Religion
Related: About this forumObama's First Meeting with the Pope Went Swimmingly
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DANIELLE WIENER-BRONNER
President Barack Obama and Pope Francis met today for the first time, speaking in private for nearly an hour on inequality, immigration, and not-abortion, presumably.
The Catholic Church has been at odds with the White House over Obama's insistence on including birth control coverage in the Affordable Care Act, among other things, but analysts said they expected the meeting to strengthen the relationship between Washington and the Church by focusing on common interests.
CNN reports the meeting was "a reset of sorts" between Obama and leaders of the church. "The goal: focus on areas where two of the world's most influential men agree and gently tread ground where they differ," CNN writes. Areas of agreement include, according to a White House statement, a "shared commitment to fighting poverty and growing inequality." The touchier topics would be gay marriage and birth control.
Still, Vatican officials said that the pope almost certainly shared his view on the Affordable Care Act with the president during the visit.
more
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/03/obama-meets-the-pope-first-time/359701/
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)As an unbeliever, why should this man's views on contraception impact my life and my choices? Why should his views be entertained by our president or given weight over my own when creating our laws? Admittedly I am having a very difficult time getting past my anger response. This does make me furious.
rug
(82,333 posts)The fact is the Pope is a world leader.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)He's a world leader because politicians give that credence.
rug
(82,333 posts)You have a peculiar view of leadership.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)thereof. Because you are comfortable with this tradition does not justify that tradition. Far too much power granted to one world denomination.
rug
(82,333 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)With his visit to Vatican City, Mr. Obama continues the tradition of presidential meetings with the pope that began with the 28th president of the United States.
rug
(82,333 posts)And the reason the question is hypothetical is that you can see in the difference between the two men what constitutes leadership suitable to the attention of the President.
There are solid reasons for the visit. To ignore the facts is naivete in service to prejudgment.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)This meeting with the pope is a different flavor with more gravitas than, say Bush's meeting with Billy Graham. Obama isn't Catholic. Neither am I. What, in your opinion makes these sort of meetings a good thing?
It is exactly the official flavor of the thing and everything that implies that galls me. As I said, my anger response is strong.
rug
(82,333 posts)He is a force for good on more issues that are compatible with Obama's goals than there are in opposition. The institution he leads has been a political player for centuries. In the scheme of things, the country is far better off dealing with the likes of the Pope or the Dalai Lama than the military contractors they usually listen to behind closed doors.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Why should this man get a special audience with our president? Why does his church have a special seat at the UN?
Many people will say it's because he represents a billion Catholics. But then those same people will turn around and tell you that this man doesn't speak for all Catholics, that they don't hold the views of the church he leads. Hypocrisy and double standards certainly abound.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Non-member States
Non-member States having received a standing invitation to participate as observers in the sessions and the work of the General Assembly and maintaining permanent observer missions at Headquarters.
Holy See
Permanent Observer of Mission of the Holy See to the United Nations
25 East 39th Street, New York, NY 10016-0903
Telephone: (212) 370-7885
State of Palestine
Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations
115 East 65th Street, New York, NY 10021
Telephone: (212) 288-8500
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Let alone a church that actively opposes many human rights around the world.
And if you honestly think the Vatican and Palestinians are equivalent situations, we really have nothing to discuss here.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Both were provided permanent observer status by UN resolutions.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)As far as the human rights records of UN voting member states, take a look at the membership. Really runs the gamut.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)There are some nasty nations out there. But they aren't churches who have a bogus pseudo-nation status. Good luck with your research!
pinto
(106,886 posts)I get your point about a church bureaucracy basically being a state of its own. In UN terms I don't see that it's a big deal. They are observers, no voting rights, no say in UN resolutions, etc.
Yeah they can hob nob with other representatives and make their point of view known. Yet, they have a much larger megaphone on the world stage - the pope. This one seems open to some change within that hidebound institution.
We should all welcome that, imo. And see what develops. My point of view isn't a blanket religion / anti religion one. Mine is more one of supporting change with what exists. A harm reduction approach in other terms.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I assume you didn't mean to imply that my position is a blanket "anti-religion" one, since that would be very rude and presumptuous of you. But again thanks for documenting the established facts that aren't being disputed by anyone!
pinto
(106,886 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)It was really weird.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)No Vested Interest
(5,156 posts)These are mature, sophisticated men used to the intricacies of diplomacy & civility.
(I realize your statement is rhetorical - no offense intended by you - or me.)
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And be called mature?
The Pope is pretty stupid and immature in a lot of his beliefs, not to mention misogynist and bigoted.
No Vested Interest
(5,156 posts)experience rudeness and crankiness in my space.
Ignore works better for me when crankiness intrudes.
No see it, no response necessary.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)While I'm all for a spirited debate, there is a limit. Everyone has there own line.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)Discuss the most popular Catholic beliefs while ignoring the least popular ones, and somehow try to tackle poverty while also treating women as second class and denying them contraceptives.
Man, religion is fucked up.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)sticks their head in the sand about is that all of the church's supposed devotion to fighting poverty is empty and hollow as long as they oppose letting women have access to artificial contraception. There is no better tool for fighting poverty than giving women control over how many children they have, and when.
rug
(82,333 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)They do "froth and snarl" don't they.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Confirmed by another post I'll never see..