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Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:05 PM

It's quite clear the DU isn't ready for Black Liberation...

The reactions to the OP/video interview of Marissa Janae Johnson says it all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027065423

Her words are not resonating, even if they're perfectly clear and reasoned.

68 replies, 3669 views

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Reply It's quite clear the DU isn't ready for Black Liberation... (Original post)
MrScorpio Aug 2015 OP
Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #1
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #4
BainsBane Aug 2015 #5
Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #7
BainsBane Aug 2015 #14
Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #2
Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #8
Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #9
mcar Aug 2015 #42
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #3
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #6
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #12
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #13
Lisa D Aug 2015 #26
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #28
mcar Aug 2015 #43
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #33
guillaumeb Aug 2015 #36
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #10
nc4bo Aug 2015 #11
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #15
UtahLib Aug 2015 #16
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #17
UtahLib Aug 2015 #18
OriginalGeek Aug 2015 #19
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #20
Quayblue Aug 2015 #30
OriginalGeek Aug 2015 #32
nc4bo Aug 2015 #21
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #22
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #24
UtahLib Aug 2015 #31
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #39
lib87 Aug 2015 #23
kwassa Aug 2015 #25
lib87 Aug 2015 #40
Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #56
HassleCat Aug 2015 #27
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #29
brer cat Aug 2015 #45
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #65
LanternWaste Aug 2015 #34
d_r Aug 2015 #60
Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #35
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #37
Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #38
SoLeftIAmRight Aug 2015 #41
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #44
Number23 Aug 2015 #46
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #48
Number23 Aug 2015 #58
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #59
greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #53
Person 2713 Aug 2015 #55
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #47
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #49
NuclearDem Aug 2015 #50
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #51
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #52
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #54
Exultant Democracy Aug 2015 #57
Person 2713 Aug 2015 #61
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #62
giftedgirl77 Aug 2015 #63
gwheezie Aug 2015 #64
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #66
Scuba Aug 2015 #67
Cha Aug 2015 #68

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:10 PM

1. Yes. Crystal clear that folks are conflating racial liberation as being a personal attack on the white

race.

And demonizing one woman that spoke out and is speaking out again, but now no one wants to listen to the deeper message beyond the hashtags and the headlines and Twitter deep thought.

These protests and explanations are trying to prove the opposite, it is an invitation to join as allies.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:14 PM

4. I'm going to post this Salon article again, because I don't think that we can get enough of it:

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/white_americas_racial_illiteracy_why_our_national_conversation_is_poisoned_from_the_start_partner/

White America’s racial illiteracy: Why our national conversation is poisoned from the start

The author of "What Does It Mean to Be White?" examines the ways white people implode when they talk about race
DR. ROBIN DIANGELO, THE GOOD MEN PROJECT

I am white. I have spent years studying what it means to be white in a society that proclaims race meaningless, yet is deeply divided by race. This is what I have learned: Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need.

Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.

Mainstream dictionary definitions reduce racism to individual racial prejudice and the intentional actions that result. The people that commit these intentional acts are deemed bad, and those that don’t are good. If we are against racism and unaware of committing racist acts, we can’t be racist; racism and being a good person have become mutually exclusive. But this definition does little to explain how racial hierarchies are consistently reproduced.

Social scientists understand racism as a multidimensional and highly adaptive system—a system that ensures an unequal distribution of resources between racial groups. Because whites built and dominate all significant institutions, (often at the expense of and on the uncompensated labor of other groups), their interests are embedded in the foundation of U.S. society.


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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:15 PM

5. white fragility

the impediment to anti-racism.

I actually didn't know that thread had been posted when I created mine because I finally put that member on ignore yesterday. I'm afraid to read the comments. I find it all so disheartening.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:18 PM

7. The comments from some who are liberally posting Strawman nonsense elsewhere that they do not even care to listen to

the video...I find personally shocking.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:34 PM

14. I can't take it anymore

It's toxic and hateful. It is so incredibly unjust. It pains me. I can't remained mired in this degree of privilege and hostility to human rights and equality. I have to do something to make this world better, and here I am only wallowing with those who seek to hold it back.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:13 PM

2. Wow.

 

"When the problem is resolved, the solution isn't going to involve BLM. They aren't interested in a resolution, they see continued conflict as a vehicle for their power-trip."

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:19 PM

8. Missed that one....shocking how defensive it all is, as if suddenly the white race is the victim!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:21 PM

9. The poutrage over the "sipping on white tears" photo

 

is amazing. "It's divisive!" "It calls for the pain and suffering of a whole race of people!"

Me, I love that picture. And the one's that are crying about it are the ones that it's aimed at.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:35 PM

42. Oh it is Doc

It all hurts my heart. "None so blind as those who will not see" and all that.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:14 PM

3. were the reactions aimed at the concept of black liberation,

or at MJ Johnson's personal opinions as expressed to Imani Gandy?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:16 PM

6. Pretty much all of the above.

Marissa was clearly discussing her opposition against white supremacy and that was described as "crazy talk."

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:24 PM

12. The US was founded on the concept of white, Christian, english speaking supremacy.

I do not see discussion of this as "crazy talk". Most US history shows this. But many liberals, progressives, and leftists cannot accept that the US is a white supremacist country. Or cannot accept that ALL white Americans benefit from white supremacy. We, meaning white people, are not all millionaires, we are not economically equal to the white millionaires, but as whites, we will not be questioned as to why we are walking/driving/shopping in a particular area. It is accepted and understood that we have a right to go wherever we wish to go.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:28 PM

13. Bingo...

But when you look at the push back to that narrative, I hope that you've noticed that the responses are framed in terms of citing white feelings as a tool to derail the conversation.

White supremacy harms everyone in this country, including whites themselves. It's also pretty difficult to get that point across to some as well.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:22 PM

26. ^^This^^

As a 50-something white woman, I've never worried when a cop pulled me over on the road.
I've never had an employee follow me around in a store.
No one crossed to the other side of the street when they saw me walking toward them.
I wasn't refused a job because of the color of my skin.
I didn't worry that a landlord wouldn't rent to me.

That's what white supremacy means, and I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface.
The truth is that I'm basically clueless about the experience of living black in America. And I'm not insulted when someone points that out to me.




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Response to Lisa D (Reply #26)


Response to Lisa D (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:36 PM

43. So well said Lisa

50 something white woman here too.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:48 PM

33. I question how any white person could call themselves a leftist and not realize they have white privilege

It seems like the essence of conservative thinking to believe we all start off the same and have the same path in life in this country. I know you are right, since we are seeing this play out here and all over, but I'm still having a tough time wrapping my mind around it.

I've only been pulled over once in my life, it was uneventful. I only remember it because it was the one time. I was so embarrassed--I can't imagine that being a regular feature in my life. Or expecting that could lead to my death. Our entire system is built on white supremacist structures and we whites benefit from it in countless ways.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:12 PM

36. And as you said, it is often an unconscious thing.

It, white supremacy, is the water that we all swim in.

But not all members of DU are leftists.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:23 PM

10. Didn't watch the video (no speakers on this box)

but are the 'highlights' listed accurate? If so, I think I can see why her words are not resonating. It's a political site. Even on the left, people here are largely trying to change the system from within, not simply burn it down entirely. Bernie isn't 'left' enough for my tastes either. But he's miles ahead of anyone else running out there - he's my 'incrementalism' in making the US more socialistic and egalitarian. So if the choices are 'burn everything down' or 'attempt to change the system', I think he's a decent start on changing the system. He's not 'the end product', just a beginning. I think 'burning everything down' ends up just as poorly for people with darker skins as for people with lighter skins.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:23 PM

11. I would say some are and some not.

Only a racist can become unracist. There is no one, no group, not much of anything that can magically change a person's core beliefs except that person.

But, I'd like to say to Ms. Johnson, we CAN absolutely change the laws that oppress and were created to be racially unjust but we can NOT do it alone.

Black people are NOT the majority race in this country, we absolutely need our white allies as well as other AA civil rights groups to stand with us.

We can not go it alone.



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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:43 PM

15. The comments at their FB page are equally as terrible

And those are people using their real names! This has gone beyond whitesplaining into some ugly crowd psychology thing. I keep wanting to comment, I know I need to, but people are not even listening to even a little reason. Some things you can't unsay, people.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:46 PM

16. I just served on a jury for this post. Sorry, don't how to post results.

The alerter was shut down 7-0 to leave it. I was juror #2. I'm so sick of the alert abuse directed toward our AA posters and hope Admin is considering investigating.

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Response to UtahLib (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:49 PM

17. Thanks for letting me know...

I'd love for you to post the alert results email, if you don't mind. Just copy and paste.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:51 PM

18. I will try to do that. nt

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:51 PM

19. Here ya go


On Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:13 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's quite clear the DU isn't ready for Black Liberation...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118721455

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Ugly, false accusations against his fellow DUers.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:36 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No alerter, another ugly attempt to shut down an AA poster. You and your buddies should check yourselves.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I disagree with everything MrScorpio says in post; however, he has a right to say it. Alert Abuse.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Perfectly valid topic for the AA group. Leave it. Stay out of the group if you don't like the conversation.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see "DU isn't ready for Black Liberation" as a hideable statement, even if I side with Bernie in this dust up.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: lolwat? I'd say this alert more or less proves his accusation. On matters of being black in America, I think I'd rather let Mr Scorpio educate me. I am positive he has a better grasp on the situation than I do.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to OriginalGeek (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:54 PM

20. Thanks for the post! nt

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Response to OriginalGeek (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:34 PM

30. "Ugly, false accusations against his fellow DUers."

As if MrScorpio is a small child to be chastised after not playing nice with his playmate.

lulz

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Response to Quayblue (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:41 PM

32. lol, yup

SOMEone was a small child in that alert but it wasn't MrScorpio.

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Response to UtahLib (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:54 PM

21. The jury system leaves much to be desired.....

I think the only thing a person can do is add people to your blacklist. Meaning those people openly hostile towards you will never be asked to be on a jury involving you.

You only get to add 15 names and I'm not sure if this is a star member perk only.

On edit......non star members can onky blacklist 5 members.

I think I prefer the old DU system much better although that could easily be abused too but easier to spot.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:59 PM

22. I've always felt pretty much free to state my own mind here on DU

And frankly, I'd rather confront my detractors face to face. I think that can I deal with the jury system. Besides, I really have no idea who would alert on me or not.

If some other poster wanted to come at me, I would prefer that they'd do it out in the open.

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Response to UtahLib (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:20 PM

24. They do need to investigate.

This is a persistent and obsessive pattern with someone(s). At least one person won't be able to alert again for 24 hours though.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:38 PM

31. I value the opinions,

based on experience and knowledge of history, of the AA posters at DU. I find it to be especially disheartening to witness the condescension, anger and dismissive attitude they are faced with on a Democratic site.

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Response to UtahLib (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:24 PM

39. I totally agree.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:02 PM

23. It's Like Groundhog Day on DU

It happens every time when some Whites are confronted with an uncomfortable truth about race: Turn the conversation to focus on their 'hurt' feelings and how they are the real victims, what about MLK, what about Obama. I know this type of response is celebrated in conservative forums but I thought it would not be tolerated here. My mistake.

I'm resigned to now just playing my violin during the deflection posts.

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Response to lib87 (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:22 PM

25. "I've Got You, Babe" the same tortuous quality to it.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:47 PM

40. That Will be the Song I Hear Now.

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Response to lib87 (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 10:24 PM

56. You too?

Just planted in my head.


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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:26 PM

27. "If" would be the opertive word here

 

I don't think her words make much sense, at least not when placed in the context in which she delivered her message. Many people feel passionately about a particular issue, but to demand it be the only issue does not seem perfectly clear and reasoned.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:29 PM

29. She made perfect sense to me.

I understood exactly what she was talking about in the interview.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:12 PM

45. When the "only" issue

is life or death, maybe it does seem clear and reasoned.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:38 AM

65. It's AOK for it to be her only issue

It will not impact my life in any way at all. Wait - no - it will.

If she keeps at it maybe a police officer will think twice about throwing me to the ground and kicking a woman when she's down?

Maybe someone like my brother or nephews - my Uncle - my cousins and their sons . . . Will get justice when stalked and killed by a Zimpig type?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:57 PM

34. I'm about as obtuse as can be when it comes to seeing social issues from outside of my own comfort z

 

I'm about as obtuse as can be when it comes to seeing social issues from outside of my own comfort zone. I say that to better illustrate this: if even I, in all my obtuse naivete can see a racial divide being made greater by a willful ignorance by the BLM critics on DU, I can only imagine how obvious and frustrating it is to the members of this group.

This divide will be exploited for all its worth in the coming months, and the posters who are too clever by half will out their own bigotries and biases. But it may take some time before that happens...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:05 PM

60. The divide will be exploited in the coming months

And not just on du.

Growing pains.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:11 PM

35. I understand what was meant by "Seattle Liberal"

I don't think Seattle will be the place where black issues will find a place to launch. I have spoken to "Seattle Liberals" and these kind of issues are not something that's a part of their every day existence. But it is Liberal, and they are very conscientious and accommodating to general protests that follow city protocol. Perhaps this "unscheduled" clash was inevitable.

I will continue to listen to Marissa's point of view to look for common ground, but I will say that it's a mistake to compare a Liberal community with right-wing extremists from the South. It's a different environment entirely, and one that requires a different strategy.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:14 PM

37. I just posted another video information with Allan Johnson in this group...

I suggest that you take some time out to watch it.

It might add some clarification to this issue.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 05:19 PM

38. Thank you. I will look it over.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:26 PM

41. some here are not ready for many of the things that need to change

 

be well

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:38 PM

44. I respectfully offer that this dust is being over thought ...

 

look at those riling against BLM and take a second look at their comments. This is all, and only, about Bernie ... The vast majority only care that BLM "targeted" Bernie, as evidenced by the "why aren't they (BLM) attacking HRC/President Obama/Republicans, whomever"/"It's conspiracy111!" comments.

But this is not to say that DU is ready for Black liberation.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 08:38 PM

46. Many of the folks talking shit about #BLM have been the same ones that have RAILED against this

current president. Including before he was even sworn into office

Surely, you don't think that's a coincidence?

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Response to Number23 (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:33 PM

48. LOL ... Certainly you aren't saying ...

 

hmmm ... never mind!

I wish some DU math wiz would compute the correlation between Bernie Group posting and AA Group, HoF Group, BOG Group, LGBT Group and P&L Group blockage.

LOL.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 10:49 PM

58. Look in GD-P. The same crowd that is LOVING this shit is the same crowd that has called this

president every name they could think of. Been called out, embarrassed, etc. more times than anybody can count but they are leaping like hyenas just absolutely delirious with glee over all of this shit.

And have you noticed the group playing "Gotcha!" right now, especially with the black posters? Bringing up posts and stuff from damn near 10 years ago in an effort to show... something? I've noticed that they've gotten you before and they've gone after bigtree and Tarheel_Dem. They are the main ones who have called this president every thing they could get away with. Got called out by EVERYBODY, even by their friends. They just go away for a while and slither back again, stirring the shit. Just constantly stirring.

I guess we're not supposed to see them and what they're doing. You would think given what happened a few years ago that they would be the first ones to align themselves with #BLM and what they are trying to do. But instead, they are too busy playing "Gotcha" with meaningless shit from damn near 10 years ago to care about these issues. Why give a shit about black people getting killed when you can whine and bray endlessly that someone said something you didn't like on a message board? SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!??!!

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Response to Number23 (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:04 PM

59. True. n/t

 

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Response to Number23 (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:46 PM

53. It's no coincidence. Not at all.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 10:16 PM

55. I have not been here @DU for very long .

Good to know a little about the past.thank you

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:01 PM

47. And.. there we go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251511986

Link offered up for use in replying to folks. BLM tried to protest Hillary, although her people kept them out.

Maybe there can be less paranoia now that it can be seen they are indeed going after Hillary too.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:37 PM

49. Awww ... Ain't you so precious! ...

 

read the DU response to BLM's attempt to protest HRC.

I think you have too much faith in DU:Bernie.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #49)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:40 PM

50. It was obviously staged.

 

Er...they weren't really trying.

Uh, I mean...

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #49)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:41 PM

51. At that link, or is there another OP I missed? nt

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:45 PM

52. At the link ...

 

I know ... it' tough out there.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:49 PM

54. Not seeing it.

If we're still talking about the comments under the link to the OP I just posted, they're about how Hillary is being slick enough to keep BLM protesters out of her events, not any sort of attack on the BLM protesters trying to protest her.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 10:46 PM

57. Maybe we shouldn't use fundi christians as our messengers around here.

I've been ready for black liberation since I was born regardless I think this woman is a troll and reading about her views on her facebook page only reenforces that she isn't a person anyone on the left should be rallying around.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #57)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:16 PM

61. I liked what Gandy said about it only being a problem (along with once being conservative& now not)

if you need to be taken down. He did a great interview

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #57)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:22 PM

62. She clearly stated that her own religious conviction was the foundation for her own social activism

That's not exactly an unknown motivation in progressive circles, now is it?

It was for Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X and the Berrigan Brothers and even Sister Helen Prejean…

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:51 PM

63. K & R excellent OP & brutal truth for some.

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:01 AM

64. Some people are ready

Last year my white nephew started a shitstorm at a sedate family gathering when he said so what if whites become the minority. It will be OK My family likes to think of themselves as liberal, some of the family is black but the idea of not being a white country bothered some of the white folks. I was kinda hopeful when a few of us didn't think it was going to be a bad thing, we're kinda looking forward to it. I think it will change the country for the better.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:56 AM

66. Sickeningly clear

Appallingly clear.

I would love to be able to say "unbelievably clear" but the potential has been here all
along. Didn't take much.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:34 AM

67. K&R

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:55 AM

68. Oh those. they don't get it. They damn well resonated with me. Bains Bane turned

me onto that last night.

It was so interesting.. so glad I heard that. Felt like I was much more educated afterwards.

The reality is nothing like the majority on DU is trying to spin.. and spin it ugly.

Free Bravenak!

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