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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 05:37 PM Apr 2017

Gabriel Valdez has something to say

In the primary, voters of color chose Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders nearly to the extent that we choose Democrats over Republicans. 78% of Black voters chose Clinton in the primary. 65% of Latinx voters chose Clinton in the primary. Sanders narrowly won one demographic - white men.

It was the biggest split between white and nonwhite voters in Democratic primary history. Yet no one bothers to ask why. To the Left Flank Progressives, it's easier to pose that people of color don't know what's good for us, like we're Stone Age regressive level voters. We were told we just didn't understand politics well enough to know what was good for us. That was the Progressive attitude of alliance to us.

People didn't consider that we were voting for a candidate by record margins in a Democratic primary, they just dismissed it. Thinking we were too stupid to understand politics was easier than thinking we might have priorities and needs that the Progressive revolution didn't know because they hadn't lived a day in our shoes.
The Left Flank wonders why we vote differently from them while at the same time exhibiting the complete refusal to listen to us and what we need that makes us vote differently from them.

And then when we did decide differently from them, when people of color got our choice of candidate in over the choice of white voters for the first time in history, we were posed as stealing it in the places where Latinxs decide elections - Arizona, Nevada, California. Never mind that Sanders' solution in Arizona after everyone stopped paying attention was to join the lawsuit for more polling places that Clinton had already been part of for a year beforehand.

And that narrative of fraudulent voting by Latinxs...who picked up on that? Sanders Progressives laid the inroad for Trump's fraudulent Latinx voters narrative. Sanders Progressives made that path toward eroding my civil rights far easier for Trump to sell. Sanders Progressives championed the exact same thing when Sanders did it that they turned their noses up at when Trump did it. The Sanders wing's consistency of alliance has only amounted to what's good for the Sanders wing, and not for those they'd pretend to be allied to. The Sanders wing damaged us, co-opted a civil rights fight in Arizona to dress in the costume of victimization, and made no attempt to repair the damage they caused after Latinxs were done serving our purpose.

White men didn't get their way, so they said it was stolen. They pointed to people of color as a make-believe culprit because we had exercised our influence. They pretended at the victimization that they had caused others. There is far more similarity from a core element of Sanders supporters to a core element of Trump supporters than people would like to admit.

But whatever, Clinton won, our choice won, and when we asked for the alliance that people of color have been asked to give the choice of white voters for decades on end, the response was for white progressives to think it was beneath them. The thing we had been asked to do in order to hold a coalition together for generations was beneath white Progressives. We've been asked to vote for our second, third, fourth choices so that we can hold the liberal alliance together. The minute we asked white Progressives to do the same thing they've asked us to do, they were insulted. They wouldn't have it. They wouldn't lower themselves to help us the same way they've asked us to do. The gall of us to even ask.

And now our communities are set to be the martyrs the Left Flank will rally behind for a justice they'll pretend they didn't violate in the first place.

They rail against the core of the Democratic Party being "Establishment" when the core that's remaining of the Democratic Party is the only governmental power left that Latinxs, Blacks, and women have in government.
Some ally, to think they earn the right to be trusted to fix anything after breaking all our shit, to think they're the hero to save us after shoving us into the line of fire. That's not our damn savior. That's not anyone we trust. That's not any new revolution - it's the same resistance among so-called allies to an ages-old revolution that we've always faced, ignoring us and costing us dearly and then asking why we don't defer to them or pay respect.
29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gabriel Valdez has something to say (Original Post) Recursion Apr 2017 OP
Come on. Bernie and Hillary are on the same team. sharedvalues Apr 2017 #1
You have that wrong. murielm99 Apr 2017 #2
Because the Democratic team needs to dream bigger sharedvalues Apr 2017 #3
There is nothing constructive about name calling. murielm99 Apr 2017 #7
Maybe you should direct your comments to Bernie. brer cat Apr 2017 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author KittyWampus Apr 2017 #4
Not saying this is a Russian troll, but this is the troll strategy - unfairly malign Bernie/HRC sharedvalues Apr 2017 #6
Excuse me, "Member since February 2017"? Recursion Apr 2017 #8
So again, not a Russian troll, but the Senate transcripts discuss how RT/trolls used this strategy sharedvalues Apr 2017 #9
You seem to consistently confuse analysis and observation with "unfairly malign Bernie/HRC." LanternWaste Apr 2017 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Tanuki Apr 2017 #16
Thanks, I deleted it. KittyWampus Apr 2017 #20
This post is trying to incite division where there is none - Be Careful sharedvalues Apr 2017 #5
PREACH!!! AMEN. THANK YOU. jrthin Apr 2017 #10
Thank Mr. Valdez Recursion Apr 2017 #14
1SBM explained it about the best Warpy Apr 2017 #11
there was no push to the right other than from republicans JI7 Apr 2017 #12
HRC ran LITERALLY the most progressive campaign and platform in history Recursion Apr 2017 #13
Exactly, and if the media had allowed that message to get out Warpy Apr 2017 #17
the message was out. They voted for trump because Clinton embraced diversity JI7 Apr 2017 #21
You are wrong. Broadcast media muted her speeches while they talked over them Warpy Apr 2017 #22
but they didn't mute trump JI7 Apr 2017 #25
No, they hung on every stupid thing he said Warpy Apr 2017 #26
Yep. That was it. Recursion Apr 2017 #23
Actually, there was Warpy Apr 2017 #15
you aren't giving and specifics but talking electoral strategy. white people mostly vote JI7 Apr 2017 #19
Very good read, Recursion. brer cat Apr 2017 #24
Yeah, I know Recursion Apr 2017 #27
still patronizing and condescending..... Good choice of words lunasun Apr 2017 #28

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
1. Come on. Bernie and Hillary are on the same team.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 05:45 PM
Apr 2017

Either would have been FAR better for minorities than the current president.

Bernie's main messaging has been at the white working class, but he also cares about minorities and his policies would help them.

Hillary campaigned at women and more towards liberal professionals than Bernie, and also worked to get minorities. But she cares about the white working class too and her policies would help them.


If you are a progressive that is expressing political anger, your target today should be Trump, not either Dem candidate.

murielm99

(30,717 posts)
2. You have that wrong.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 05:51 PM
Apr 2017

More liberal professionals voted for Bernie. They were white people.

Since dropping out of the Presidential race, Bernie has spent a lot of time criticizing the team you say he is member of. That is not helpful and he needs to stop doing that.

I am talking about what has been happening SINCE the primary, not during it.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
3. Because the Democratic team needs to dream bigger
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:01 PM
Apr 2017

Constructive criticism is how parties improve.

Are you negative on Perez or Ellison when they criticize Democrats for abandoning the 50 state strategy? When they criticize Democrats for poor communication?

Direct negativity at the president, please. Bernie and Hillary are both good for progressives in different ways and we should embrace them.

murielm99

(30,717 posts)
7. There is nothing constructive about name calling.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:11 PM
Apr 2017

Democrats are not feeble and unable to fight back. I see a great deal of fighting back. And, Bernie is not a Democrat.

brer cat

(24,523 posts)
18. Maybe you should direct your comments to Bernie.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:31 PM
Apr 2017

His negativity should be directed at trump not Democrats. Being divisive is not a prescription for unity. By no stretch of the imagination can his bashing be considered "constructive."

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. Excuse me, "Member since February 2017"?
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:12 PM
Apr 2017

Are you really trying to tell me what is and isn't constructive discussion on DU?

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
9. So again, not a Russian troll, but the Senate transcripts discuss how RT/trolls used this strategy
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:16 PM
Apr 2017

I'll say that Bernie, like Hillary, has embraced many Americans of all races and creeds.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
29. You seem to consistently confuse analysis and observation with "unfairly malign Bernie/HRC."
Mon Apr 10, 2017, 02:28 PM
Apr 2017

You seem to consistently confuse analysis and observation with "unfairly malign Bernie/HRC."

We *need* insightful and objective criticism within the party to overcome our weaknesses. And who is or is not the current President neither denies nor minimizes that need.

Response to KittyWampus (Reply #4)

jrthin

(4,834 posts)
10. PREACH!!! AMEN. THANK YOU.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:25 PM
Apr 2017

You have expressed exactly how I've felt, but was unable to verbalize the way you have. Thank you.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. Thank Mr. Valdez
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:21 PM
Apr 2017

I simply saw it off Ms. Solnit's repost of it. But this is a so-much-more articulate version of what I've been screaming for a year now.

Warpy

(111,143 posts)
11. 1SBM explained it about the best
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 06:59 PM
Apr 2017

about how incremental change meant something completely different to black folks than it did to white folks and the appeal of stability over sweeping change. He explained it well enough that even I got it.

I could explain why i supported Sanders, that a good showing would nudge the party slightly to the left against the 40 year push to the right, but I didn't speak out against Clinton, since I was pretty sure she'd be the nominee if Biden didn't run. He didn't, she was, and she got my vote, along with a majority of 3 million over the Dolt's tally.

I honestly have no idea why this fight is still being fought. The primary has been over for a long time. We did the best we could for our candidate and only the anachronistic EC that didn't do its job gave Dolt the win.

I get it, we are all ending up on the same side for different reasons. I just have to wonder at all the posting of articles like this one, accusatory toward the left and seemingly ripping scabs off wounds to enjoy the blood. Driving us apart isn't doing any of us any good.

JI7

(89,240 posts)
12. there was no push to the right other than from republicans
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:13 PM
Apr 2017

Having bill clinton as president moved things to the left. Same with Obama.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
13. HRC ran LITERALLY the most progressive campaign and platform in history
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:20 PM
Apr 2017

$15 minimum wage
Cancelling the TPP (I even disagreed with that one, but she was clear)
Requiring profit-sharing for wage-earners

This was far and away the most progressive campaign and platform of my lifetime, and I'll be surprised if we're anywhere close to that progressive in 2020.

Warpy

(111,143 posts)
17. Exactly, and if the media had allowed that message to get out
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:29 PM
Apr 2017

even Comey might not have had a chance to screw up the election.

We knew what it was because we're all political junkies here. Few other people did.

Warpy

(111,143 posts)
22. You are wrong. Broadcast media muted her speeches while they talked over them
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:43 PM
Apr 2017

Her name was mentioned only in connection with "emails" or "Benghazi."

The message did not get out, not unless people actually attended one of those speeches.

Warpy

(111,143 posts)
26. No, they hung on every stupid thing he said
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 08:00 PM
Apr 2017

like it was written on stone tablets and passed down through the ages. They gave him all the free air time he wanted and more.

Warpy

(111,143 posts)
15. Actually, there was
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:26 PM
Apr 2017

A group of mostly southern conservatives was brought in to counter the Nixon southern strategy by pushing the party to the right. They later got Koch funding and became the core of the DLC, Bill Clinton's group. The organization has since folded but the people were still there.

Because the Republicans got crazier and crazier, the conservatives kept pushing the party to the right.

It was a spectacular failure.

Perez and Ellison have cleaned house. As long as they don't hire them back, I have cautious optimism about the party.

JI7

(89,240 posts)
19. you aren't giving and specifics but talking electoral strategy. white people mostly vote
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:32 PM
Apr 2017

conservative so they had to appeal to them to win.

With changing demographics this isn't as important .

Actual presidency of Clinton and Obama moved the country to the left .

brer cat

(24,523 posts)
24. Very good read, Recursion.
Sat Apr 8, 2017, 07:45 PM
Apr 2017

Maybe some day white Progressives will open their ears and lose some of the tone-deafness. But I'm not going to hold my breath; too many are still patronizing and condescending.

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