyles cultural appropriation
 noiretextatique Aug 2015 #15
LineLineLineNew Reply Ever thought of substituting the concept of "defines" for "belongs to." nt
 fleabiscuit Feb 2017 #23
LineNew Reply Interesting topic
 davidpdx Sep 2015 #16
LineNew Reply Are you saying that AA's who talk of cultural appropriation
 ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #18
LineLineNew Reply I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation
 LanternWaste Dec 2015 #19
LineLineNew Reply Message auto-removed
 Name removed Feb 2017 #21
LineNew Reply Message auto-removed
 Name removed Feb 2017 #20

Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:00 PM

haikugal (6,476 posts)

1. Well done, thanks!

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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:42 PM

bravenak (34,648 posts)

2. Bull. Black culture BELONGS to black people. Period. Full stop.

 

White folks do not own black culture and do not get to make decisions among themselves over whether it's okay for them to appropriate our culture without us talking About it, pointing it out, rejecting it, and ridiculing them when they think they can just come in and decide that they somehow own a piece of us in some way.

If you take anytime to understand other culture you would not be so arrogant ad to think you can just intellectualize and make decisions about something that is not your to decide on.

What is really really racist is when people talk over black folks, steal their culture and then call them the racist for complaining about appropriation. It is the epitome of white priviledged thinking and it is ass backwards. Do you own a piece of Eskimo culture too? Nigerian? Arab? Chinese? No, you don't. It is not yours.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:03 PM

elehhhhna (32,076 posts)

4. where it end? I.e.,

 

I've seen serious arguments that white women shouldn't wear braids.
B/c black women wore them originally.

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:04 PM

bravenak (34,648 posts)

5. Wear whatever you want.

 

Just don't try to pretend to be what you are not or say you own it too. It is an affectation for you that you can cast off easily.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:34 AM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

6. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

One moment you're arguing for cultural segregation, saying in effect that people should "keep to their own kind" as you define it, but then you say "Wear whatever you want." Which is it?

A culture is not defined by stopping other people from imitating it. All culture is appropriated, and re-appropriated, forever and across all lines because human beings are not defined by race.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:36 AM

bravenak (34,648 posts)

7. You are improperly using words.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:37 AM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

8. Which words? Please explain how I am in error.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:42 AM

bravenak (34,648 posts)

9. You do not understand cultural appropriation properly.

 

You should seek out black feminists for answers.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:01 AM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

10. If you're being sarcastic, use a tag. Otherwise, explain what it is you think I don't get.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:09 AM

bravenak (34,648 posts)

11. You should seek out the answers by googling 'cultural appropriation, black feminism'

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:09 AM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

12. Or, alternatively, you can justify your own comments.

Enlighten everyone with your deep understanding of these issues.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 10, 2017, 09:28 PM

Star Member fleabiscuit (4,482 posts)

22. So nothing to see here, everybody is equal? Everyone is on equal footing.

No group has a structural advantage over another? Good to know.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #2)

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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:15 PM

arcane1 (38,613 posts)

3. It can be forced onto cultures too, i.e. Middle Eastern culture forced onto Europe via the Romans

 

Then, centuries later, that Middle-Eastern/European hybrid culture was forced onto the children of indigenous Americans. The near ubiquity of Spanish in our hemisphere is the classic example of that.

It's a fascinating topic, though not often pleasant.

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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Tue Aug 4, 2015, 06:43 AM

noiretextatique (27,238 posts)

13. cultural appropriation is only an option for the majority

that's why it is called appropriation. it is not the least bit racist, but it is a comment on the unquestioned perogative of imperialism and racism to appropriate...whatever. is this even an option for most POC? NO. you think bubba waving a confederate flag is going to accept my adoption of my english ancestors as foremost, given my black skin? NO. but i must accept some white woman who really, really wants to be black as black because she lies about having a black father and wears braids? NO.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:17 PM

True Blue Door (2,969 posts)

14. The problem is that the very idea of "cultural appropriation" contains racist definitions.

If a set of things "belongs" to a race, then that must mean another set of things doesn't.

It must also mean that racist trolls who go after people for "acting (insert other race)" are somehow justified.

Styles are an individual choice, and a separate topic from the matter of ethnic identity you raise. Someone who claims to be something they're not is lying, and that's a meaningful fact to the people they lie to. But the idea that a person's race circumscribes what kind of clothes and hairstyles they're allowed to wear, what kind of music they're allowed to listen to or make, etc. is laughably racist and backward.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:56 PM

noiretextatique (27,238 posts)

15. i don't consider adopting clothing or hairstyles cultural appropriation

so no need to continue this conversation.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 10, 2017, 10:48 PM

Star Member fleabiscuit (4,482 posts)

23. Ever thought of substituting the concept of "defines" for "belongs to." nt

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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Sat Sep 19, 2015, 05:09 AM

davidpdx (22,000 posts)

16. Interesting topic

I read a bit about it to gain a general understanding of what cultural appropriation is. I had never heard the term before. Personally I have become very interested in learning about different cultures since I moved to South Korea almost 12 years ago. Dissertation for my doctoral degree was on how foreign consumers interact with small- and medium-sized businesses here in Korea, so it briefly touched on culture.

After the reading the strongest example I think I can come up with is the Washington (that NFL team) using a Native-American name. That has been a rather contentious issue the last few years. It seems like Synder is not going to change the name no matter how much pressure is put on him. Interestingly, most of the press has stopped using the term (the one I won't say) as sort of an informal boycott.

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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:52 PM

Star Member ismnotwasm (39,888 posts)

18. Are you saying that AA's who talk of cultural appropriation

Are racist?

Wiki actually has a decent article on it

Cultural appropriation is a sociological concept which views the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of a different culture as a largely negative phenomenon.[3] Generally, an assumption that the culture being borrowed from is also being oppressed by the culture doing the borrowing is prerequisite to the concept. This view of cultural borrowing is controversial, both in academic circles, and in general society. According to proponents of the concept of cultural appropriation, such cultural borrowings are problematic for a variety of reasons, ranging from group identity, and questions of cultural oppression, to claims of intellectual property rights.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:17 PM

LanternWaste (36,771 posts)

19. I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation

I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation (the process of cultural change and psychological change that results following meeting between cultures), but cultural appropriation is a new term/concept to me. I'm going to feel like a right stupid half-wit if it turns out I've been reading the latter as the former.

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