The best conference? Read it and weep all you pretenders. >>

[El Supremo]

Last edited Tue Jan 3, 2012, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)

The best the SEC can do is 6-3. And if you include TCU and WVU in the Big 12, it could be 9-1.

[madinmaryland]

1. I kept telling Joeybee that the Fighting Amish should join the MAC, but he wouldn't

listen.

[lazarus]

2. If you put TCU and WVU in the Big 12

then you have to put A&M and Mizzou in the SEC.

So, how will the Big 12 do in the Championship Game?

[era veteran]

3. What conference wins National Championship Y E A R L Y ???

SEC Baby!

[a la izquierda]

4. Finally, El, something you and I can agree on.

Cheers to that (except I can't find the stupid emoticons).

[1gobluedem]

5. Big Ten has four wins, not three

Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, and Michigan.

[Lasher]

7. The chart in the OP is through games on January 2.

Michigan's Sugar Bowl victory came on January 3.

Here is a link to the same chart, which has been updated:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/16343161/ns/sports-college_football/

[hughee99]

6. And the WORST the SEC can do is win the National Championship.

The best conference is probably the one with 4 Top Ten teams, with 4 different teams that have won the NC in the last 4 years, and is 7-0 historically in the NC games. On the upside for SEC haters, this will finally be the year the SEC loses in the big game.

Yes, a fine bowl season for the Big 12, but I'm not sure how much you should be bragging about a ranked Texas, Baylor and Oklahoma beating unranked opponents. Ok St. was a good win, though.

[Lasher]

9. The SEC can come in 5th place in bowl wins this year.

That's where they are right now. That's worse than coming in first place in bowl wins and winning the National Championship.

[hughee99]

10. The SEC is going to lose 1 game because they played themselves.

They're going to win a national championship, they played more bowl games against top 25 teams (5 games vs. the big 12's 2 games) than anyone else, and will have won, AT WORST, as many games against top 25 opponents, and this is despite taking their best two teams and rather than having them steamroll two out of conference opponents, they're instead playing each other.

But here's how weak the argument for using bowl winning percentage as the determining factor of conference quality really is...
You have to argue that the MAC, C-USA, and the Big East are better conferences than the SEC. Go ahead, I DARE you to defend that.

[Lasher]

11. The SEC has done quite well this year playing with themselves. In bowl games, not so much.

You said the SEC could do no worse than win the National Championship game. I just pointed out that this is clearly wrong. One of its teams will be the champ but you are bragging about how wonderful the whole conference is. I merely pointed out that the SEC has not been spectacular in their bowl games compared to other conferences. This is not an argument, it is a simple statement of fact.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/16343161/ns/sports-college_football/

Comparing winning percentages is eminently fair. What's unrealistic is using the sheer number of wins like you are trying to do. That's because every conference doesn't have an equal number of chances.

The Big Ten got to play in 10 bowl games this season. C-USA got 5 games. If the Big Ten had won half their games and if C-USA had won every one of theirs, would you claim that both conferences had done just as well in their bowl games? That's just silly.

Flailing around for excuses, you complain that your bowl opponents are too tough for you and that's why you're in fifth place. That's a self-defeating argument. If you're the Best Conference on Earth, it shouldn't matter how your opponents are ranked because you know going into the game that you are superior, right?

And after having bragged about having two SEC teams in the playoff game, you whine about how unfair that is to your conference. Which is it? I agree that's fucked up but it's the SEC that's getting an unfair advantage. Two teams from the same conference should never be in the playoff game. Like I said, you do a good job of playing with yourselves.

The bowl game win percentages show that the SEC gets to play in more bowl games than it should. This point will be emphasized tonight when the overrated Razobacks get their asses handed to them by Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl tonight.

[hughee99]

12. All wins are created equal?

If that's the case, why isn't Boise in a better bowl game? They were as good as anyone in the Big-12.

Conference USA has wins over #22 Penn State (a good win), Nevada who went 7-6 from the WAC, and Florida international who went 8-5 in the sun-belt.

The MAC has wins over Wyoming, Utah ST. and Airforce.

Do you really believe this bolsters your argument? Quality of opponent matters.

Oklahoma State isn't going to the BCS championship game NOT because they lost a game, but because they lost a game to an unranked opponent (again, quality of opponent matters). It's fucked up that Alabama is in the BCS title game, but they are the 2nd best team in the country. There were plenty of opportunities for other teams to take that spot and NONE did, and, yes, it is "unfair" from the standpoint that it drags down conference record because you're guaranteeing exactly 1 win and exactly 1 loss. No matter how good the conference is, no matter how bad the conference is, the result is guaranteed, and therefore irrelevant to any measure of the conference's quality. If two teams in the Ivy League play each other 1000 times, you'll end up with 1000 wins and 1000 loses. Will this give you absolutely any insight at all as to how they compare with any other conference? Of course not, but I guarantee they winning percentage will the .500.

The SEC has played in 6 games so far, which game didn't they "deserve" to be in? The one where the #16 team lost to the #17 team in the country in OT? The one where their 8th best team lost to a Cincinatti team that tied for the Big East Title by a touchdown? One of the ones that they won? Or should Arkansas, LSU or Alabama not be in a bowl game this year?

Look it's not my fault the Big 12 is having all these realignment issues, or that they've only won 2 national championship games in 9 attempts, and you are welcome to lean on whatever statistics you like to try to convince yourself of what you deep down know is not true. In the end SEC is the best conference in the country this year, and has been for quite some time.

[Lasher]

14. Boise didn't get a better bowl game because their schedule is weak.

Yes, quality of opponent does matter. How many out-of-conference games did SEC teams have during the regular season, and how many were quality opponents? You've had your share of easy games.

The bowl games results are, or rather should be the best but not the only indicator of which is the best conference. In them we have a chance of seeing which conference is best - since these are the most probable times when the strongest teams of one conference can fairly go up against the best of another conference. The statistics clearly show that the SEC is in 5th place in this respect. Go ahead and make excuses and pretend it doesn't matter. But please don't tell me that I share your delusion.

And yet you SEC elitists want to ride on the tailskirts of LSU just because they happen to be in the same conference as you. Want to talk teams? Mine is WVU. Which one is yours? Let's compare notes.

Oklahoma State is not playing in the championship game because the system is fixed to favor the SEC. Alabama lost to LSU already. Go ahead and admit it: You think LSU is playing Alabama because the national championsip is owed to the SEC. Why don't you want your best to go up against somebody else's best?

Don't be so afraid. It's just a game.

[hughee99]

16. Alabama is in the BCS championship because they had 1 loss

to the best team in the country... in OVERTIME. OK state didn't get screwed by an "SEC Bias", Ok State had a loss to a bad team. Ok state played 4 ranked teams not counting the bowl, only one of which they won by 2 TD's. Alabama played 5 ranked teams (the lost 1 to LSU in overtime) and beat all of the other 4 by at least 20. Their closest game other than the loss was a 17 point win.

My team is Arkansas, the 3rd best team in the SEC. While I'll admit WVU looked AWESOME in the Orange bowl against the ACC champ, they lost to Louisville (close) and Syracuse (handily), and lost to the SEC champ LSU AT HOME by 26. Arkansas had a slightly better showing AT "Deaf Valley". I'm not sure what notes you think you're going to bring to the table but I don't believe they can overcome a Syracuse loss. My team lost two games, to the two teams playing for the national championship, both on the road.

As far as "out of conference" games go, WVU got throttled at home by LSU (an SEC team), and played Marshall, Norfolk St. and Bowling Green, so I'm not sure what kind of point you think you're making there. You've had your share of easy games as well. As far as strength of schedule goes, WVU played 3 ranked opponents, 1 out of conference and another in a bowl. LSU played 9 ranked teams (including the bowl), 2 out of conference. Alabama played 6 ranked teams (one out of conference, including the bowl). Arkansas played 6 ranked teams (one out of conference and another in a bowl).

If you want the best against the best, you're going to get it in the BCS championship. Somebody else's "best" isn't as good as the SEC's second best. Also, a nice win by the 3rd best SEC team over the 2nd best Big 12 team. Congrats to the Hogs, but K-State did play a good game.

[Lasher]

17. Congrats to Arkansas on the win in the Cotton Bowl.

You're right, that was a good game. Now there are four teams that are tied for first place in this season's bowl game winning percentage but the SEC is not one of them. Your conference is still in fifth place and will end up 6-3 and .667.

There are two bowl games left to play besides the National Championship game: The Compass Bowl today and and GoDaddy.com tomorrow. The Compass Bowl features Pittsburgh (Big East) against Southern Methodist (C-USA). After this game one of these conferences will go into first place at 4-1 and .800. The loser will drop to 3-2 and .600.

Tomorrow's GoDaddy.com Bowl has Arkansas State (Sun Belt) going against Northern Illinois (MAC). An Arkansas State win puts the Sun Belt at 2-1 and .667. A Northern Illinois win puts the MAC at 4-1 and .800 - tied for first place with the winner of today's game.

When you're comparing conferences, bowl winning percentages should be considered. But they are not the only thing that matters.

I offered to compare teams because one team does not make a conference. Sure, it makes you look good if the national champ is in your conference but that doesn't make every single one of your teams just as great.

Yes, we got our asses kicked by LSU. Considering our overall shitty regular season I felt good about scoring more points against them than any other team but one, Northwestern State. And we had a couple of out-of-conference pushovers but Marshall wasn't one of them. They're for real. Watch out for them to keep getting better. They won their bowl game this year.

Our biggest problem was that our offense didn't ever play four whole quarters until the Orange Bowl game where we finally saw its full potential. Another big weakness was that our kickers sucked bigtime. We clawed our way to the top of the Big East in 3 tough final wins because we wouldn't quit.

I agree, Arkansas had a better regular season and they won the Cotton Bowl game. That gets respect.

[hughee99]

18. Winning percentage shouldn't be outright dismissed

but it is a SMALL factor. You mentioned earlier how the SEC got 9 bowl games and that gives them an advantage if you're counting raw wins, but this discounts the fact that they had 9 teams good enough to be considered for a bowl. Go look at C-USA, the MAC or Sunbelt and tell me they could put 9 teams in a bowl and have the same winning percentage they do now. If you want to discuss the overall strength of a conference, how can this possibly not be a factor. You have a questionable argument on the Big 12 (I don't buy it, but you can include some stats and exclude others to make that point). The fact that you're actually arguing that these smaller conferences are better than the SEC is where your argument really falls apart.

[Lasher]

19. I never said these smaller conferences are better than the SEC.

This discussion started out when you said the SEC can do no worse than win the national championship. I pointed out that they as a conference could do better in their bowl winning percentage - it is a factor.

Further, this statistic can indicate that bowl games are not being allocated based on which teams are good enough to be considered. Look at the Big Ten, which I cited before. Every single one of their 10 teams got to play in a bowl game. But only four of them were good enough to win. Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture?

Consider the Rose Bowl: Big 10 vs. Pac-12. Fiesta Bowl: Big 12 vs. at-large. Sugar Bowl: SEC vs. at-large. (You are aware of the Sugar Bowl SEC exception this year) Orange Bowl: ACC vs. at-large. And on it goes with the rest of the bowl games.

This is not a setup to ensure the best teams play in the most important bowl games. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. That is a point I was trying to make.

I love college football the way it is but I would much rather see a playoff like we have in college basketball. That's not going to happen in my lifetime because there are entrenched interests who very much prefer the status quo.

But it's been a great season, don't you think? Good luck next season but if you go up against the Mountaineers in a bowl game we will hand your asses to you.

[hughee99]

20. Consider this, the big 10 teams were bowl eligible.

the smaller conferences didn't even have that many bowl eligible teams. I'm not saying the bowl system is good or that the right teams get the right bowls, but you could take the 8th or 9th or maybe 10th best team in some conferences and find a bowl eligible opponent that would be a good game. Take the 8th or 9th or 10th best team in C-USA or one of the other smaller divisions (who wouldn't even be bowl eligible) and find a bowl eligible team they could beat. You can't because you're now talking about a team that finished very bad AND with a weak schedule.

I'll give you this, the conference could have done better with bowl winning percentage, but an OT loss to #17 in the country and a 7 point loss to a team that tied for the best record in the big east by the 8th best team in the SEC isn't nearly enough to make the case that the Big 12 is better than the SEC.

Good luck next year in the Big 12, and if WVU plays the SEC next year in a bowl game, I'll bet avatars with you, even if you draw the Maaco bowl against Vandy. I think you'll find it a lot harder to get a BCS game in the big 12 than in the Big East, though. A team that can't play 4 quarters, play consistent, or hell, a team that loses 3 games doesn't win the big-12 often, WVU will have to step up it's game next year.

[Lasher]

21. LOL WVU beat the SEC champion in the 2006 Sugar Bowl.

Last edited Sun Jan 8, 2012, 01:32 PM - Edit history (2)

But that was then and this is now. WVU is going to be awesome next year after having taken a season to get our act together with a new coach but you're right, the Big 12 is tougher than the Big East. But we'll do fine there. After all, we beat the Big 12 champ in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl.

[hughee99]

23. Do you have that on VHS?

Jeez, that was 6 years ago. If I remember right, that was back in the good old Rich-Rod days, and it was the last time the SEC didn't play for a National Championship. I also remember WVU throttling the Oklahoma in a BCS bowl a few years later. If you go undefeated in the Big 12 next year, you'll play for the national championship, so your fate is in your own hands.

[Lasher]

24. No but I saved a picture or two.

I can't believe an SEC zealot is preaching to me about citing a 6 year old statistic. You guys crow about wins from the leather helmet days like it was just yesterday.

[hughee99]

25. I don't remember the leather helmet days,

they were outlawed before I was born. In any case I wouldn't have been an SEC guy back then, I would have been an SWC fan back then talking about how great Arkansas and the Texas teams were.

At the time the BCS started, there was some relative parity among leagues, that parity has disappeared and the SEC has dominated over the last 5 years. I like the realignments because I'd like to be able to have a legitimate debate over who the best team in the country is and have people from all over with a valid argument to make. I'm tired of listening to people from the Big 10 and Pac 10 talk about how their champ is really the best team in the country. I really have far less of an issue with the Big 12 (who I think is the second best conference) than I do with those two grossly overrated conferences.

[Telly Savalas]

26. There's no national champion in college football

The BCS picks a couple of random (albeit good) teams and makes it the last college game of the season. Calling such a structure a championship belittles the concept of a championship.

[lazarus]

27. as opposed to the pre-BCS days

when the AP would pick a team at random and call it national champion.

Or a playoff, when 8 teams, or 4, or 16, or 64, or however many, are randomly chosen and made to play random games until one is left.

[hughee99]

8. One other thing, if you include TCU and WVU in the big 12,

why wouldn't you include Texas A&M and Mizzou in the SEC?

The SEC would be, at best 8-3 with a national championship, the Big 12 would be, at best, 7-1 without one.

[maximusveritas]

13. Every year this idiotic argument gets made

For one, the SEC is putting its top 2 teams in the title game, it's usually putting it's #3 team against the #1 team from another conference and so on down the line. Secondly, would you seriously argue that the MAC is a better conference that the SEC? That's what you're doing if you're just going by simple win-loss records in bowl games. It's almost below idiotic.

[El Supremo]

15. What? Did the SEC never have the most bowl game win percentage?

[Auggie]

22. The MAC -- tied for second?