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Related: About this forumIllegal bat continues Lions' proud tradition of getting hosed by the NFL rulebook
The Lions were robbed of a chance to redeem themselves after Calvin Johnson fumbled at the goal line while trying to score what would have been a late go-ahead touchdown against the Seahawks on Monday night. As Johnson's fumble bounced towards the back of the end zone, linebacker K.J. Wright intentionally batted the ball out of bounds, which is a clear penalty ... except the referees didn't call it.
If they had, the Lions would have regained possession at the half-yard line after the penalty was accessed. The Lions started the possession at the complete opposite end of the field -- at their own 9-yard line -- and marched up the field thanks to a masterful bit of passing by Matthew Stafford, only to have a chance at a season-saving win snatched away.
It's bad enough that the no-call helped solidify Detroit as the NFL's only remaining winless team. Even worse is the fact that this isn't the first time the Lions have fallen victim to an arcane section of the league rule book. Far from it.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/10/6/9460281/lions-illegal-bat-nfl-rules-calvin-johnson-rule-cowboys-playoff-jim-schwartz
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hughee99
(16,113 posts)it wasn't "overt" (instead of just admitting they didn't know the rule at the time and fucked up). Even they had to eventually admit there's no way to view that video and see it as anything other than completely intentional.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Just admit you effed up already.
1gobluedem
(6,664 posts)"For what it's worth, Wright admitted after the game to intentionally batting the ball out of the end zone, basically ending any debate whether Detroit should have gotten the ball back. (And there seems to be very little debate as it is.)
"I wanted to just knock it out of bounds and not try to catch it and fumble it," Wright said."
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2015/10/head_of_nfl_officiating_admits.html#incart_most-read_
hughee99
(16,113 posts)How the NFL thought, even for a second, that they could get away with suggesting it wasn't is disturbing.
ProfessorGAC
(64,847 posts)Is that the real truth is that the ref didn't know the rule. That's the only way he doesn't see clear intent. The guy even admitted he did it on purpose.
bluedigger
(17,085 posts)Seattle should schedule all their games for Monday nights. Seems to work well for them.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Almost.
Seattle does seem to get the calls, don't they.
bluedigger
(17,085 posts)They are a loyal fan base, and deserve better, both from their team and the league.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)They haven't had much to cheer about lately.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)...and therefor a valid non-call. Had the Seattle player not touched it the ball would have gone across the end line on it's own. There was no Lions player anywhere near it who could have recovered it for a touchdown. A Seahawk player could have recovered it for a Lions safety, but why would he do that? The ball had plenty of momentum to roll on out of the end zone without being touched.
I think that's what the ref was trying to say by it not being "overt," was that it was without any actual effect. Sort of the same principle as not calling pass interference when the pass was not catchable.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)I just hope the outcome does not affect either team's play-off chances either way, that Seattle gets in because of this win, or Detroit doesn't because of the loss.
bluedigger
(17,085 posts)Scenario Seattle WinExp
Megatron TD without fumble 15.7%
Fumble with correctly called batting penalty 19.3%
Fumble with uncalled penalty, change of possession 89.5%
The fumble combined with a touchback and change of possession improved Seattle’s chances of winning by 73.8 percentage points. The blown call alone improved Seattle’s chances by 70.2 percentage points. Expressed differently, the decision by the back judge to keep the flag in his pocket was worth 0.70 wins to the Seahawks.
To put that in context, consider what ESPN’s Football Power Index said about Tom Brady’s four-game suspension before it was overturned. FPI calculated that the total drop-off between Brady and backup Jimmy Garoppolo would have amounted to 0.78 wins over the first quarter of the season. That’s not per game. That’s the total figure. The officials gifting the Seahawks possession of the football at the end of this game is only a tiny bit less significant than it was for the Patriots to get Brady back for the first four games of 2015.
The bad call masks how incredible Chancellor’s forced fumble actually was. It saved the Seahawks from dropping to 1-3 ahead of a trip to Cincinnati, where they’re currently listed as one-point underdogs. A loss there and the Seahawks would have started their season a lowly 1-4. Just nine teams since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970 have started their season 1-4 and made it to the postseason, most recently Tim Tebow’s 2011 Broncos. In this scenario, the Seahawks would likely have been three games behind the Cardinals with 11 games to go; that wouldn’t have been insurmountable, but it would have left Seattle with a mountain to climb to claim the NFC West.
Instead, the call pushed Detroit’s season closer to the brink. The Lions have slightly more hope than you might expect for a team that’s 0-4, but their chances are still remarkably slim. FiveThirtyEight projects that Detroit has a 10 percent chance of making the playoffs, with a 3 percent chance of overcoming what is already a four-game deficit behind the Packers in the NFC North. Those figures have fallen fast for the Lions, who FiveThirtyEight said had a 43 percent chance of making the playoffs before the season. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-the-stars-and-stripes-saved-seattle/
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Have you ever seen a holding, illegal formation, offsides, or too many men on the field penalty flag picked up because it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the play? Maybe the ball would have gone out on it's own, maybe it could have bounced and stayed in play, or maybe a player could have come along and grabbed it. The push out of bounds prevented any of that from being possible. I don't think the ref knew the rule at the time he made the call, and didn't want to admit it.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)Holding, illegal formation, offsides, or too many men on the field all have an inherent ability to affect the play. A ball tumbling toward the end line with no offensive player close enough to prevent it from doing so is an entirely different issue.
"maybe it could have bounced and stayed in play" Not a chance. The ball was bouncing toward the end line. When the Seattle player touched it the ball had already travelled eight yards and had bounced waist high in motion toward the end line. In fact, his hand was well above his waist when he touched it. The next time the ball hit the ground, had it remained untouched, it was going to do so outside the field of play.
"maybe a player could have come along and grabbed it." By which I assume you mean a Detroit player. Not a chance of a snowball in Hades. There was no Detroit player within ten yards of the ball.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Call the other day. The offense snapped the ball while a player was sprinting off the field. He didn't make it and the offense got the call. The player had zero affect on the play, but the call was made. You can, under certain circumstances, see that on any of the other penalties I've mentioned. There's a rule specifically for what the player did, even the nfl has since admitted they blew the call, and at no point has any ref or league official suggested that "wouldn't have affected the play" would have been a valid reason not to make the call.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)I hate this call. I hate the offense that snaps the ball deliberately to get the free five yards, and I hate the ref who blows the whistle and throws the flag. There is absolutely no valid reason to call this penalty, and the quarterback and official should be ashamed with themselves.
trumad
(41,692 posts)
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Tom Brady is a fucking cheater.
