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Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:35 AM

Oh, There is something wrong all right

(Thank you 1StrongBlackMan)
#BLM is now under the bus--as far as I've seen anything tossed.

I'll tell you what, Sanders had one rally--wasn't even his rally he was just there --interrupted. He then went on to speak to thousands of adoring fans. I don't know the racial composition, but probably the same as usual. All hell breaks loose because a grassroots organization for African American people, started because they are being shot dead on the street DARED to confront a white liberal--who happens to be very popular. If people are really paying attention, this isn't the first time, or the second, or the 100th time white liberals have been critizised by PoC--far from it.

It's much like white feminism. As a white feminist, I HAVE to acknowledge we have failed women of color. Not all of us and not all the time, but consistently and it's only fairly recently that strong voices of these women (those who are not poets and authors) are speaking out to the point they're being heard, to the point white women make the effort to cross the divide. I think it was Bravenek who said "you have to come to us, we aren't going to you" and that's how it should be given all the history that's gone before.

All the history that's gone before--an important point I think

Bravenak tried, as hard as I've seen anyone try, to reach across racial divides and get folks to listen. I saw her comments, read her OP's tried to learn, as much as I could -as another white person--from what she was trying to say. (No Hillary fan, she) And she was shut down.

Something wrong? It's probably an understatement.

49 replies, 3881 views

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply Oh, There is something wrong all right (Original post)
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 OP
GP6971 Aug 2015 #1
MuseRider Aug 2015 #2
nichomachus Aug 2015 #40
MuseRider Aug 2015 #41
lunamagica Aug 2015 #3
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #4
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #13
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #21
chervilant Aug 2015 #46
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #48
still_one Aug 2015 #5
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #8
Fast Walker 52 Aug 2015 #10
zappaman Aug 2015 #12
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #31
Fast Walker 52 Aug 2015 #38
still_one Aug 2015 #15
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #33
still_one Aug 2015 #44
SoapBox Aug 2015 #9
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #16
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #11
BlueJazz Aug 2015 #17
mcar Aug 2015 #6
jalan48 Aug 2015 #7
shenmue Aug 2015 #18
mudstump Aug 2015 #22
840high Aug 2015 #27
heaven05 Aug 2015 #14
malthaussen Aug 2015 #18
Indepatriot Aug 2015 #20
840high Aug 2015 #28
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #29
demwing Aug 2015 #35
Buzz505 Aug 2015 #23
brer cat Aug 2015 #26
brer cat Aug 2015 #24
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #30
brer cat Aug 2015 #32
prayin4rain Aug 2015 #25
gordianot Aug 2015 #34
LiberalArkie Aug 2015 #36
gordianot Aug 2015 #37
LiberalArkie Aug 2015 #39
MisterP Aug 2015 #42
Number23 Aug 2015 #43
Cha Aug 2015 #45
TBF Aug 2015 #47
octoberlib Aug 2015 #49

Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:41 AM

1. Great post!

K & R!

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:46 AM

2. Very good post.

Never does any progress get made by people who sit around waiting for the people who hold them down (or in this case shoot them down) to tell them it is OK to say something.

I will miss bravenak. I do hope she comes back.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 04:07 PM

40. Yes, I clearly remember all the times

That Martin Luther King disrupted rallies, roughed up a US senator and prevented him from speaking, holding the crowd hostage for a four-minute (WTF?) "moment of silence."

There is a lot of territory between "sitting around waiting" and committing assault and battery (which is what it was) on a US Senator.

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 04:45 PM

41. I would disagree

in these times when it is perfectly OK to hold protesters in "free speech zones", when enormous marches are reported as 100's of people, when peaceful protesters get routed out of their area and shot at with all manner of weapons, when a million signatures on a petition can be counted as only 1 opinion.

Society has become rough and ignorant and far too trusting of news sources who report just what they want to hear.

What MLK did in his time was really something courageous and was met with brute force many times and the news reflected it and society reacted. Recently protests that are peaceful are met with brute force and that situation in this country is met with a deafening "meh".

I will not and can not tell a group I do not belong to what or how to be heard. I do agree that there was some aggression that is not acceptable for anyone to do. Still, I am not black. I am not gay. I am not from another country. I am female and deal with that, but for the most part I have privilege dripping from me whenever I wake up and put my feet on the floor.

BLM will do what that segment of the black population wants done. There are others doing other things. If POC want this to be different they will eventually be able to control it. Far be it for this old white lady to interfere in what they feel needs to happen. I don't have to like it. They did not ask me and they should not ask me.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:47 AM

3. K&R.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:50 AM

4. Same here.

"It's much like white feminism. As a white feminist, I HAVE to acknowledge we have failed women of color. Not all of us and not all the time, but consistently and it's only fairly recently that strong voices of these women (those who are not poets and authors) are speaking out to the point they're being heard, to the point white women make the effort to cross the divide. I think it was Bravenek who said "you have to come to us, we aren't going to you" and that's how it should be given all the history that's gone before."

It was Black feminist critique of white feminism that made me realize that it is important to not replicate oppression in activist circles. You are not an ally if you get angry feelings from listening to a point of view from someone you claim to be supporting. Listen harder.


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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:21 PM

13. +1 ...

 

Can I borrow this:

You are not an ally if you get angry feelings from listening to a point of view from someone you claim to be supporting.


There is an OP out there entitled: How not to treat your allies. Though I haven't read it yet ... I suspect it's going to be yet another "why do you treat me so badly by telling me that I don't represent/misunderstand your interests as you see them" post.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:03 PM

21. Please do!

This is one of the DU tropes that drives me up the wall. "You are alienating me with your tone!!11" How nice it must be to just have hurt feelings.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:31 AM

46. This:

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."



This situation has been a grim reality for decades...

I hope bravenak will come back. Hers is an essential voice.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:39 AM

48. And, sadly, it is not only the white moderate ...

 

We are seeing the same sentiment among progressives.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:51 AM

5. A point. This was not a town hall or a general rally Bernie gave, it was to specifically

address social security and Medicare

What if BLM was giving a rally to discuss abuses of African Americans in America, and a few people demanded they be given the microphone to talk about an entirely different subject

I suspect I will be accused of being against BLM, by this comment, which couldn't be further from the truth.

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:11 PM

8. I live in Seattle

I know what it was for. And Sanders was a guest--his personal rally was later in front of 12,000 people at the University of Washington. I'm not accusing you of anything, except perhaps of missing the point.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:17 PM

10. and your avatar suggests an anti-Sanders agenda

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:20 PM

12. How is an avatar from Blade Runner "anti-Sanders"?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:43 PM

31. Heh!

Glad somebody recognizes it

He probably means Hillary's logo by my name. And he's wrong, I don't have an anti-Sanders agenda, I have a pro-Hillary preference.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:54 PM

38. yes, I was referring to the profile pic or whatever it is called

 

And fair enough if you are pro-Hillary. I just hope people don't get so involved with one candidate that they won't support the other if their original preferred candidate doesn't get the nomination.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:34 PM

15. So the first one was not about social security and Medicare, because that is what I gathered from

news reports. Even if he was a guest, wasn't this about the anniversary of Medicare? If not, I made a wrong conclusion and appologize

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Response to still_one (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:48 PM

33. No you are correct

What it wasn't was a Sandes rally. Our excellent Socialist city council member Kshama Sawant was there as well as others.


Sanders rally attracted thousands of people and was able to carry his message to an supportive and enthusiastic audeniance.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:27 PM

44. Appreciate the clarification, thanks

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:14 PM

9. Yup.

And there is a complete failure to acknowledge this.

They want what they want and that is all they are interested in...even when others are trying to talk to them and support them and help...you're still SHOUTED down...it's never ever good enough.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:41 PM

16. Just like being black in America!


They want what they want and that is all they are interested in...even when others are trying to talk to them and support them and help...you're still SHOUTED down...it's never ever good enough.

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:17 PM

11. That only works if you flatten the urgency of racism to any other subject.

Are old people being shot in the street by cops for being old?

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:46 PM

17. Exactly. It was an idiotic stunt by 3 misguided individuals. I'm especially pissed because..

 

(and Damn it..I swore I'd never let this be known)..I've given a LOT of money and more so..a lot of my time supporting black causes and these 3 HAVE to make a spectacle of themselves. NOT because of what they said but where they said it. Fuck!..couldn't they have gone to some republican speech event but NOOO..they have to pick on the one person that is really going to try to make their lives better.

And worse now..a lot of people think they have just made the whole BLM thing worse. Thanks a lot

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:03 PM

6. K&R

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:09 PM

7. It's good to see not all candiates are trying to control their public apperances.

I guess we should thank Bernie for given BLM a platform to air their concerns. Without working together chances of finding solutions are slim to none.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:48 PM

18. He didn't give them a platform.

He left without saying anything.

"Giving them a platform" is a unique characterization that makes it look like he wanted that to happen.

He didn't exactly look like he invited them up there. If he was happy they were there, he would have said something to the crowd, even something brief.

He didn't. Again, he froze up and dropped the ball.

Not a good sign.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:04 PM

22. From what I saw in the video

Bernie was willing to let them speak. He even tried to talk to them. They continued to yell and scream and so, Bernie backed away. You can't discuss complicated issues with people who want to shout and not listen. I don't blame him for backing off. Would you like him to get in a shouting match with them? What would that accomplish? He gave them the mike and let them have at it. Did they accomplish their goals after they had the mike? Did they state their grievances? Did they offer solutions? Did the audience come away with a greater sense of their issues?

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Response to mudstump (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:28 PM

27. That's what I saw on the video.

 

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:33 PM

14. "under the bus"?

 

just here and many have a hand in it. I have looked at those hypocrites, not Bernie, a lot of his supporters and just shake my head at how deluded they are to think they cannot be seen for what they are. One small clue..they are not allies, never have been of POC. Bravenak tried, but it's "business as usual" with people. Marginalize, shut down , diminish if they are not saying, doing or thinking like we tell them to do.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:48 PM

18. Funny, I thought it was the GOP that was the party of deference.

I could insert a few thoughts about "genuflecting" and "forelock-pulling," but there's no need to belabor the point: populist and progressive voices are always going to be stilled by those who support the status quo, as often as not in the name of decorum or some other sacred cow.

I wonder what Mr Sanders himself thinks about it, rather than his followers.

-- Mal

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:56 PM

20. Would LOVE to see the reactions from Hillary supporters if BLM or any other group pulled this at one

 

of her events....not gonna happen though, cause her security detail keeps all "civilians" at a safe distance from her. Maybe that's why her policies reflect such a huge disconnect from what the average American goes through on a daily basis. BLM really blew it on this one...

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Response to Indepatriot (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:29 PM

28. They would have been arrested

 

at a Hillary rally.

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Response to Indepatriot (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:39 PM

29. I would expect it.

Even welcome it. Hillary has reached out to the AA political community, but that could be seen as political pragmatism. I don't see it that way, but it could be seen that way by her detractors as well as some in the general AA community. The fact remains she went to them, she understands she cannot win without them.

None of which will keep an activist group such as #BLM form protesting her if it will help their voice be heard. And I will listen to that voice, not dismiss it.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:25 PM

35. It's more than just having your voice heard

 

it's having your message listened to.

Not that it matters....I don't believe that the Seattle disruptors were really BLM members. I smell Koch brand politics.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:05 PM

23. OK

I really think that in order to serve justice equally, these same people should take their movement to a Trump or Walker gathering, or are they ok with "their" efforts in addressing the issues? Realize who the real problem is, don't just grand stand to get press.

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Response to Buzz505 (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:14 PM

26. Why would they waste their time doing that?

Trump and Walker and their supporters wouldn't listen to a word, understand a word, or ever care. Further, they are not running to represent the democratic party. Bernie is and he needs to listen to the needs of the constituents he proposes to represent. Pretty simple concept.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:09 PM

24. Excellent post, ism.

There isn't much sanity on DU now and I appreciate your efforts. "All the history that's gone before" is a key statement and one totally ignored by many who post here.

K&R

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Response to brer cat (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:41 PM

30. Wouldn't THAT be a long OP

Several books worth!

Thank you!

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:48 PM

32. I would read it.

Stay up all night to finish it.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:14 PM

25. Bravenak is awesome and has taught me a lot. n/t

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:55 PM

34. As an old white liberal living in a sea of real RW Klan racist there is something wrong.

Living close enough to the site that gave BLM the fuel for what I consider justified fury for senseless killing of unarmed African Americans I am convinced the Federal inquiry got it wrong regarding affiliation elements in the Ferguson Police department especially the shooter. Same local Klan elements flocked St. Louis and they even showed up in media and today brag openly in conversation regarding their connections. Being total bull shit liars little is to be believed. The old white Jewish Liberal guy is not BLM's enemy nor are his followers (yet). I suggest focus on DOJ and oddball groups in law enforcement. Something is very wrong.

If a Republican gets elected next year real world Fascism has won.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)


Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:47 PM

37. Your post wins the day that radio station has it correct.

I would add to that when corporate non profits actually turn loose of money in foundations they tend to be kick back schemes and a tax dodge. Also these stupid trade deals will be the death of us all. It is so easy to divide, divide and divide yet again.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #37)


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:22 PM

42. shove enough people outside a Hermetic, gate-kept kaffee klatch and someone might shove back

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:52 PM

43. "this isn't the first time, or the second, or the 100th time white liberals have been critizised by

POC"

You could not be more correct. But for some white liberals, wrapping themselves tight in the knowledge that they could never, ever possibly ever be racist is more important than actually listening to the perspectives of oppressed minorities who are telling them the EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE.

K&R

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:06 AM

45. Brilliant OP, ismnotwasm.. Thank you so much! Something deeply wrong..

and we will keep fighting this. It's far from over. they got bravenak shut up of now because they cannot handle the truth.

But, the truth is still out there and they can't keep shutting up bravenak and voices like hers forever. Not. even. close.

Mahalo

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:07 AM

47. You missed the part about the lead protester

being a Sarah Palin fan. https://twitter.com/timallik/status/630357152733995008/photo/1

So, now it becomes more clear as to why Bernie is being targeted. I had erroneously thought this might have Hillary Clinton roots, but now we see that it is right wing shenanigans yet again. I should have known.

As far as Bravenak, I respect and appreciate her voice. I hope admin looks at the contributing factors and reinstates her.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:05 PM

49. Excellent post. Thank you

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