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Wed Mar 18, 2015, 01:15 AM

"That awkward moment when I realized my white “liberal” friends were racists"

**POSTED IN THE AA GROUP**
More: http://thegrio.com/2015/02/15/white-liberal-racists/

Has the sharing of prejudice evolved into a hip bonding ritual in 21st-century America? This writer shares his surprising experiences as a white male navigating through young white “liberal” circles — after all the black people have left the room.

“White power!” the smiling girl declared, her fist held high in a grotesque imitation of a Black Power salute. A tall, thin, stylish humanities major in a midriff-baring red T, she was a vegan, an environmentalist, an intellectual, and she was my friend.

The comical scene played out to its record-scratching, freeze-frame, “WTF?” climax around a picnic table populated by frat boys in the middle of the sunny UCLA campus. It seemed like the thousandth time a friend had suddenly unloaded a blatantly racist bombshell, although this was the wildest one yet.

As a Canadian working and studying in Los Angeles for ten years, I began to wonder why progressive young hipsters of various races were so eager to privately share their disturbing ideas about black people. The fact that these probing admissions came from a large number of my “coolest” friends, rather than the usual suspects, made it seem like a disturbing new cultural phenomenon.

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Reply "That awkward moment when I realized my white “liberal” friends were racists" (Original post)
Jamaal510 Mar 2015 OP
Number23 Mar 2015 #1
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #2
F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #3
Name removed Mar 2015 #5
Name removed Mar 2015 #6
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #8
marble falls Mar 2015 #10
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #23
Number23 Mar 2015 #39
heaven05 Mar 2015 #43
Jamaal510 Mar 2015 #34
Skittles Mar 2015 #4
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #7
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #11
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #13
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #17
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #19
Name removed Mar 2015 #21
heaven05 Mar 2015 #44
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #47
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #51
Name removed Mar 2015 #22
Skittles Mar 2015 #36
giftedgirl77 Mar 2015 #9
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #12
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #15
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #18
Name removed Mar 2015 #20
lovemydog Mar 2015 #25
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #14
salin Mar 2015 #31
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #32
salin Mar 2015 #35
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #37
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #33
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #38
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #50
Number23 Mar 2015 #40
IronLionZion Mar 2015 #16
marym625 Mar 2015 #24
Jamaal510 Mar 2015 #42
marym625 Mar 2015 #55
heaven05 Mar 2015 #46
marym625 Mar 2015 #54
nevergiveup Mar 2015 #26
Post removed Mar 2015 #27
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #30
jeff47 Mar 2015 #52
WDIM Mar 2015 #28
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #29
Post removed Mar 2015 #41
heaven05 Mar 2015 #45
JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #49
heaven05 Mar 2015 #53
Matrosov Mar 2015 #48
heaven05 Mar 2015 #56
NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #57
XemaSab Mar 2015 #58

Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 01:55 AM

1. K&R And not to threadjack but this is another good read along the same lines

'I was the black guy in a white frat'
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/16/my_shucking_and_jiving_years_i_was_the_black_guy_in_a_white_frat/

I have been hearing over and over and over again on this board that it's "liberals" and "the young" and those with "education" that will bring about the end of racism.

And yet, between your post and mine, all of these "good liberals" and college educated young people seem to be doing everything in their power to NOT speed along racism's end. I am seriously starting to think this shit is NEVER going to die.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 02:18 AM

2. It will likely never end.

I know it is pessimistic, but in all reality, it seems to be a part of the human condition. Now, will equality win out? I believe that can happen, but it will be much longer in the making.

I have been hearing over and over and over again on this board that it's "liberals" and "the young" and those with "education" that will bring about the end of racism.


NOPE! Your instinct is quite correct. "The young" can be just as hateful as the "old." I hate hearing, "I can't wait for them (meaning old people) to die off!" as if that will magically get rid of racism (or other bigotries). Bigotry is self-perpetuating because it is taught, so the only way for it to die off is for it not to be taught! As for education, consider things like climate change denial, if educated people can spit in the face of overwhelming scientific proof, then it isn't a far stretch to see people ignore or engage in racism, which is a social construct and doesn't always have "hardcore proof" to refute the bigotry. Then there is the "liberal" (or IMO, the "progressive" group claims will end the racism...yeah, that ain't happening either, because of two things, the need for an "other", and it is a logical fallacy (No True Scotsman) spouted as a truth.

The left of center folks need to understand bigotry, a variety of them, are all throughout our ranks, and ignoring them doesn't make them go away.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 03:07 AM

3. I disagree.

There is some hope that it may end. Racism isn't inherent, thankfully (at least I haven't seen evidence for that). We have a tendency to group things, and to identify different people and ideas as "others", but that classification is of relatively small effect compared to non-innate forces. It doesn't necessarily apply to race-two babies raised together would think of another white or black person as more of an "other" than they would their sibling. It can be reclassified as an "us" very easily, just as it can also manifest great racism and separation.

There are numerous times throughout history, however brief, where color distinctions were dropped. Back in colonial times, poor whites were in such bad shape they would ally with slaves. Irish would ally with blacks in the 1800 while working under brutal conditions. There's a reason there were laws forbidding interracial marriages, interracial meetings, giving whites preferential treatment, etc. Some socialist and communist movements in the early 1900s tried to get rid of it too.

History has been a constant balancing act of race vs. race, minority vs. majority, middle-class vs. the poor, all very delicately maintained by an economic and political elite and embedded in an oppressive economic system that occasionally slips, and eventually crumbles. When we can realize our struggles are not with each other but as a single human experience, when we can tear down the current system and replace it with one of humanity and coexistence, then maybe we can be almost completely shed of bigotries. I have some hope for a future generation.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 05:17 AM

8. You touched a nerve

Name removed showed up!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 06:39 AM

10. And he posted as stupidly as you can imagine.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 08:34 AM

23. He seems to be showing up a lot under my posts.

Must have been his last nerve that I keep touching

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 06:46 PM

39. Yes, yes and yes again

Bigotry is self-perpetuating because it is taught

Gold Star. Seriously. Gold Star. You might think you have said something that is completely non-revolutionary but as is painfully obvious from the systemic discrimination that poc still face -- everything from blatant discrimination to "micro aggressions" including the minimizing or ignoring of black people when they say that something or someone is racist -- that the concept that racism is ongoing because it is still being TAUGHT is definitely not obvious to everyone.

THIS more than anything else in the world explains why so many people will stomp on, deny, minimize or flat out ignore any race discussions. It's because it IS taught and the best way to UNteach it is to talk about it, discuss it and reflect on its impact on others as well as those doing it.

Not only do discussions of racism make certain people uncomfortable because it means they will have to check their own privileges and ways that they may have benefited and perhaps even perpetuated racism, but the folks who have benefitted from racism actually have to take stock of the ways in which those benefits may have come at the expense of others. Which is a conversation they truly are not willing to have.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:02 AM

43. Nothing pessimistic about it

 

given the ongoing truth of racist american culture, it's a certified fact that in 230 years, america has not conquered it's racist demon. Each generation has bred it's hardcore cadre of racist and it continues as evidenced by 47% voting for romney and the repubthugs who have made no secret of hating that man in the white house because he is black. America is doomed to suffer hate, ignorance, murder and executions of unarmed POC until the cows come home and after searching far and wide for them, they are no where to be seen. I REALLY agree with the last line of your post. No truth was ever spoken more quietly and eloquently.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 01:18 PM

34. No, feel free to post away!

That article looks like a good read. And...
I am seriously starting to think this shit is NEVER going to die.

this is what I'm thinking, too. There will always be intolerant people in the world. It's like a cycle. I think the best we can hope for is for it to become more taboo and for more people to catch on.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 03:11 AM

4. vegan, environmentalist, an intellectual and shouting WHITE POWER

she must be part of the DEMOCRAT PARTY

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 05:16 AM

7. The author of the article never wrote that


Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)Wed Mar 18, 2015, 03:11 AM
Skittles (98,784 posts)
4. vegan, environmentalist, an intellectual and shouting WHITE POWER

she must be part of the DEMOCRAT PARTY
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IE Democratic Party.

He wrote white and liberal.

What experiences have you had where people drop their tea and scones facade?

What did you think of the Asian woman's perception of black people in the article?

The son of the Attorney for the Record company?

Do you understand the "black flinch" better having read the article?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:19 AM

11. Surely by now

everybody (especially everybody with 98k posts) knows that 'Democrat Party' is an insult RWers use deliberately to annoy Democrats, so that was presumably being used here in some sarcastic or ironic way, perhaps to suggest that the linked story is another way to attack Democrats, or a sort of knee-jerk 'No True Scotsman' post, perhaps?

I've certainly had that awkward moment, and I have to admit the first few times, my instinct was to not speak out and make it 'more awkward', until I realized that A) it couldn't possibly get less awkward, B) silence means they think you agree with them, and C) by not speaking you miss a chance to hold a mirror up to the hate, and show them just how ugly it is. Plus, of course, not saying anything only helps reinforce their message of bigotry with themselves and any possible onlookers. But speaking out wasn't an automatic response. I had to realize that it wasn't just that somebody was telling you some disturbing personal secret about themselves, but something that rippled out into the rest of society, and fed and grew upon silence.

That things like the rampant police violence toward black males begins with silence from those who do not speak up against words or incidents like those mentioned in the story. The silence reinforcing the beliefs that 'everyone (every white person, that is, since they don't care what black people think) agrees with me', and the stronger beliefs leading to stronger and more bigoted actions.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:36 AM

13. Where have you been all of my life?

Excellent points -

It's the silence of our friends.

My mom is the master of 'calling it out' - because especially now that she's older -

No one expects the late 60's blonde with green eyes to call them to the floor because her late husband was black, she has two black children, 3 black grand children, and 3 black step grand children.

And my husband is pretty clear - that he's getting very good at it. Or as he likes to say - when they think no one else is around to hear them . . .

What was disturbing about the post that I responded to Erich? It clearly showed the person had not read the article - which was light and brief. If that's all you have to say when the author ripped the 'band aid' off - then it's pretty clear there was no positive intent.

End of Post to Erich

*******************************

And before I get 'alerted' for 'calling someone out' - please note I'm a Group Host in the AA Group and It's My Volunteer Job to keep an eye on whether topics and posts are off topic.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 08:04 AM

17. Where have I been most of your life? On the sidelines with all the other racially ignorant folks.

I wasn't born actually thinking about race issues. I grew up in whitebread flyover country, and vaguely knew exactly one black person in highschool, a guy who'd been adopted by white parents. I sat through the same 'boring' history classes, no doubt not caring about learning about slavery, civil rights, or anything else race related any more than I did any other part of history, not seeing how or even that it was going to affect my life.

I like to think I treated black people like I treated white people, but that's not saying much - I've been pretty introverted (ie, self-centered, in a very literal way) my whole life. And that was me for the first three decades or so. It's only been the last decade, decade and a half that I've begun to pay attention to what's going on outside my own little universe. And in terms of racial issues, that's thanks to the AA and NA posters over at Daily Kos. I was a skeptic too about how bad folks with more melanin had it in the US - a denialist if you will, until I simply started learning what was going on in the society beyond the little cocoon I'd built for myself. By listening when they taught, hearing the things that I'm not hearing anywhere else. The media remains mostly useless, schools are largely either afraid to address the issues or simply unwilling to face the blowback from denialist white parents.

I know that it's unfair that the people who are being oppressed have to also take the time to teach the folks who benefit from the oppression. But it really does work. Not quickly, but unless someone is willing to teach, no one learns. Without black teachers at DK slogging on in the face of continual self-centered ignorance, I would have simply gone on thinking 'We live in a largely post-racial world' like so many others do.

And those who know what needs taught are those who live most intimately with the problems. We need black, brown, red voices speaking up loudly and continuously in spaces dominated by whites to break down the walls of indifference and ignorance. Because we're not good at paying attention for long periods. We've been trained by television to expect quick resolutions to things, to think 'we can make it better in 30 minutes, then we can go back to ignoring the world others are experiencing'.

(BTW, the one show on tv I do think is extremely useful is Melissa Harris-Perry. She is unapologetically addressing the racial facets of various issues every single show, and in a way that helps us pale-skinned folks peek out a bit from behind our blinders.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 08:16 AM

19. I love MPH

She has a really good book - Sister Citizen - check it out if you get the chance.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:06 AM

44. thanks for the candor

 

refreshing, actually.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #44)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 11:00 AM

47. I think it's often ignored by everyone.

We're all born ignorant, we're all shaped by our environments. And we all tend to think the world is what we experience. It takes exposure to the experiences of others that are radically different than our own to make many of us actually start thinking about more than our own selves, our own families, our own groupings of people 'like us', no matter what the similarities that define 'like us' are. Some folks are lucky enough to learn to step outside ourselves early in life, others are insulated from doing so far longer, some forever.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 03:06 PM

51. The Social Sciences refer to this as ...

 

evidence of emotional maturation.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #7)


Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 05:22 AM

9. K& R, this goes right along with the nasty thread

 

that brought out all the typicals on DU regarding why whites freak out when you bring up racism in the first place. There is a serious disconnect along the way somewhere between white liberals & racism.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:28 AM

12. As a country, we pussyfoot around race issues.

Most schools don't ever address it head on, and 'The Civil Rights' movement is taught as history, not an ongoing struggle. So for a lot of folks, this is probably the only place they see race issues brought up in any depth, with it being 'cartoonized' into a binary 'bad people are racist' 'good people aren't', and everyone sees themselves as 'good', so they can't possibly be racist. So all this talk about nuance and shades of racially biased behaviour and support for racist ideas built into our institutions is terribly uncomfortable. You see the same things in every comment thread under a privilege diary, with the denial that 'white privilege' exists from certain posters, or the endless attempts to want to get rid of the phrase, and just call racially bigoted acts 'racism' because they want that good old binary 'racist/not racist' so they can internally place themselves in the comforting 'not racist' category while feeling morally superior to those far fewer in number people who are happy to wallow publicly in racially bigoted speech and actions. With the added 'bonus' that if 'racism' is confined to those extreme actors, it's a 'much smaller problem'.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:43 AM

15. Another excellent point

'The Civil Rights' movement is taught as history, not an ongoing struggle.

I think you should read this thread by YoungDemCa (sp?). . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118713163

YDC took a deep dive on this concept. . . IE - it's not over folks!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 08:09 AM

18. Didn't get a lot of attention

and, of course, most of what it did get seems to be auto-bristle mode by people who don't want to see 'people like me' getting called to pay attention.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #9)


Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 09:00 AM

25. I agree.

As others say in this thread, it's an ongoing struggle, not something to file away as 'past history.'

For example, it took me a long time grasp some understanding of Ferguson. For months I was like 'Oh, that's the threads where everyone's mad about stuff I don't understand. I'm staying out of it because I don't want the stress.'

It was during the lack of indictment phase that my eyes opened, I started reading about and it became fascinating. I read as much as I could about the systemic racism in that police department & judicial system. I participated in rallies. It's getting through to many that Ferguson isn't an isolated incident, and we must improve many police departments and judicial systems, for the good of all.

It's funny how long it can take before things can reach a critical mass. Where then a whole lot of people start understanding it better. When I saw President Obama talking about Ferguson during his recent speech at Selma, I was glad he talked about it as a struggle that continues.

The discipline and peaceful aspects of the protesters, that's impressive. Some battles we'll win, some we'll lose. We'll keep it up though. We'll also have the joy of meeting great people along the way.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:40 AM

14. Because they are in your general age group . . .

Did you see this thread by Behind The Aegis?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141042441

To me - it's those who are silent that allow those in the BTA thread to implement and inflict pain, hurt, and threats with their beliefs.

Now I could be wrong - maybe the folks who did that at Vanderbilt University are outside of the campus community agitators - but I'm thinking it's the supposed 'young and aware' who did that.

What disturbs me the most about what that man wrote was more the 'financial impact' anecdote. I'd rather someone raise their fist and say white power that deliberately and maliciously impact my wallet. And the fact that the 'kid' laughed about it tells me he was taught this and at his age is never going to let it go.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 12:27 PM

31. thank you for writing this

I did a cursory read and ugh, but didn't read the whole article until I read what you wrote.

It really made me want to throw up. Especially the social darwin part - and the belief that blacks and whites get along so well together in the south and have since the end of slavery. Stunning ignorance and lack of empathy.

Now I'll show my ignorance - what is the BTA thread?

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Response to salin (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

32. Click on the link in my post

Someone at Vanderbilt U painted swatiskas on the AEPi frat house.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 01:44 PM

35. lol... Now I see it Beyond The Aegis!

The thread, in context of the seeming influx of stories of young people behaving superiorly/hatefully makes me wonder if there is an amplification of not just distrusting "the other" - but outright hatefulness toward "the other" and acting on it as an outgrowth of years of hate radio and hate news (Rush et al, and Fox News et al) which has become increasingly alarmist and shrieking of victimhood in the era of the TeaParty? Just thinking out loud - about what is fueling the acting so righteously in the act of doing grievous things with seeming impunity?

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Response to salin (Reply #35)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 02:17 PM

37. The young uns?

Don't leave out the Social Networking Meme - I think if you see something enough - you start to believe it?

And yeah - BTA is pretty awesome! He looks at the whole picture of things as I do.

I don't know what exactly is influencing them - I can't pin point it. But it seems like there is this total disconnect from reality.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 01:09 PM

33. Hey! I saw that thread!



Did you see some of the comments?

Here is something relating to the OU incident from a professor there:

Racial tensions on college campuses: Little has changed for the better in 36 years, professor says

---snip---

In sum, I must say that, measured by the kind of college experience students are likely to have today, very little has changed for the better in the thirty-six years since I went to college.

---snip---

At University of California Los Angeles (UCLA), where I earned my graduate degrees, I took many intensive seminars. But my daily tutorials came from reading the racist graffiti written inside the stalls of the public bathrooms located in the University Research Library and in the Powell Library.

From my student days, I also remember quite vividly public controversies over white frat parties being centered around anti-immigrant themes, or the decision of an African-American student group to publish its own edition of the “Protocols of Zion” as a fundraiser.

---snip---

From these converging experiences, I encounter last week’s events strongly convinced that they must, at some point, bring the national conversation back to the central issue: we are a very rigidly segregated society, by race.

I believe there is a class polarization going on, following the pull of an unspoken desire, especially of whites, to live among people like themselves.

--snip---

As economist Charles Clotfelter noted in an important study a decade ago, we live in a paradoxical society that is certainly not “post racial”: residential segregation between neighborhoods (including the schools they support) is increasing. At the same time interracial contact is greater, especially in higher education.

--snip--

We need to move forward with a quiet humility, but one that is infused with determination.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/racial-tensions-on-college-campuses-little-has-changed-for-the-better-in-36-years-professor-says/


Some problems are as they always were. While education is the key, one has to have a willing audience. Just as you can't help an alcoholic until s/he wants the help, the same can be said of racists/bigots. Sure, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but for many, they have to want to change in order for the change to happen.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 02:28 PM

38. Good comments here

I graduate from a small private Catholic University about 20 years ago. Maybe it's because of the way Father Connelly ran the school and the Universitys history of tolerance - but I don't remember this shit. And back then - we didn't have a Greek System there. I think it's there now in a limited format.

I just- I don't remember grafitti on stalls or walls. I mean - I was an R.A. and we went to War against the 1st Floor Alliance in our building (long story - not the thread for this :roll) and I ran up a flag saying 'Clet Hall R.A.s The Priests Are on Our Side) - but it wasn't race, gender, sexuality, religion based.

If there was 'one' group that was targeted it was Francophones from Quebec coming over the border. But I know I stood up for people when folks were acting the fool - and I wasn't the only one.

And the ONE racial incident I had - was a black South African woman (she entered at 22 - so imagine her life experience) turning up her nose when I got out of the shower and telling me I "smelled like one of them". My mom had to explain that to me and she (the woman) and I were cool once she realized I was even black - but as my mom said: Put yourself in her shoes. She grew up in an extremely racially divided country and she's probably never been around wet caucasian or caucasian mix hair.

And I was the first mixed race person she had ever met!

Anyways - maybe it was what was fostered from the top down - but we just didn't act like damn fools over this stuff. We lived too close together, were surrounded by townies, and our tolerance level might have been raised by the number of Irish, South African (black), Russian (in particular of Eastern Europeans) Catholic students who had REALLY experience some seriously rough shit that made you say - How can I be nice to other people?


Was the late 1980's early 1990's a sweet spot to attend University and not have this nonsense be part of our day to day lives? Was it the University shifting from being a top notch 'party school on the border' to increasing dramatically your test and gpa to get in - and then creating a super diverse student body that complemented each other?

I was on the student admissions advisory council - and I know I went to bat a for a few white kids from the Appalachians that I knew would need serious financial aid but I thought we might be able to learn something from. Ditto two black students (my Junior year for entry my senior year) from South Central - thinking . . . what can we learn considering what happened in their home 'town' just a few years ago.

Something is really disconnected for me - and I don't understand.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 02:47 PM

50. I went to a public university in South Carolina about 20 years ago.

It is interesting you picked up on the bathroom stall comment. That popped out to me too. I will need the guys to back me up here, but in men's stalls, it is a much different story than the women's stalls. Like you, I was a RA too (then a hall director, and eventually an area coordinator). Most of the stalls in the residence halls didn't have graffiti. There might be some in the common bathrooms shared with the public, but the main floors it was rare.

When I saw that comment, I was thinking more of common bathrooms....gas stations and the like. Those things look like novels and the racism, homophobia, sexism, and anti-Semitism were astonishing. I would guess now many would reflect anti-Latino, anti-Muslim, and a few others depending on what part of the country one was visiting. For shits and giggles (oooo...bad pun), maybe I will pop into a few johns around here and see if things have changed. Some cities are better at keeping stalls clean. We live in a small town (under 40K), so I may have to pop on down to Tulsa.

The thing is, personally, I feel the internet itself has become the bathroom stall door for many people. One simply has to go to comment boards of new outlets (some are better than others) and see the filth people spew when they aren't known. Plus, people don't have to sit on the pot all day, they can shit anywhere, everywhere, anytime of the day or night, they just use a different medium now.

I feel college allows for some people to grow because they are finally around different people, but many still self-segregate and, sadly, reinforce the hate, bigotry, and prejudices they already have.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:24 PM

40. "While education is the key, one has to have a willing audience."

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:49 AM

16. Yup, I've noticed the people telling me to learn my place and not be too uppity

are always educated liberal vegan types who follow eastern religions, drive hybrid cars, and are intellectually and spiritually superior to someone like me. Not all of course, but I was deeply disappointed and surprised when I first discovered this.

Conservative racists are simpler to identify and avoid.

The same could probably be said of sexists and homophobes and other bigots. It's more subtle on the liberal side.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 08:45 AM

24. K&R!

It is amazing what people say when they don't realize the people around them will be disgusted with their racism and/or bigotry.

I worked with someone who came into the company a year after I did at a C level position (him I mean.) He was constantly making horrible "jokes" and comments about homosexuals. I was not out at the time and he just had no problem saying these things in front of me and others. Each time he said something I voiced my objections. After a few days of this I said, "you really should stop this. Besides how disgusting it is, there are quite a few gay people in this company." His reply was, "well they better stay out of my office " To which the others in the room responded to with laughter.

After a week, I came out to him. He turned about 20 shades of red and, after saying, "I didn't know that" (no shit!) he apologized. For the next 5 years, he kept a civil tongue in front of me. At least most of the time.

In hindsight, I really regret not reporting him. I feared for my job and I wasn't out at my work. One of my biggest regrets.

Being the overgrown, aging, frat boy that he is, I can't believe he didn't say horribly racist things to his buddies. Just was smart enough to keep that to himself at work.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 07:58 PM

42. Somehow I think

his apology might've been fake, but maybe I'm being too harsh here.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 21, 2015, 07:39 AM

55. I don't know

I really don't. I think his obvious embarrassment was more than just for being caught. But I don't know that he felt bad for more than insulting me. I think in general his feelings didn't change.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:25 AM

46. you did stand up

 

and was counted. That's all that it takes.....

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #46)

Sat Mar 21, 2015, 07:37 AM

54. Thanks

I should have reported him. But at least I didn't sit silent.

Thank you, heaven!

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 09:15 AM

26. I question the term

"white liberal racist". To me the term is an oxymoron. You can not be liberal and a also be a racist anymore than you can be a liberal and also be a climate change denier. There are many white folks who call themselves "liberal" but are also closeted racists. I am an old white man and I meet them all the time. They assume because I am old, and white and male I too have racist tendencies. This is not to say that there are not old white people like me who are not true liberals because there are. I meet them all the time too and because of the present political climate many of them are in the closet too, not as racists but as closeted liberals. Society is a mixed bag. Tread slowly and be careful about making assumptions when it comes to groups or sub-groups of people.

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Response to nevergiveup (Reply #26)


Response to nevergiveup (Reply #26)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 11:34 AM

30. Maybe it's an age difference thing?

The author - a Canadian is pointing out the 'hipster' set he encounters?

I would say for someone maybe 55/60 and older in your demographic - you are spot on.

I'm a gen xer - to me - liberal USED to automatically mean 'racial justice and equality'.


But in a country where it is becomingly increasingly "I got mine screw you go get yours" - perhaps we are seeing this shift? Where not holding something like equality - which I believe IS held near and dear to the hearts of older white liberals and progressives - is key to being in the big tent?

I'm a 40 something looking into this world of 20 somethings and it is disturbing.

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Response to nevergiveup (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 03:20 PM

52. There is no formal checklist you have to complete before declaring yourself "liberal"

Someone who does not meet your criteria can still consider themselves liberal. And may very well be liberal in other areas.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 10:14 AM

28. The article itself is racist.

For using the word "white" liberal. As if liberals by another color including "black" liberals don't also have their prejudices.

The key to ending racism is to drop the labels. We dont need to label people by race. There is only one race the human race and we are all the same color on the inside.

We may have our prejudices and our stereotypes and our and labels but we need to break the cycle and learn that our prejudices and stereo types are false. This article just adds to the labeling stereotypes and prejudices.

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Response to WDIM (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 18, 2015, 11:29 AM

29. The author of the article - is a white man

Showing what other non black people say -

When we aren't around.



Re: As if liberals by another color including "black" liberals don't also have their prejudices. <-- That's not the point of the OP. AT ALL. That's a topic for General Discussion - OR - you may start your own topic in the AA Group.


I don't disagree with this - There is only one race the human race and we are all the same color on the inside.<-- But that's not the reality for the Dominant Culture in America. They have to drop it first as the minorities in this country - we don't have the par and parcel power to make them drop it.

IF white folks who hold these prejudices towards blacks would just 'let it go' - then we could move on. But black people can't FORCE them to.

We just can't. Again - maybe a better plea in GD as we don't get a lot of traffic from a large cross section of non black members at DU in this group.

Can you make your plea to them?


I think - as black folks - this article clearly explains the 'wince' as my husband calls it. Now he's a white guy not from America -but he 'sees it'. He sees it not only from blacks - but lately latino/hispanic folks as well. We 'wince' and 'flinch' for a reason -

We never really know what someone says the minute we walk away -until we REALLY know them.

Perhaps this ingrained into our DNA from the dark years (1865 until about 1968)? Freedom without Freedom? Without the most basic rights. Working and paying taxes but no liberty for contribution?

I dunno. . .

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)


Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:07 AM

45. excellent thread

 

Last edited Fri Mar 20, 2015, 06:17 PM - Edit history (1)

and to another on here, thanks Randy 1, I truly understand and commiserate with you on your point yet I do have friends of a certain racial persuasion that are truly not racist and they do speak up when the situation calls for it......that IS part of an eventual solution, one day... I hope.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #45)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 02:27 PM

49. He got a hide for standing in his truth

Unbelievable. But - all one has to do is click and see the words he wrote.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 06:20 PM

53. well as Orwell said

 

"all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others". actually in 'Animal Farm', the word pig was used, but I took that as possibly offensive to some, so i took the benign declaration......

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2015, 12:00 PM

48. There are two types of progressives

 

One type is open-minded and tolerant because they really are open-minded and tolerant.

The other type pretends to be open-minded and tolerant because they feel it gives them an appearance of moral superiority and a certain 'cool factor' if you will. Yet when they feel it's no longer important to keep up appearances for one reason or another, they drop the mask and reveal their true, hateful selves.

Quite a few of that second type exist here on DU. Perhaps it's the anonymity of the internet, but they're especially easy to spot in race-related threads. Usually they're more worried about perceived over generalizations in regard to whites than about real racism against minorities, they're downplaying racism, or they're telling minorities how they should feel about certain acts of racism.

At least conservatives tend to embrace their hateful nature and aren't shy about showing off homophobia, racism, sexism, and so forth. You can spot them from a mile away. That second type of progressive is worse in how they try to deceive fellow liberals.

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Response to Matrosov (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:03 AM

56. +1000

 

truth

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Sun Mar 22, 2015, 11:05 AM

57. Defenders of the murdering racist officer in Ferguson are everywhere, here at DU and in life

i am visiting family and it is almost unanimous, he deserved to die for jaywalking




people who pretend to be liberal but until they can grow up about race, i dont know what to call them

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Response to Jamaal510 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2015, 07:06 PM

58. How many white liberals have black friends and spend time around black people?

It's a racist, segregated society, and white liberals live in it, too.

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