Whiteness, NSA Spying and the Irony of Racial Privilege

[jaysunb]

Tim Wise

It’s not that I’m not angry.

It’s not that I’m not disturbed, even horrified by the fact that my government thinks it appropriate to spy on people, monitoring their phone calls — to whom we speak and when — among other tactics, all in the supposed service of the national interest.

That any government thinks it legitimate to so closely monitor its people is indicative of the inherent sickness of nation-states, made worse in the modern era, where the power to intrude into the most private aspects of our lives is more possible than ever, thanks to the data-gathering techniques made feasible by technological advance.

That said, I also must admit to a certain nonchalance in the face of the recent revelations about the National Security Agency’s snooping into phone records, and the dust-up over the leaking of the NSA’s program by Ed Snowden. And as I tried to figure out why I wasn’t more animated upon hearing the revelations — and, likewise, why so many others were — it struck me. Those who are especially chapped about the program, about the very concept of their government keeping tabs on them — in effect profiling them as potential criminals, as terrorists — are almost entirely those for whom shit like this is new: people who have never before been presumed criminal, up to no good, or worthy of suspicion.
In short, they are mostly white. And male. And middle-class or above. And most assuredly not Muslim.

http://www.timwise.org/2013/06/whiteness-nsa-spying-and-the-irony-of-racial-privilege/#more-2984

[Pholus]

1. Yes, if 8 years of Bush taught me anything...

It's that about the only thing that keeps us happy is the grim thought that we're all going down together!

[Pholus]

30. Some scientists of my acquaintance always kind of hoped....

for a "defeatable" asteroid as a way of bringing humanity together.

Of course, that was when suspicion was between nation states and not about every single inhabitant of those states. The USSR split apart when the many forced constituents were allowed to pursue their own goals and many days I am sure that the Tea Party will do the same for the USA. There are surely many who see opportunities for personal gain that way.

But I digress -- Surveillance, by showing a lack of trust that cannot help but be reciprocated, accelerates the fracturing of society into INDIVIDUALS instead of nations. Thanks NSA!

[freshwest]

31. So, no comment on the OP?

[Pholus]

33. I believe my only relevant unique comment was made in June of last year.

I am well aware of the horrible double standard and as a fat pasty white guy I do understand every time I've had to go through one of those damned border patrol checkpoints in Arizona that I have a "get out of hassle free card" all over me. I also resent that one of my son's best friends lives in a world where he requires specific advice on what to wear to avoid incensing random strangers despite the fact that he's a all wonderful, clever and intelligent A student.

Is that closer to what you wanted?

[freshwest]

35. It's not my thread. n/t

[Pholus]

36. But you asked.

I guess that also begs the question of why you thought I needed to additionally comment on the OP when I already had.

[freshwest]

38. It's still not about me. I wanted additional comment, since your second reply expressed a lot more

than you generic first. EOM.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. He hit the nail on the head

I almost started a thread back here today about this very topic. Hmmm . . . How maybe we are a bit immune to this? Well - folks - welcome to the world of profiling, stereotypes, and being watched as an 'other'.

[Number23]

4. Start that thread! Where are you gonna post it?

Let me know and you know I've got your back.

[Number23]

3. LOL

After all, it is only those who have had the relative luxury of remaining in a child-like, innocent state with regard to the empire in which they reside who can be driven to such distraction by something that, compared to what lots of folks deal with every day, seems pretty weak tea.

Time Wise always knows how to break.it.down.

[freshwest]

21. That goes without saying, except some people get offended by the truth of it...

Truth is a quest that is always beautiful and liberating unless one is against it being served. Why is it such an offense here?

[Number23]

22. Reading this thread, I just noticed that SemperEadem hasn't posted in eons

Last post was July 2013 and she's been here since 2003.

It's a damn shame how the trolls here have driven so many of us off.

[freshwest]

23. Yes, on a daily basis I question being here, haven't been here long, despite my post count.

I joined DU2 after the election in 2010, in a state of total disgust. It was after 10 years of being online in political forums.

At MSN during the election of 2000, a group was founded, even before the SCOTUS finished their selection, that contended Gore had won Florida, and the vote was being suppressed. I recall the Black Caucus being the only ones with enough nerve to contest the count.

I went through all the Bush era there to keep my sanity, which was how I'd chanced upon the first group, using a search engine because of being furious at what was going on in the news, and needed to find kindred spirits.

I stayed through all of the attempts to purge Obama supporters in 2008 by PUMAs. I found them to be my first reason for never voting for Hillary, but since then I've realized supporters do not always support the ideals of their candidate, or they would not fall for the outrage media machine, examples of which we see daily.

When the legislative numbers changed in Washington under the brief leadership of Pelosi, we posted daily reports of what was affecting our numbers and when we would achieve a filibuster proof majority.

That was a very brief time, and the GOP propaganda against every single New Deal type program Obama was trying to get passed, was intense. The total obstruction, not only at the federal level, but the state level, explained a number of things not happening. Still, Obama did great things of rhe sort I hadn't seen since Carter's energy initiatives. No one seems to know it.

It was good, even after Obama won, and I posted all his initatives and follow ups there daily. Then came the beginning of the Tea Party, composed of Paulites and those still intensely angry at the Bush wars, who in desperation went to the CT sites that had gone after Bush seeking solutions. But they then went after Obama and Democrats. I later found out the pundits and sites were JBS, Koch thus Tea Party conjobs.

There came a period of fighting with the Baggers, with their racist and misogynist crap, then trying to reach out to Democrats who didn't think Obama had done enough, and hadn't been that active anywhere but online.

In the summer before losing majority in 2010, who were going to sit out the election, ceding control to the Teabaggers over things they soon forgot, except for memes easily debunked, but which they won't give up and keep repeating as gospel. When they are debunked, they don't answer, and go to spread their ignorance (or lies) to the next thread.

After 2010 on the other website, things went downhill fast. It was really disgusting. Then the really serious trolling began of mixed boards that bordered on criminal, and some of them passed that line. Shock pictures, visual and verbal attacks on women and minorities, all directed at driving away thinkers who wanted to find the reasons for deeply held beliefs on both sides, and particularly women and liberals, off the boards.

When you come to a place to talk, and are emotionally assaulted in such a way you cannot block it out in a thread, you get anxious, unwilling to open a thread for comments, and see what was inserted that was against website TOS.

At any rate, the con's purpose was accomplished, and both international and domestic posters left the cesspool that it had become. There was no talking out ideas anymore.

It was done to make people feel physically ill, and DU3 has done that for me and others on many days. I've explained to JAG and other long time posters, that it was bad for my physical health, to read the bile. It's not a game, it's serious and those who garner the most recs and get on the home page know that their hate will get in the google most posted page.

A few black posters I did not know have PM'd me over the years, glad to see my support for the ideals of Obama and progressives, but say they cannot post here anymore. I just chanced upon this thread while googling to express what I feel to someone. Glad you found time to get back to me.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Bump

Just for the hell of it and because I can.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. I probably ...

would be a good idea to post this to GD and bump it 50 times a day, every day, until it sparks discussion or it gets 100,000 views ... whichever comes first.

My bet is on the view cut off.

[jaysunb]

8. I did, but it will die on the vine no matter

where it lands. I suspect that some truths are harder to deal w/ than others.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. I guess Race ...

is the (defensive) favor of the month on DU.

I just got accused of injecting race into a discussion because I explained my newer registration date and relatively low post count is because I left DU when I got tired of white folks telling Black folks what is, and is not, racism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3051582

[freshwest]

27. That thread was unbelievable. I saw your response that started the flaming on you here:

68. Democrats that ...would prefer to live under an authoritarian state? Really?

When I read your first sentence, I thought, "Okay" ... then you proceeded to cast the argument, exactly contrary to that first line. And based on what ... not turning a blind eye to the snowden inconsistencies and a refusal to rever him as a national hero? Because some prefer to base their conclusions on FACT under the law, as written; as opposed to speculation and opinion of how the law should be interpreted? Really?

Some of us have known from day one that the American myth never was intended to apply to us and have lived under a system that has never represented our interests, except to further the interests. So with that realization, some of us are not tied to a man or a party, no matter what you wish to to believe ... those of us born as "others" are just quicker to judge but slower to condemn ... Our, literal, lives depended on it.

And those of us born outside of the myth know ... the lesser of two evils (if there is two evils) is the only game in town ... to deny that reality by not voting in/care about Federal/National elections (which BTW is the only mechanism short of revolt to correct the state you detest) is to, both, deny political reality, and to guarantee that you will, not only be subject to the state your detest; but alos subject to the "same, just a tad stronger sauce."

While I understand this matter has people on fire, let's not be consumed.

Then it devolved further. And none of them dared to address what I emboldened in the text, which fits perfectly with what this thread is about. I think too many people have lived in that 'innocence' afforded them to believe that hard choices must be made to save others.

Lives, which, I contend, do not matter to them or they would stop a minute and support those who are actually trying to change things for the better, in a world that has always been unfair. Real people being affected by small decisions,for whom purity is a luxury.

They only use those others as it is inconvenient, never in it for the long haul. You handled the flamers very well, 1SBM.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. I am convinced that ...

our life experience, as "the other(s)", stands as the distinguishing point for our approach to politics/political relationships. There has never been a time in history, where Black folks have had the luxury to kid ourselves into believe that any politician, or political party, held our interests in true regard, other than as a means to further their own personal or professional ends. Yet, we, with open and clear eyes, overwhelmingly support Democrats and the Democratic party, because we recognize the alternatives (be they the gop, with their racism, or libertarians, with their fantasy-based ideology) are far more harmful to our collective interests.

So, the reviled "lesser of two evils", and its operational twin, "Not as bad as" campaigns, holds no particular pain to us, as it is as it always has been.

[freshwest]

34. Yes, purity tests are not the traits of survivors, but those who are above that. Since I have in

general had to make painful choices to survive, some of those niceties escape me. I plead guilty to no longer having illusions of being pure or even innocent about just how bad things can get. So I have to work at my level. I am striving to save what is good, I can't wait for a utopia that will likely never arrive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. Word! ...

progress, whether political or societal, is a frustratingly slow grind; but we must never mistake "slow" for "no."

That's what the Civil Rights Movement taught me.

[freshwest]

39. That's just what I was thinking yesterday. No instant gratification there, nope, there wasn't.

It did not fit one or more media outrage spin cycles and had no flashy, jet setting spokespersons. Which seems to be the barometer of activism here at DU.

It was just plain, everyday people with a few that we have dubbed saints later. There were so many who were abused and killed whose stories were know, a 100Xs more who will stay nameless.

There has been change, but not the full transformation needed. It is coming, though, may not look the same as once thought, but it's coming. Just because it's late, it will still get here.

BTW, did you see this damned thing?

Tenn. official ‘threatened’ blacks with skin ‘trophy’ he saved from 1896 lynching

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014733706

He only got fired, though. And I kinda lost my temper on that thread.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Yeah ...

I saw that thread.

I, also, saw some DUers minimalizing his conduct!

That's why I can't take DU too seriously, as a forum for change.

[freshwest]

41. Well, I am glad I missed the whitewashers. Must be on my Iggy list. Some of them think I'm gonna

talk to 'em. I find no advantage in taking them off to read what they say to me. I've heard it all before.

No, can't take DU seriously, when it's apparent so many are not Democratics and don't care about real people, only media darlings.

Just doesn't work for me.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Funny ...

Wise touched on what I, rather inartfully, was touching on here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3044731

It seems that conservatives are not the only ones afflicted.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Don't engage with her

FYI - Just don't enage.

First - That one several years ago tried to make the argument that folks who came over from Europe had the exact same experience as slaves. I put her on ignore - which is very VERY rare.


ETA: Then I took her off of ignore as well as one other person about two months ago. After being on there for a couple of years . . .


Second - About a month ago someone tipped me off that she is a bit of a fraudster. I.E. Her stories don't match up, and she's been everywhere, done everything, held every position imaginable. I guess a few years ago that came to light.

At the end of the day - there is nothing in TOS that states one cannot lie about who they are. Between my blog which leads to my twitter account - I can say . . . I am who I am. She can't - so I'm calling her out.

But you - don't you engage with her. You are a higher caliber person overall and that is beneath you. Yeppers -I'm kind of a snot like that.

[SemperEadem]

12. LOL.. that's like that saying

don't wrestle with a pig--you'll end up getting dirty and the pig will love it...

[SemperEadem]

11. there it is! Tim Wise nails it once again.

it's akin to driving while black... living while in America---by those who were intent upon giving up their freedoms in exchange for security back when Bush was in office.

But now, since the tea party has got armed idiots showing up at rallies across from the capitol, and republicans are joking about murdering the president, the fact that the government is now "pulling them over for no good reason" by collecting their information, it's a problem... that kind of stuff never happens to "us"; it is supposed to only happen to "them".

Welcome to how it's been for black folks forever...

[Number23]

13. You guys need to see JustAnotherGen's posts in this thread

Girlfriend is KICKING SOME ASS http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3061064

[SemperEadem]

15. That was a thing of beauty

well done, JustAnotherGen!

the guilty always pop up and make the most noise about that which, by their own definition, should not pertain to them.

I want to say: If you aren't guilty, then why you are owning it? You can't speak for anyone but yourself, so if it doesn't apply, why is your mouth yapping?

I say just because it's not your reality doesn't mean it's not a reality TO/FOR SOMEONE ELSE

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Okay ...

I just read JAG's post (without reading the comments yet) ...

SISTER GIRL PUT IT DOWN FROM THE GATE!

I'm pretty certain that the Leftist of DU Leftists will taken great offense ... despite JAG's clear "If the shoe don't fit; I ain't talking about you" admonition.

... Okay, I'll read the thread now!

[carolinayellowdog]

14. an island of sane commentary in an ocean of racial trollery

between the outright demagogic race-baiting of the white NSA defenders, and the outraged "who, me?" pile-ons by people who should know better than to feed trolls, I've reached the point where I don't want to read anything white people here have to say about racial or regional issues. So I'm here hoping to be welcomed and having admired JustAnotherGen's posts elsewhere.

My DNA is only 1.6% African according to the latest estimate, but my immediately family more than half black and biracial. The blindness of many whites to white privilege-- whether southern rednecks or more likely northern redneck haters who think they're post-racial-- is exasperating any day of the week. Throw in the NSA issue and it becomes really demoralizing. But a teachable moment if voices like Tim Wise are heard at this point in time.

Thanks for posting it.

[SemperEadem]

16. Tim Wise is in the middle of doing a documentary

on his work... he was doing some funding drive last week--I wished I had a few extra $$ to put towards it before the drive was over.

[Number23]

18. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned

you are MOST welcome here.

[carolinayellowdog]

19. thanks, this forum feels like a refuge

I was getting headaches from those threads in GD about race but like what I see here.

[freshwest]

28. Agreed. And this thread should have more Recs. n/t

[Whisp]

20. That should hit like a ton of bricks!

Those who are especially chapped about the program, about the very concept of their government keeping tabs on them — in effect profiling them as potential criminals, as terrorists — are almost entirely those for whom shit like this is new: people who have never before been presumed criminal, up to no good, or worthy of suspicion

but it won't.

[Blue_Tires]

24. How did I miss this?

kick...

[Anansi1171]

26. Nail, meet head. -nt

[ZombieHorde]

29. Interesting. nt