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Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:47 AM

Human Nature.

I generally look at DU homepage and move on to the AA group. But this title caught my eye: Again... "In Front Of His Staff" - MLK, Bernie Sanders, And Democratic Socialism... http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251867869

Cursoring down the replies, I saw this "Well all evidence points to the fact that humans are fundamentally built for racism...but how it manisfests is a learned phenomenon due to social factors." Fundamentally built, WOW!

There are 3 things that bother me. One: asking the poster for evidence and getting none for such a bold statement. Two: the poster chose to answer with a PM, still with no evidence. I haven't done much PMing but PMing an answer seems unusual to me. It feels like the poster throws stuff out there publicly but wants to privately block my response, so I choose to share it here. And with a moderator's permission, I will invite poster here.

The third thing that bothers me is these carless assumptions are what leads directly to policy http://ann.sagepub.com/content/661/1/212.abstract https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/09/28/born-that-way-scientific-racism-is-creeping-back-into-our-thinking-heres-what-to-watch-out-for/

PM is here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=inbox&view=2083189 I counter the poster's argument from this line: "I know you will still disagree with me."

Yes and wholeheartedly so. First of all, Iím still waiting for even one iota of biological evidence for racism. Since there's none forthcoming, then Iíll explain to you where your confusion lies. You are conflating the fight or flight response that's a normal reaction in all animals with learned racism. The mechanism for FoF is initiated in our amygdala that triggers a series of responses from heart rate to salivation to tunnel vision to shaking and a lot more. But the organ is an inherent mechanism working to ward off danger and protect ourselves, so we can either run or fight for our lives.

How we categorize people is a social phenomenon shaped by stereotypes. How we react, flight or fight, is influenced by stereotyping. Repeat categorization of people - black, white, Latino, Asian and characteristics associated with each group - is a social phenomenon. Once upon a time, our survival depended upon how quickly we could identify a threat but we're not born automatically believing in these construct. The amygdala is not programmed for racism but is activated when any negative stimuli is in the environment and exposure to negative stimuli is constant learned behavior in our society.

There is so much science on this that I have to stop myself from being surprised that these fallacious and dangerous beliefs are not readily refuted. It seems it's not only republicans who are adverse to science. I've provided some links for you below.

As far as the Tutsis and Hutus, once again, the conflict has very little to do with what you've imagined. This is one of the best quick answers from a longer response. "It is important to remember that what happened during the colonial and post-colonial era was not simply that the Germans and Belgians imposed racial ideas onto Africans who were not really separate 'tribes' or even separate ethnic groups, since they all spoke the same language and held the same religious beliefs. Iíll get to that next. But the point to be made here is that the Rwandans unfortunately had to contend with colonialists at the tail end of a hundred years of political turmoil and war in which farmers were being severely oppressed by the Rwanda chiefs and everybody was scrambling to gain stakes in the new political game created by the colonial administrators.

Colonial scholars created a race hypothesis for Rwanda based on phenotype. Tutsis were thought to be a superior race of Nilotic people who had migrated into the area from the north, conquered supposedly indigenous Hutus, and imposed their superior culture and statecraft on the them. Tutsi were thought to have an aristocratic culture and to be natural rulers. They were thought to be racially different from Hutus. Phenotypically, they were thought to be lighter skinned, higher nosed, and taller."
https://www.quora.com/Belgium/How-did-the-Belgians-legitimize-their-preference-for-the-Tutsi

As far as Nazi Germany, it's quite easy to research the creation of the construct of the Aryan race.

Here are some links for further reading. Let the information sink in to get some clarity.

https://soundcloud.com/inquiringminds/33-david-amodio-the-science-of-prejudice Interview of New York University neuroscientist David Amodio, an expert on the psychology of intergroup bias

http://www.strategicleadershipinstitute.net/news/your-racist-brain-the-neuroscience-of-conditioned-racism/

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/is-there-a-gene-for-racism/209831.article

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/new-evidence-that-racism-isnt-natural/263785/]]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2555431/

http://www.mintpressnews.com/MyMPN/racism-inherent-learned/

26 replies, 1984 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Human Nature. (Original post)
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 OP
randys1 Dec 2015 #1
Digital Puppy Dec 2015 #2
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #7
betsuni Dec 2015 #3
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #8
JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #4
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #10
Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #5
JI7 Dec 2015 #9
JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #14
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #11
JI7 Dec 2015 #6
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #12
Number23 Dec 2015 #13
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #15
The Polack MSgt Dec 2015 #16
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #17
betsuni Dec 2015 #21
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #18
scarletwoman Dec 2015 #19
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #20
scarletwoman Dec 2015 #24
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #25
scarletwoman Dec 2015 #26
Number23 Dec 2015 #22
Kind of Blue Dec 2015 #23

Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 12:33 PM

1. RAcism and bigotry are taught and learned behaviour , environmental. Nobody, ever, is born racist.

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Response to randys1 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 01:03 PM

2. Agreed...

The poster is conflating his belief with facts. Hard to take them seriously about anything else they say or claim.

Reminds me of the saying, "In God we trust: All others, bring data"

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Response to randys1 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:09 PM

7. Thank you!

And not something that's a belief.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 02:31 PM

3. I saw that. Absurd.

It's such a stupid idea that my brains shut down before I can even start to think about how stupid it is. Chapter one of "Anthropology for Dummies" would clear this right up.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:12 PM

8. Ha! Chapter one of "Anthropology for Dummies"

And that's our problem: Ethno Dummies Rule our society.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 02:38 PM

4. Didn't want

To respond to you in the open? Hmm . . .

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:21 PM

10. I'm smh, too.

I think poster knows the answer but will not let facts publicly replace beliefs. I think there's no shame in being wrong, especially when there's a chance to correct this ridiculously harmful belief even in a small way.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 04:38 PM

5. I think people like to blame "genetics" as a source for social behavior

because they think that lets them off the hook for trying to improve it. (See, evo psyche.) If it is just nature, we can't help it, amiright?

Great links Kind of Blue!

But of course, social behaviors are learned and can be changed. There is ton of research on how white babies are inculcated with racist biases picked up from the adults in their lives at a very early age. https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/06/09/harvard-researcher-says-children-learn-racism-quickly/gWuN1ZG3M40WihER2kAfdK/story.html



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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:15 PM

9. i think germany is a good case of this

The country it is today and what it was just about 70 years ago.

I think most minorities would find germany more accepting today than many of the allied nations from back then.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 05:01 AM

14. I found it more accepting

As a four year old in 1977 than as a five year old in America in 1978.

The Older Germans were so kind to us.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:39 PM

11. Thank you for the link, Starry Messenger!

I can't help but think that strongly believing such a thing with no evidence has to mean absolution for maintainint the status quo. There is just no good excuse for stereotyping people. It's what gets a boy blamed for his own murder, a girl tossed from her desk like a rag another one sat on, both by grown men, not to mention policies on all levels and bias in healthcare based on scientific racism.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:21 PM

6. just so you know thst poster has been treating minorities like this for a long time

The Stockholm thread should talk you all you need to know.

He also ignore facts put out by people that disprove the things he pushes.


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Response to JI7 (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 06:50 PM

12. Thanks, JI7. I still don't know many people here.

Ha! I just saw that post was hidden. So I guess poster is not coming here for relief from delusions. It would be interesting to allow a jury at the original Stockholm thread again. It's funny that the person who obviously has the syndrome is the one accusing people trying to stop the system of supremacy that's capture us all. And now this one chimes in supporting him with beliefs based in fantasy

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 01:31 AM

13. Your soul (and stomach) must be strong indeed to endure that level of "discourse" from those

individuals. Most of us have long since written them off as lost causes.

Everyone with even half a brain knows that racism and bigotry are learned. Anyone who says otherwise is a blithering idiot and so not worth your time.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:59 PM

15. That's for sure and I'm learning who the provacateurs

of absolutely useless and false information are.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 03:08 PM

16. I don't understand the underlying research

But this topic summary from a questionable source is easy and conforms to my preconceived opinion.

SCIENCE!!!11!1

(my guess at Willie's thought process - on pretty much everything)

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Response to The Polack MSgt (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 04:14 PM

17. Ha!

Couldn't have said it better if I tried.

It wasn't Willy this time but definitely a like-minded person who also double-down on Stockholm Syndrome, letting all the stupid loose.

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Response to The Polack MSgt (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 01:57 AM

21. OMG. Just looked at GDP and saw three threads by our buddy.

Aimed at gays, blacks, and women. The usual. Poke poke poke.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 01:17 PM

18. Just an update that Mr/Ms. Beliefs

wants me to know Starry Messenger banned him/her from the AA group. This was while I was away from DU for years and would not have asked permission to invite Beliefs to respond here. But Beliefs says that's why there was no response to my post and again blames Starry Messenger, of course. Well, I did ask Beliefs in the post at DU-GD, where evidence could be posted for all to see. Still with his 5 subsequent PMs saying the same thing, I told Beliefs that I will not post the rebuttal PMs because they add no more info to the discussion.

This was the last one yesterday http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=inbox&view=2090267

"Okay then that settled it. You and your friends can go pat each other on the back and accuse someone from hiding from discussion when it is you and your friends who have hidden me.

If that is the self fulfilling fantasy you like to subscribe to rather than a real challenging open discussion then more power to you.

Feel free to add all of my PM's to you in full text, no edits, no links to your thread in the AA group.

I have nothing to hide and I feel I am more honest with myself than many here on DU.

Go post everything, word for word."

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:57 PM

19. Just so you know, it doesn't work to post a link to your own inbox, no one but you can access it.

If you want to share a private message from your inbox, you'll need to copy and paste it in a post.

It seems really quite cowardly to me for this person to carry on an argument with you by PM instead of responding to you in the thread.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:05 PM

20. Thanks, scarletwoman!

Yes, cowardly. I told Beliefs I refrained from using that word in my post but his PMs, that I asked not to send me, made me gladly call Belief a coward.

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 08:09 AM

24. You know, you can block him from sending any more PMs to you.

Open one of his PMs, at the top of the PM you'll find a button that says "Block this sender" - click on that. It will take you to your ignore list page where you'll see two choices: "Block Mail" or "Full Ignore". If you just want to block his PMs, choose the first one. "Full Ignore" means you won't see any of his posts in any threads at all.

Personally, I never use "Full Ignore", because I still want to be able to see whatever stupid shit someone is posting on the board, but I've used "Block Mail" on several people who have sent me unsolicitated private messages, with whom I have no interest in engaging. It's a wonderful feature!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 12:07 PM

25. Excellent, I've never put anyone on ignore

that I can remember. We can't let stupid shit slide. I need to see all, too! This DU3's feature is a nice surprise.

Done and Thanks, scarletwoman!

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 07:34 PM

26. You're very welcome! I did use full ignore for a short time in 2008, for just a few posters.

It was during the 2008 Primaries, and I finally reached a point where I just needed to stop seeing posts from certain people before I blew a gasket.

But that was on DU2, and when you put someone on ignore back then, it didn't make every post in a subthread started by that person invisible. Now on DU3, if you put someone on ignore, you also can't see any replies to that person in a thread. On DU2 you could also put someone on ignore just for their OPs, but we don't have that option now. It's all or nothing now - except for the DUmail block option. And thank goodness for that!!!!

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Response to Kind of Blue (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 02:47 AM

22. If he was banned by Starry, he was banned with good reason

None of us ban anyone lightly.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:14 AM

23. Well, yeah and told him based on

my experience I had no doubt it was for a good reason.
And Thanks, really.

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