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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:13 AM Mar 2014

Obama's First Meeting with the Pope Went Swimmingly

This article/OP has been entered in the Religion Forum


DANIELLE WIENER-BRONNER

President Barack Obama and Pope Francis met today for the first time, speaking in private for nearly an hour on inequality, immigration, and not-abortion, presumably.

The Catholic Church has been at odds with the White House over Obama's insistence on including birth control coverage in the Affordable Care Act, among other things, but analysts said they expected the meeting to strengthen the relationship between Washington and the Church by focusing on common interests.

CNN reports the meeting was "a reset of sorts" between Obama and leaders of the church. "The goal: focus on areas where two of the world's most influential men agree and gently tread ground where they differ," CNN writes. Areas of agreement include, according to a White House statement, a "shared commitment to fighting poverty and growing inequality." The touchier topics would be gay marriage and birth control.

Still, Vatican officials said that the pope almost certainly shared his view on the Affordable Care Act with the president during the visit.

more
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/03/obama-meets-the-pope-first-time/359701/
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Obama's First Meeting with the Pope Went Swimmingly (Original Post) DonViejo Mar 2014 OP
I have a really hard time with this. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #1
I had a hard time with the previous President listening to Tony Blair. rug Mar 2014 #3
The pope is a religious leader. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #4
He's a religious and a world leader. Obama is a national and a world leader. rug Mar 2014 #6
I have a peculiar view of one religion being given political precedent of other religions or lack LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #7
Let me ask you this. How would you feel about Obama meeting with David Silverman? rug Mar 2014 #10
Answer: he won't. Moreover, if he did it would be a historical blip. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #12
That's not an answer. rug Mar 2014 #14
What are the solid reasons, in your view? LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #15
He has tremendous global influence both on governments and individuals. rug Mar 2014 #22
He is a world leader because he is the Head of State the Vatican. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #18
You aren't alone. trotsky Mar 2014 #5
UN, Non-member States pinto Mar 2014 #8
Sorry, I don't support the notion of a church having a special seat at the UN. trotsky Mar 2014 #9
UN's call, not mine. pinto Mar 2014 #11
Thanks for your dutiful reporting of the facts already known! trotsky Mar 2014 #13
You're welcome. Palestine as an observer state was news to me. Thought they had a regular seat. pinto Mar 2014 #16
It sure does! trotsky Mar 2014 #17
Vatican City still has a city state status for some reason. Lots of Italian cities did at one time. pinto Mar 2014 #19
Thanks for stating your position! trotsky Mar 2014 #24
Didn't mean to be rude. Sorry if it came off that way. Yeah, that's my developing position. pinto Mar 2014 #25
I had this picture in my head of Obama and the Pope swimming together. cbayer Mar 2014 #2
Glad it went well. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #20
How could it go otherwise? No Vested Interest Mar 2014 #21
That true. Neither are hot heads so I expected it to go well. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #23
Can a person believe the devil is behind gay marriage... MellowDem Mar 2014 #26
Civility is important in my world. Have no need to set myself up to No Vested Interest Mar 2014 #28
I'm with you on that. cbayer Mar 2014 #32
That's the ticket... MellowDem Mar 2014 #27
Yes, another thing every Catholic and apologist on this board skepticscott Mar 2014 #29
No, it's more a thing that gets every Catholic basher in this room frothing and snarling. rug Mar 2014 #30
You're in good form this morning my friend Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #31
It appears I was right skepticscott Mar 2014 #33

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
1. I have a really hard time with this.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:26 PM
Mar 2014

As an unbeliever, why should this man's views on contraception impact my life and my choices? Why should his views be entertained by our president or given weight over my own when creating our laws? Admittedly I am having a very difficult time getting past my anger response. This does make me furious.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
3. I had a hard time with the previous President listening to Tony Blair.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:29 PM
Mar 2014

The fact is the Pope is a world leader.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. He's a religious and a world leader. Obama is a national and a world leader.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:37 PM
Mar 2014

You have a peculiar view of leadership.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
7. I have a peculiar view of one religion being given political precedent of other religions or lack
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:41 PM
Mar 2014

thereof. Because you are comfortable with this tradition does not justify that tradition. Far too much power granted to one world denomination.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
12. Answer: he won't. Moreover, if he did it would be a historical blip.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:49 PM
Mar 2014
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/history-presidential-visits-pope/
With his visit to Vatican City, Mr. Obama continues the tradition of presidential meetings with the pope that began with the 28th president of the United States.
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
14. That's not an answer.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:52 PM
Mar 2014

And the reason the question is hypothetical is that you can see in the difference between the two men what constitutes leadership suitable to the attention of the President.

There are solid reasons for the visit. To ignore the facts is naivete in service to prejudgment.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
15. What are the solid reasons, in your view?
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:58 PM
Mar 2014

This meeting with the pope is a different flavor with more gravitas than, say Bush's meeting with Billy Graham. Obama isn't Catholic. Neither am I. What, in your opinion makes these sort of meetings a good thing?

It is exactly the official flavor of the thing and everything that implies that galls me. As I said, my anger response is strong.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
22. He has tremendous global influence both on governments and individuals.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:37 PM
Mar 2014

He is a force for good on more issues that are compatible with Obama's goals than there are in opposition. The institution he leads has been a political player for centuries. In the scheme of things, the country is far better off dealing with the likes of the Pope or the Dalai Lama than the military contractors they usually listen to behind closed doors.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
5. You aren't alone.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:32 PM
Mar 2014

Why should this man get a special audience with our president? Why does his church have a special seat at the UN?

Many people will say it's because he represents a billion Catholics. But then those same people will turn around and tell you that this man doesn't speak for all Catholics, that they don't hold the views of the church he leads. Hypocrisy and double standards certainly abound.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
8. UN, Non-member States
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:41 PM
Mar 2014

Non-member States

Non-member States having received a standing invitation to participate as observers in the sessions and the work of the General Assembly and maintaining permanent observer missions at Headquarters.

Holy See
Permanent Observer of Mission of the Holy See to the United Nations
25 East 39th Street, New York, NY 10016-0903
Telephone: (212) 370-7885

State of Palestine
Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations
115 East 65th Street, New York, NY 10021
Telephone: (212) 288-8500



trotsky

(49,533 posts)
9. Sorry, I don't support the notion of a church having a special seat at the UN.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:43 PM
Mar 2014

Let alone a church that actively opposes many human rights around the world.

And if you honestly think the Vatican and Palestinians are equivalent situations, we really have nothing to discuss here.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
16. You're welcome. Palestine as an observer state was news to me. Thought they had a regular seat.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:59 PM
Mar 2014

As far as the human rights records of UN voting member states, take a look at the membership. Really runs the gamut.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
17. It sure does!
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:02 PM
Mar 2014

There are some nasty nations out there. But they aren't churches who have a bogus pseudo-nation status. Good luck with your research!

pinto

(106,886 posts)
19. Vatican City still has a city state status for some reason. Lots of Italian cities did at one time.
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:22 PM
Mar 2014

I get your point about a church bureaucracy basically being a state of its own. In UN terms I don't see that it's a big deal. They are observers, no voting rights, no say in UN resolutions, etc.

Yeah they can hob nob with other representatives and make their point of view known. Yet, they have a much larger megaphone on the world stage - the pope. This one seems open to some change within that hidebound institution.

We should all welcome that, imo. And see what develops. My point of view isn't a blanket religion / anti religion one. Mine is more one of supporting change with what exists. A harm reduction approach in other terms.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
24. Thanks for stating your position!
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:43 PM
Mar 2014

I assume you didn't mean to imply that my position is a blanket "anti-religion" one, since that would be very rude and presumptuous of you. But again thanks for documenting the established facts that aren't being disputed by anyone!

No Vested Interest

(5,156 posts)
21. How could it go otherwise?
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:35 PM
Mar 2014

These are mature, sophisticated men used to the intricacies of diplomacy & civility.
(I realize your statement is rhetorical - no offense intended by you - or me.)

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
26. Can a person believe the devil is behind gay marriage...
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:57 PM
Mar 2014

And be called mature?

The Pope is pretty stupid and immature in a lot of his beliefs, not to mention misogynist and bigoted.

No Vested Interest

(5,156 posts)
28. Civility is important in my world. Have no need to set myself up to
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:43 AM
Mar 2014

experience rudeness and crankiness in my space.
Ignore works better for me when crankiness intrudes.
No see it, no response necessary.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
32. I'm with you on that.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:36 AM
Mar 2014

While I'm all for a spirited debate, there is a limit. Everyone has there own line.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
27. That's the ticket...
Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:58 PM
Mar 2014

Discuss the most popular Catholic beliefs while ignoring the least popular ones, and somehow try to tackle poverty while also treating women as second class and denying them contraceptives.

Man, religion is fucked up.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
29. Yes, another thing every Catholic and apologist on this board
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:36 AM
Mar 2014

sticks their head in the sand about is that all of the church's supposed devotion to fighting poverty is empty and hollow as long as they oppose letting women have access to artificial contraception. There is no better tool for fighting poverty than giving women control over how many children they have, and when.

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