“Black racism is a myth…"

[MrScorpio]

“Black racism is a myth created by whites to ease their guilt feelings. As long as whites can be assured that blacks are racists, they can find reasons to justify their own oppression of’ black people.”

— James H. Cone Black Theology and Black Power
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Theology-Power-James-Cone/dp/1570751579

[Xipe Totec]

1. I wish it was a myth, but it isn't

We all have our black sheep.

[gollygee]

2. There's a goal to define racism

as "mean people being mean" rather than as systems and institutions that give power to a privileged class and take power away from an oppressed class. I think it's because it helps make white people feel like we aren't benefitting from racism and it has nothing to do with us, so we can ignore it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. +1.

People get so hung up on calling racial animus or bigotry 'racism', that they entirely ignore the part of the equation that deals with groups that have or do not have power.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. +1 ...

And that has been where the thoughts of the pre - civil rights studies conflict with modern thought.

So it's no wonder that many (read: Straight white males) cling to antiquated social science ... it allows them to ignore the bigger, truer picture and to be aggrieved.

[dem in texas]

4. Totally not true

I have lived in Southwest Oak Cliff area of Dallas for over 30 years. When we moved here, there were only a few white families. We raised our grandson and sent him to our neighborhood public school. He was the only white child in his class. Some of black class mates called him "turkey" and "honkey". We couldn't let him walk home from school because he was harassed by the older kids. Many of my black neighbors are wonderful people and still live around me. But one of neighbors, a black teacher, wouldn't wave or speak to me and when my grandson went to play with her son, she would say hateful racist things to him.

That said, I ignored it, because assholes come in all colors. I thought it was good experience for my grandson and I would have stepped in if it ever got too much for him to handle, which it did not. When he was in college, he told me that his experience growing up in our neighborhood helped him learn to get along with all types and races of people.

Now my neighborhood is mixture of a little bit of everything and that is good. We have retired people like us, both black and white, young couples, both straight and gay, single people. The one thing we don't have is very many small children, I'd love to see the little kids riding their tricycles down the street again. Young children add so much vitality to a neighborhood. The elementary school my grandson attended is slated for closure because there are not enough youngsters left in adjacent neighborhoods.

[MrScorpio]

5. I direct you to post #2. nt

[gollygee]

6. I don't buy it

I went to a school with a large African American population, and my nickname was "spaghetti girl" because I had long stringy straight blonde hair, and I was tall and skinny with long skinny white arms and legs. But no matter how much I was called that, I always knew that the societal standard of beauty is tall, skinny, with blonde hair and blue eyes, and that I fit it. Nothing any kids at school could say could possibly have changed my awareness (and I'm sure theirs) of that standard of beauty, and so it didn't sting the way mean words of a similar nature to them would.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. +1 ...

But I don't buy it for another reason ... I spend a good amount of time in the company of plenty of Black folks. I have not heard a Black person use the term "honkey" in more tthan 30 years ... except in movies/on tv (where the speech is scripted). One would think that given my social circle, if the term was used ... I would hear it.

No ... honkey is in white folks' head from George Jefferson.

[roguevalley]

7. In Michael Jordan's book he calls himself a racist

because he hated whites growing up.

[MrScorpio]

8. He used the word incorrectly...

He should have said "bigot" instead.

[randys1]

10. Racist = a function of power Bigot = a function of one person's attitudes

White will insist Black can be racist (in America) as long as white is the only one capable of ending racism.

When white no longer has the power to be racist, they will find racism against them at every corner, every turn, racism will then be blamed for absolutely everything they/we fail at.

Let us white folks pray that what comes back to us is not what we deserve.

[roguevalley]

12. I won't argue about it really but I keep it simple. Any hatred of someone

based on the color of their skin, power or no power is racism. It is race/color articulated. It keeps it easier for me. without the color there, no one on either side would be bitching. so its racism for me period. Growing up during segregation/jim crow, I don't want to make that distinction because it lets bigots on both sides cling to a distinction when there isn't one for me on either side of the color divide. IMHO.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. Simple but not consistent with current academia ...

What you are describing is bigotry not racism.

[roguevalley]

19. okay. I don't mind changing with the times. :D

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. And, interestingly ...

I suspect the fears of many that Black folks will reap retribution are largely unfounded and runs counter to the vast majority of situations where Black folks attain positions that would allow them pay back.

[JustAnotherGen]

9. And now there is TEA being dropped

And shade being thrown that he avoids other black people.

You would have to go into some of the off site black oriented discussion forums to find it - but it's out there.

It's being brought up as a side bar because of the colorism debates Lupita N'yongo (sp?) brought up post her Oscar win.

BTW - does it make me racist to say - She shouldn't be held up as a model of beauty to black American girls anymore that Gisele Bundchen should be?

Our genetic make up as a result of slavery and Jim Crow and the accepted rape and sexual abuse of black women even AFTER the civil war makes it nearly impossible for the average black American girl who is a descendant of slaves to ever look like her.

Pointing out obvious truths about America by black Americans - we often get accused of reverse racism or being bigots. Right now Lupita is being used as an "I think she's beautiful so I can't be racist towards black Americans" pawn in the shell game of Race in America.

Will she end up like Michael Jordan?

[roguevalley]

11. I never heard about the light v dark skin bigotry until a movie a

while back. It blows the mind how much energy people expend to find something wrong in another person

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Colorism was a tool to reinforce white supremacy ...

By introducing an unnatural hierarchy among Black folks while keeping whiteness as the standard.

[roguevalley]

18. I will never understand it. Sad all the way around.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. It's easy to understand ...

Divide and conquer.

[roguevalley]

23. true, that

[roguevalley]

20. may I ask you your opinion about detoxifying hate speech?

growing up, the 'n' word was everywhere. I hated it with all my heart and still do. It was NEVER allowed in my family. I remember watching a speech by Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame at my college back in the day when he said you can't be a moral person nor consider yourself one and say the 'n' word.

Then some younger African Americans at the time believed if they said it themselves it detoxifies the word. Even though I sort of got their point, I never agreed because it felt like a stab in the gut to hear it said by anyone. It was dying out among everyday speakers at the time when this happened. You knew who you were talking to then when someone used it, an unrepentant unself aware bigot. What do you think about its use in young circles now? I think it was a mistake myself. I loathe that word. I would be interested in what you think about this issue. I don't think that word can be turned around and denatured. IMHO. Thanks.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. I don't use it

My black nieces and nephews do not use it.

That said - when a rapper who grew up poor, hounded by the police and society uses it to make money - I'm okay with that. If I want to publish a book with that as the title - why not? Why shouldn't I make money off of it if it's been used against mr, my father, my grandfather, etc etc

Just a different way of looking at things.

[roguevalley]

24. thanks. :D It is about listening to others. It is hard to believe you own the

truth when you don't know what others think. Thanks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. I understand the youth's attempt to claim and control the term ...

But I hate the word and do not allow it to be used in my house or in my presence.

But I see PoC (and of the Hip Hop culture) in the same way as I see families using derogatory nicknames for other family. But 1) I don't have to understand it; and, 2). Unless I'm a family member I have no right to use it.

[Hoyt]

26. Last I heard a white winger say, "today Blacks are more racist than whites,"

I just said, "They at least have a hell of a lot more reason to be 'racist' than you and other white wingers."

He was my boss at time, and was later fired for being an ignorant fool. The fool had Rush Limbaugh on in his car when he said that. Hope he's enjoying his miserable life.

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Obviously, the whole thread turns on the definintion of racism.

If you define racism as a product of inequality of power between racially defined subgroups in a given culture, then the relatively powerless cannot be racist.

I believe this to be the correct definition.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. And that definition is ...

Consistent with the state of study.

[Travis_0004]

31. Seems like an odd way to define it for me.

If a white person says they won't hire a black person, just because of the color of their skin, I would argue they are racist. If a black person refuses to hire a white person, just because of the color of their skin, I would argue they are racists.

I would define racism as a hatred or intolerance of other races, so I would argue that there a racist people of all skin types.

[gollygee]

32. There's a difference

In our country, most people who do hiring are white, so a white person in the second scenario has a much better chance of getting a job elsewhere than a black person in the first scenario. People of color have a harder time finding a job at almost every place that hires people to work. It's the societal power that makes a difference, and it's a massive difference.

[Travis_0004]

35. Are you saying its ok for a black person to be rasicst?

I agree with you that most people in this country are white, as are most hiring managers. Its not ok, for a white person to discriminate on the basis of skin color, and its not ok for a black person to discriminate on the basis of skin color. I don't care about percentages, both are wrong.

[gollygee]

36. I'm not saying it's OK, I'm saying it's bigotry

but not racism. Racism = bigotry + societal power. Do you think the options are a) racism or b) ok?

[M0rpheus]

37. I'm just gonna drop this here...

Because you know good and well that we are not advocating bigotry in any way, shape or form.

[BainsBane]

28. bell hooks is currently being compared to O'Reilly in GD

You might want to have a look. The thread in question mentions Beyoncé.

[gollygee]

33. Oh god not another Beyonce thread!

BEYONCE!

[BainsBane]

34. I guess I've missed them

I was told I was among those of a certain group that attacks Beyoncé. Funny, cause I'm pretty sure I've never attacked Beyoncé for what she wears or anything else. I saw a thread in HOF talking about how stupid it was Fox was blaming her for teen pregnancy. I've evidently missed the others.

[JI7]

30. the whole thing is now about being sensitive to whites, but you know what i notice

when it comes to other minorities many of these same ones are just fine using "the chinese" "the indians" "the mexicans" etc when complaining about their jobs being taken away or some other shit .


but you wont see them reconsider the terms they use and in fact they will complain about political correctness if anyone suggested it.

this site is full of people who are resentful towards minorities because it's not fair to complain about racism when there is a black president and oprah dares to be wealthy when there are poor whites.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. It IS a myth!!!!